I’m going to plant apple trees

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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:13 pm

Lockdown wrote:I’ve been reading and watching videos as I get time, and it’s surprising how complex it is.

For now I think I’m going to buy specific trees so I start with a good base and know exactly what they are and when they’re suppose to drop. However I’m getting mildly obsessed with the idea of starting my own rootstock and grafting my own trees. I get enjoyment out of doing things on my own from start to finish.

To give everyone an idea of how green I am, I had to look up the specific definitions of rootstock and scion. So you order a 5’ apple tree… is that deemed rootstock? I didn’t know. ;) and I had no clue what scion was.

The main thing I need to research now is the best way for me to start my own rootstock. I read that the type of rootstock effects the size of your grafted tree. I do know two trees I’d like to graft from. My neighbors have an apple tree that is LOADED every year. Then I want to graft from the crabapple at the sugar patch as well.

I knew that when you grow an apple tree from seed you don’t get an exact match to the parent tree. But I’m curious if I can grow my rootstock from seed and graft on to it. The thing I like most is apple trees appear to grow quite vigorously.

I have a feeling this thread is going to last for years and years…

Give me a call. Lots of your questions can be quickly answered that way but if you like doing the research yourself have at it.

I would say there are 3 main rootstocks you want to consider for deer. B118 (I love this one), Dolgo & MM111. B118 & MM111 are reproduced by "stooling". Dolgo by seed.

Also, it's important to realize that apples don't usually drop when they ripen so don't assume the ripening date is when they drop. It may take weeks or months before they drop. Or they may even rot on the tree. Some can drop right before they ripen. Ripening dates also vary on where you live compared to where the nursery giving the ripening dates is located.

There are a lot of things to know.

Dunstan chestnuts were mentioned earlier. They are good but there are better tasting, more cold tolerant chestnuts than Dunstan. Their claim to be part American chestnut is a joke. Genetic testing showed they were something like 0.03% American chestnut. Or maybe it was a little more than that but it is a joke. They are also seedlings. Not grafted, so drop times will vary.


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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby Lockdown » Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:49 am

DEERSLAYER wrote:
Lockdown wrote:I’ve been reading and watching videos as I get time, and it’s surprising how complex it is.

For now I think I’m going to buy specific trees so I start with a good base and know exactly what they are and when they’re suppose to drop. However I’m getting mildly obsessed with the idea of starting my own rootstock and grafting my own trees. I get enjoyment out of doing things on my own from start to finish.

To give everyone an idea of how green I am, I had to look up the specific definitions of rootstock and scion. So you order a 5’ apple tree… is that deemed rootstock? I didn’t know. ;) and I had no clue what scion was.

The main thing I need to research now is the best way for me to start my own rootstock. I read that the type of rootstock effects the size of your grafted tree. I do know two trees I’d like to graft from. My neighbors have an apple tree that is LOADED every year. Then I want to graft from the crabapple at the sugar patch as well.

I knew that when you grow an apple tree from seed you don’t get an exact match to the parent tree. But I’m curious if I can grow my rootstock from seed and graft on to it. The thing I like most is apple trees appear to grow quite vigorously.

I have a feeling this thread is going to last for years and years…

Give me a call. Lots of your questions can be quickly answered that way but if you like doing the research yourself have at it.

I would say there are 3 main rootstocks you want to consider for deer. B118 (I love this one), Dolgo & MM111. B118 & MM111 are reproduced by "stooling". Dolgo by seed.

Also, it's important to realize that apples don't usually drop when they ripen so don't assume the ripening date is when they drop. It may take weeks or months before they drop. Or they may even rot on the tree. Some can drop right before they ripen. Ripening dates also vary on where you live compared to where the nursery giving the ripening dates is located.

There are a lot of things to know.

Dunstan chestnuts were mentioned earlier. They are good but there are better tasting, more cold tolerant chestnuts than Dunstan. Their claim to be part American chestnut is a joke. Genetic testing showed they were something like 0.03% American chestnut. Or maybe it was a little more than that but it is a joke. They are also seedlings. Not grafted, so drop times will vary.


Thanks Lance. Will definitely give you a call at some point!
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby mike_mc » Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:02 am

Check out if your county has a tree program. An example from my county.
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:57 am

DEERSLAYER wrote:Give me a call. Lots of your questions can be quickly answered that way but if you like doing the research yourself have at it.

I would say there are 3 main rootstocks you want to consider for deer. B118 (I love this one), Dolgo & MM111. B118 & MM111 are reproduced by "stooling". Dolgo by seed.

Also, it's important to realize that apples don't usually drop when they ripen so don't assume the ripening date is when they drop. It may take weeks or months before they drop. Or they may even rot on the tree. Some can drop right before they ripen. Ripening dates also vary on where you live compared to where the nursery giving the ripening dates is located.

There are a lot of things to know.

Dunstan chestnuts were mentioned earlier. They are good but there are better tasting, more cold tolerant chestnuts than Dunstan. Their claim to be part American chestnut is a joke. Genetic testing showed they were something like 0.03% American chestnut. Or maybe it was a little more than that but it is a joke. They are also seedlings. Not grafted, so drop times will vary.

Just to be clear I was referring to different apple varieties acting different ways. I didn't mean to imply you could expect this to happen on the same tree that is one variety.

Something you may want to try once you learn to graft is to graft multiple varieties onto the same tree. This can work out good if you have a spot that doesn't have room for multiple trees.
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby KRONIIK » Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:36 am

I sure don't like the idea of you guys "playing God" what with your grafting up all these Frankenstein trees... :snooty:



Just kidding- I think it's some pretty cool stuff!
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby Ryan549 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:40 am

KRONIIK wrote:I sure don't like the idea of you guys "playing God" what with your grafting up all these Frankenstein trees... :snooty:



Just kidding- I think it's some pretty cool stuff!


That’s the fun of it. Although I have only one tree that has multiple varieties on it, I use it to practice different grafting techniques.
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby hunter_mike » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:10 am

fascinating thread, i don't have anything useful to add but, im subscribed. I've really gotten into trees the past couple years. currently have a bunch of burr oak, black walnut and hazelnut planted in various places on relatives land. Excited to see what happens with them next year.
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby Jmitch » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:42 am

Sounds like you have a pretty good plan so far. I'd probably focus more on crab apples as they can be a little less maintenance than apples for human consumption. Think you are getting some good advice about rootstock as well. Would defiently lean towards a larger tree like a b118 over the smaller semi dwarfs.

I have messed around with grafting and was able to be pretty successful with getting them to take but then most of my grafted trees ended up dieting after I put them in the ground anyway. Honestly would have been money and time ahead to just buy the few trees that I knew I wanted and went that route instead of trying to graft my own.

I have had pretty good success growing a few trees from seed that got from a few local wild apple trees I know of. They are still young at this point (<5 years old) but a few have started fruiting with literally the absolute minimum maintenance you could do. I mean I started these in pots one winter until after frost then planted them in their final spot with a small fence. I hand pull weeds around them maybe twice a year and prune them a little in the spring just to get them above the fence mostly. That's it no weed barrier, no spraying, no fertilizer and they have outcompeted and grew faster than the couple grafts that survived. So I wouldn't be afraid of that option either honestly. And that is as cheap as you can get. Downside is you arent 100% sure what you're gunna get
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby Lockdown » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:31 am

Jmitch wrote:Sounds like you have a pretty good plan so far. I'd probably focus more on crab apples as they can be a little less maintenance than apples for human consumption. Think you are getting some good advice about rootstock as well. Would defiently lean towards a larger tree like a b118 over the smaller semi dwarfs.

I have messed around with grafting and was able to be pretty successful with getting them to take but then most of my grafted trees ended up dieting after I put them in the ground anyway. Honestly would have been money and time ahead to just buy the few trees that I knew I wanted and went that route instead of trying to graft my own.

I have had pretty good success growing a few trees from seed that got from a few local wild apple trees I know of. They are still young at this point (<5 years old) but a few have started fruiting with literally the absolute minimum maintenance you could do. I mean I started these in pots one winter until after frost then planted them in their final spot with a small fence. I hand pull weeds around them maybe twice a year and prune them a little in the spring just to get them above the fence mostly. That's it no weed barrier, no spraying, no fertilizer and they have outcompeted and grew faster than the couple grafts that survived. So I wouldn't be afraid of that option either honestly. And that is as cheap as you can get. Downside is you arent 100% sure what you're gunna get


Are the deer going to care what I get? Because these apples aren’t for me ;) I like the idea of growing them from seed. The issue is I’d like to start now and am limited to store varieties. I will need to research which ones are cold hardy. I know honeycrisp is, but are ALL honeycrisp varieties cold hardy? :think: Our local grocery store always has red delicious and from what I’ve seen they can’t be grown in MN.

I think they’ve got honeycrisp, Fuji, red delicious, pink lady, and a couple others.

Also, if I buy rootstock I can always plant it, then graft. I watched a video the other day where a guy used three different grafting methods on the same tree. The limbs were all roughly 3/4” to 1 1/4”.

I’m sure I’ll kill some trees. I’m sure some will die even if I do things right. That’s why I’m gonna plant a lot of them :D

Also, I like the idea of low hanging branches on a fair number of these trees. Most will be in a wide open CRP field and they’ve got very little to scrape on. These trees will be fairly close to a bedding thicket and I would love nothing more than to see a bunch of scrapes in the area. With the apples, the scrapes, the bedding, and a food plot… it SHOULD be a destination for rutting bucks. I’m hoping for concentrated doe activity. So either they’ll come in trying to hit a hot doe’s ground scent or not be able to resist checking on the dozen+ scrapes in a couple hundred yard area.
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby Ryan549 » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:39 am

The deer don’t care. They may prefer a certain crab over another, but they eat it as fast as it falls. My Enterprise, Liberty and Galarina’s are medium sized culinary varieties and the deer literally pick them off the trees. The so called “deer crabs” are eaten, but not targeted like some other trees.
I have 47 different varieties and I can tell you one thing, they eat them all.
In the end- apples are deer candy.
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:40 am

hunter_mike wrote:fascinating thread, i don't have anything useful to add but, im subscribed. I've really gotten into trees the past couple years. currently have a bunch of burr oak, black walnut and hazelnut planted in various places on relatives land. Excited to see what happens with them next year.

You might want to look into English oaks if you are wanting more oaks.

Seedlings from a good Chinese chestnut variety might not be a bad idea either. Just be aware that any chestnuts the tree drops will die & start rotting when their internal temperature drops to 24* so matter how late they drop they won't be a draw after that. However, most trees drop during September.
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby Stretch » Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:07 pm

20211212_185138.jpg


Here's a question for you tree guys. This is a apple tree i planted a few years ago, early this summer it died and at the same time sent up a new trunk that grew really fast. So my question is what will the new tree be? I'm guessing that it depends on if it's growing out above or below the original graph seam. Is that how it works?
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby UntouchableNess » Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:14 pm

Stretch wrote:20211212_185138.jpg

Here's a question for you tree guys. This is a apple tree i planted a few years ago, early this summer it died and at the same time sent up a new trunk that grew really fast. So my question is what will the new tree be? I'm guessing that it depends on if it's growing out above or below the original graph seam. Is that how it works?


If it was a grafted tree and the sprout grew below the graft line, it will be whatever the graft stock was. Find another tree to get some bud stock and try to graft into it. Nothing to lose doing that.
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby Ryan549 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:16 pm

Stretch wrote:20211212_185138.jpg

Here's a question for you tree guys. This is a apple tree i planted a few years ago, early this summer it died and at the same time sent up a new trunk that grew really fast. So my question is what will the new tree be? I'm guessing that it depends on if it's growing out above or below the original graph seam. Is that how it works?


You’re on the right track. Find out if it is growing from above or below the graft union- it appears from the picture that it is from below. If it is, it will grow out as whatever rootstock it is on. You could always graft onto the new growth.
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Re: I’m going to plant apple trees

Unread postby Stretch » Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:45 pm

Ryan549 wrote:
Stretch wrote:20211212_185138.jpg

Here's a question for you tree guys. This is a apple tree i planted a few years ago, early this summer it died and at the same time sent up a new trunk that grew really fast. So my question is what will the new tree be? I'm guessing that it depends on if it's growing out above or below the original graph seam. Is that how it works?


You’re on the right track. Find out if it is growing from above or below the graft union- it appears from the picture that it is from below. If it is, it will grow out as whatever rootstock it is on. You could always graft onto the new growth.
20211213_122751.jpg


I dug around it a little today, looks like it is below the graft. I guess in the spring i will make my first attempt at grafting a branch off one of my other trees.
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