Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Discuss the science of figuring out our prey through good detective work.
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jlh42581
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Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby jlh42581 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:58 am

I need to break out of my shell here and start doing some traveling. With my first son due here in two weeks Im sure that will go over like a lead balloon even with having a very loving lady who lets me hunt A LOT without grief. My question is, say youve done some research, looking to see where the most bucks of a state are coming out of. You find theres public opportunity. What exactly tells you that its even worth making a 3 hour drive to look at a property when looking at a topographic map which doesnt show much of anything that jumps up and screams... DEER. There has to be some keys Im missing in this puzzle. To aid in this, most of this public land is a physical endurance test on tracts that are large enough to warrant even a thought and the smaller, being that they are known by the public and are easy to access are almost a wash. Im not willing to travel and spend all that money when I can hunt properties near home that are more remote, scouting them when I have some free time rather than dedicating a whole entire day to be disappointed.

Ill give you an example thats a little extreme. We have family in Virginia around DC and its no secret that the place is overrun in certain spots. Early Feb we headed down for a visit. I checked out a few places online and had a couple good leads within an hour. One in particular was a really awesome piece of property. The research I had done prior to arriving told me it would most likely hold a hotbed of activity, it had three creeks, a saddle and a combination of woods/evergreen/thicket. We got to the area and headed in to look around. The place was absolutely polluted with GIGANTIC rubs and tracks everywhere. The hardwoods were mostly oaks. I thought I hit a gold mine. I spent 3 hours checking it out. On my way out I came across a sign and in very fine print the sign said that the only "hunting" opportunity was that you could train dogs on it during spring and summer, it was closed in the fall.

I guess my major question is, do you look at a topo and immediately count it out? Is most public land open for hunting that you can find out about through the state a major waste of time without crossing barriers such as water or climbing a rock face?


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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby Bucky » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:28 am

"I guess my major question is, do you look at a topo and immediately count it out? Is most public land open for hunting that you can find out about through the state a major waste of time without crossing barriers such as water or climbing a rock face?"

No... & No...

1. Get away from big cities if possible
2. Look for special access (only open for a small porition of the year)
3. Look for limited road access (very few access pts - bonus)
4. Look at surrounding land owners properties (you want to find areas that have large chunks of land privately held - big farms!, especially those surrounding the public you gonna check out)
5. Water creek/river +1, large hills +1, bluffs +2, marsh/swamp of good size > say 600 acres +1
6. Historical record books
7. New property, First time open to public hunting +++ pending size/location
8. If you are in the area, check out a local bar/sports shop... big bucks on the walls? If so ask some basic questions - this works well in bars where someone that does not give a crap about hunting will spill their guts (you gotta sort through the BS though)
9. Tag restrictions - draw +, OTC -, CWD free -, special permit +, high cost + (if you can afford), limited harvest quota + (more for next yr = increases odds of upper age classes)
10. This one is important, is there a sanctuary? - restricted hunting area, unaccessible to hunting, camping area, neighboring property that is not hunted/conservationist/tree hugger/etc, smaller city adjoining property - deer will retreat into city, especially older age class deer

I'm sure there are some I'm forgetting... but this is my thought process of whether or not it is worth my time
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values, with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." Fred Bear
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby dan » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:51 am

Great answer Bucky... One thing that has helped me tremedously is to have a back up plan. I like to map out all the public land in a couple countys around where I think I will end up.
Being far away from a town, city, hotels, or camping helps greatly too...

One other thing that works great is to call the local DNR Bioligist and ask questions about the area your looking at. I have had several bioligists tell me about new public propertys that people are not aware of yet, or places that they seen large buck sign..
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby Spysar » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:27 am

What exactly tells you that its even worth making a 3 hour drive to look at a property when looking at a topographic map which doesnt show much of anything that jumps up and screams... DEER.


I don't consider a 3 hour ride "traveling". That's more like hometown hunting. If your not willing to drive that far for a chance at a good spot, I can't help you....and you might as well stay in your regular spot.

That being said, you should be able to make a good guess with info you have avaliable...a puter and a phone. Look at the tops. Look at the ariels. Look at the big picture. Is there easy access to the land? Is there a city near it? Those two things would make me look further. Like DAn said, look at several nearby areas. Once there I usually can look at it and either say, yeah lets give it a better look, or no, this won't do. Don't waste your time on crap properties. Keep looking till you find the good one...
A buck will see you three times, and hear you twice, but he's only gonna smell you once.
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby Bucky » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:02 am

Spysar wrote:
What exactly tells you that its even worth making a 3 hour drive to look at a property when looking at a topographic map which doesnt show much of anything that jumps up and screams... DEER.


I don't consider a 3 hour ride "traveling". That's more like hometown hunting. If your not willing to drive that far for a chance at a good spot, I can't help you....and you might as well stay in your regular spot.

That being said, you should be able to make a good guess with info you have avaliable...a puter and a phone. Look at the tops. Look at the ariels. Look at the big picture. Is there easy access to the land? Is there a city near it? Those two things would make me look further. Like DAn said, look at several nearby areas. Once there I usually can look at it and either say, yeah lets give it a better look, or no, this won't do. Don't waste your time on crap properties. Keep looking till you find the good one...


And properties change from time to time... you got to be willing to change too. IMO, I like to have at least 6 solid hunting locals scouted... that way if one goes to pot, I got 5 more (I have lost more than most have ever cared to scout - things change, landowners change, kids grow up and want to hunt, you kill a big one and loose the spot, public changes annually).

More properties allows you to rotate hunting as well... sit fresh stands all year = much higher chance of shooting one you will hang on the wall. Try it, it is work but well worth the effort
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values, with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." Fred Bear
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby headgear » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:43 am

I've had some luck scouting small acerage public land that is often surrounded by large areas of private land. Most of the small acerage public is garbage but every now and then I find one that is loaded with bedding areas and holds good bucks. The private land hunters don't bother hunting the public because they have all this "prime" private land. Both public and private land hunters most of the time don't bother going into the nasty wet stuff so you often have the best areas all to yourself. These area get especially hot towards the end of fall because the surrounding land gets so much pressure that the bucks usually end up in these spots. Like I said earlier not all these areas are created equal but if you can find that overlooked hard to reach location it probably has good bedding and a good opportunity for a nice buck.
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby jlh42581 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:17 am

Thanks to all for your insight. While three hours might not have been something to worry about years ago, Im about to have a newborn son. While once in awhile might be an option, I just dont have the physical time to hunt that I would like. Im lucky if I get 6-8 full days a season to hunt. I used to be able to take weeks off at a time but now I need to consider things like what if my son gets sick and someone must stay home with him, I cant just be greedy and use all my free time for hunting. The majority of my hunting time every season goes like... find a way out of work early, rush to get somewhere, hang a stand and hunt. Being that I live smack in the middle of PA, I can travel 2.5 hours in any direction and see every part of the state. I guess what few days I have off I need to get away from home and hunt those remote places while using the local ones to my advantage during free time during the week. Must need to look at hunting in a whole new light.
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby Spysar » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:29 am

Good luck to you with your newborn son. Right now you have more to worry about than hunting. Wish you the best...
A buck will see you three times, and hear you twice, but he's only gonna smell you once.
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby jlh42581 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:26 am

Thanks spysar.... anyone know why i cant see the second post? i saw it originally, now its not showing up.
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:50 am

It appears Bucky deleted it, but I can usually open deleted posts and I can't open this one for some reason. I'm not sure why it was deleted.
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:27 am

I was wondering why he deleted it too? Maybe it was done accidentally when he was trying to edit?
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby Bucky » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:01 am

"I guess my major question is, do you look at a topo and immediately count it out? Is most public land open for hunting that you can find out about through the state a major waste of time without crossing barriers such as water or climbing a rock face?"

No... & No...

1. Get away from big cities if possible
2. Look for special access (only open for a small porition of the year)
3. Look for limited road access (very few access pts - bonus)
4. Look at surrounding land owners properties (you want to find areas that have large chunks of land privately held - big farms!, especially those surrounding the public you gonna check out)
5. Water creek/river +1, large hills +1, bluffs +2, marsh/swamp of good size > say 600 acres +1
6. Historical record books
7. New property, First time open to public hunting +++ pending size/location
8. If you are in the area, check out a local bar/sports shop... big bucks on the walls? If so ask some basic questions - this works well in bars where someone that does not give a crap about hunting will spill their guts (you gotta sort through the BS though)
9. Tag restrictions - draw +, OTC -, CWD free -, special permit +, high cost + (if you can afford), limited harvest quota + (more for next yr = increases odds of upper age classes)
10. This one is important, is there a sanctuary? - restricted hunting area, unaccessible to hunting, camping area, neighboring property that is not hunted/conservationist/tree hugger/etc, smaller city adjoining property - deer will retreat into city, especially older age class deer

I'm sure there are some I'm forgetting... but this is my thought process of whether or not it is worth my time

:)
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values, with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." Fred Bear
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby magicman54494 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:32 am

I'm a bit confused by your post. You say you need to break out and travel then you say traveling is now going to be limited by a new baby. I'm going to read between the lines so forgive me if I'm off base. It seems like you are looking for easy access to great hunting on public land without having a lot of time to put into scouting. It just don't work that way. Good spots are earned by lots of hard work. Good spots are not easy to access. I'm not great at reading topos so maybe it takes me more leg work to find spots. I do spend hours and hours looking at aerial photos and topos looking for those good hunting spots. I also use plat books a lot. They are getting more pricy these days but they are a must if you want to find good spots. The bottom line is you are going to have to do as much research as you can from home then take whatever time you can find and pound some ground. Over time you will add new spots and find a gem or 2 along the way. Do the best you can with the time you have. Good luck with the new baby!
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby kenn1320 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:29 am

Thanks to all for your insight. While three hours might not have been something to worry about years ago, Im about to have a newborn son. While once in awhile might be an option, I just dont have the physical time to hunt that I would like. Im lucky if I get 6-8 full days a season to hunt. I used to be able to take weeks off at a time but now I need to consider things like what if my son gets sick and someone must stay home with him, I cant just be greedy and use all my free time for hunting. The majority of my hunting time every season goes like... find a way out of work early, rush to get somewhere, hang a stand and hunt. Being that I live smack in the middle of PA, I can travel 2.5 hours in any direction and see every part of the state. I guess what few days I have off I need to get away from home and hunt those remote places while using the local ones to my advantage during free time during the week. Must need to look at hunting in a whole new light.


We seem to be in a similar boat. I used to be full blast before I had kids. Now my time away is limited and my wife grew tired of the weekend warrior thing. She said she would much rather I took a week and went hunting then every weekend being gone. So that's what I do now. I have been lucky to draw a Kansas tag for the last few years, and I head out there for 7-10 days. Not sure what to tell ya about the 3hr drive, I drive 1.5hrs each way to work every day. KS is a good 15hrs from me and I did the aerial scouting and then drove out there in the spring to knock on some doors. I still get out locally a few times a year, but with limited time to hunt, I'm gonna be in my best stands and those are out of state. Heck from everything Ive been reading, I might have to drive to PA if I fail to draw a tag in KS. :lol:
"Its about taking the right shot at the right time with good equipment." Dan Infalt
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Re: Public Land - Scouting Electronically HELP

Unread postby jlh42581 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:09 am

I guess what I was trying to say is... its hard to justify that time away, spent money on travel to get somewhere and have it be mediocre at best. Unfortunately, public land here is not like many other states. We dont have swamps by food sources, alot of our public ground is landlocked by other property, which can be good and bad. Obviously I cant travel the back side of a sheer mountain to take in consideration of the wind when the property on the back side of that is private and posted. Knocking on landowners doors here has been really spotty at best. I WANT to be able to travel, I drive 3 hours to fish the tributaries of lake erie but I dont go there in may and expect to find steelhead. The better property of this state is in the southern corners. Anyone whos ever considered PA for a decent buck can see that surrounding the major rivers is where it happens. What wee little bit of public land in those areas is so far from what I would consider a sanctuary and so overly pressured by 200,000 bowhunters of this state I would be further ahead to stay home. Im willing to make some long weekends out of it. My original question was what am I looking for in these areas I can see where theres nothing to me that seems special. No funnels, no points, nothing defining, its like someone donated the land to ease the tax burden. I do have a few nice spots close to home, but Ive finally come to the conclusion based on many factors that theres time better spent elsewhere. I did, find a remote swamp this morning nestled in 10,000 acres of state forest that should show some promise. I was basically wondering, do you guys hunt these properties where you dont see anything special... if so, why, is there something in the aerials or topos that Im not recognizing. My hopefully new hunting buddy should be here within the next two weeks so for a little bit my focus cant be what it used to be. I was at least smart enough to tell my old lady... no babies in archery season LOL.


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