thoughts on Earn a Buck??

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76chevy
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thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby 76chevy » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:35 pm

there is a proposal in Indiana now to make urban zones earn a buck

this is all new to me...I know there are lots of guys from WI where EAB has been around for a while on this board.

what do you all think of EAB??


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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby dreaming bucks » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:00 am

I hate it..............
Lots of young button bucks get shot because the hunter thinks he's shooting a small doe........ Anything to get that buck tag.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby 76chevy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:33 am

I can see that.

in IN we have a 3 inch antler rule, anything with less that 3" of antler on one side would qualify as an "antlerless" deer


dreaming bucks wrote:I hate it..............
Lots of young button bucks get shot because the hunter thinks he's shooting a small doe........ Anything to get that buck tag.
". . . there's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun." --Fred Bear
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby RaisedByWolves » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:37 am

there is no doubt it works to control the population.....the problem in wisconsin is that EAB was used for too many years in a row and destroyed the population to where it will takes years to bring it back
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby Rutnstrut » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:19 am

RaisedByWolves wrote:there is no doubt it works to control the population.....the problem in wisconsin is that EAB was used for too many years in a row and destroyed the population to where it will takes years to bring it back


Exactly, EAB is an excellent tool when used properly. A very nice benefit of EAB is that it also lets a lot of younger bucks survive.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby 76chevy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:50 am

unless the young bucks get killed as button bucks or spikes...

It seems to me, that EAB just makes guys kill a doe first when many of them are using the urban zones just for a chance at a second buck and holding out for a trophy class animal

not the intent of the urban zones at all....

Rutnstrut wrote:
RaisedByWolves wrote:there is no doubt it works to control the population.....the problem in wisconsin is that EAB was used for too many years in a row and destroyed the population to where it will takes years to bring it back


Exactly, EAB is an excellent tool when used properly. A very nice benefit of EAB is that it also lets a lot of younger bucks survive.
". . . there's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun." --Fred Bear
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby kenn1320 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:25 am

Wisconsin is still considered the hunt any county state for big bucks, and is still near the top for book buck entries. Guess the system can’t be all that bad? So your herd numbers are down in some areas, your only targeting a couple bucks a year anyway. There’s more food for the deer that are left. As for button bucks being shot, all the study’s done on winter mortality say the button buck is the most likely to die and that shooting him is likely a wise choice in some northern climates if you look at the big picture. Id also wager if you look at the stats, Michigan has more button bucks in its harvest and we don’t have EAB. Also when you look at the percentage of 1.5yr old bucks make up Michigan’s harvest, versus Wisconsin, you guys are still better off. What’s better, sacrifice a few buttons to protect a few older bucks, or save a few buttons and slaughter your 1.5yr olds? When they push for EAB here in Michigan, I will be on the band wagon. I still think in the long run it will protect many bucks, and will help with over population.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby dan » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:32 am

If you don't hunt here, you wouldn't understand... I watched an awesome herd get devistated by EAB...

1st off, over 40% of the "does" registered were button bucks, and a small handfull were small 1 1/2 year olds... This is because the doe kicks the button fawns out when she comes into heat while all the hunters are out there trying to get there doe, the stupedest deer in the woods is wandering around clueless trying to find a place to fit in...

Secondly, kids should not be subject to the restrictions but were in Wisconsin and quickly lost interest in hunting when they were not allowed to kill bucks and all the does were gone..

3RD, There were pockets where deer needed to be thinned, and areas it didn't, but the law made people kill a doe 1st where herd could not take it...
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby Southern Man » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:04 am

You know that's sad, being so far out of touch with what you're responsible for. That is unless their goal was to reduce the herd that much all over. Down here, the insurance companies put alot of pressure on the game dept.

I was at a meeting a while back the game dept held and someone asked if earn a buck was in the future here to control the doe population. The der program coordinator said "Absolutely not". I was glad to here that after what you guys have said in the past.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby magicman54494 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:16 am

My though on EAB:
There are much better ways to manage a deer herd!
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby kenn1320 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:13 am

From everything I just read on Wisconsin, the heard was almost double the population goals back in 2000. They estimated 1.8m deer and wanted that number dropped to 1m. Now in 2010 post hunting season, many parts of your state are still well over the population goals, while some areas are under.
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/hunt/deer/post_hunt_pop.pdf

I watched an awesome herd get devistated by EAB...


Dan I recall many areas of your state where the DNR took it upon themselves to do nightly spot and shoot to eradicate the herd in many areas due to CWD. Are you speaking of areas that have CWD and efforts imposed to reduce the herd in those areas?

1st off, over 40% of the "does" registered were button bucks, and a small handfull were small 1 1/2 year olds... This is because the doe kicks the button fawns out when she comes into heat while all the hunters are out there trying to get there doe, the stupedest deer in the woods is wandering around clueless trying to find a place to fit in...


Dan where did you get these numbers, as I could not find anything breaking the numbers down in recent years? What I could find was 1964-2000 showed button buck fawns composed 21.6% of the antlerless harvest with little variation. As antlerless harvest increase, so does the buck fawn rate, but its always between 20-25% of the total antlerless harvest.

Secondly, kids should not be subject to the restrictions but were in Wisconsin and quickly lost interest in hunting when they were not allowed to kill bucks and all the does were gone..


I agree, and from what I read they do not have to follow EAB during the "youth hunt". This plan helps ensure a "kid" is the one shooting the deer and not his dad or uncle during the normal season and using his tag.

quickly lost interest in hunting when they were not allowed to kill bucks and all the does were gone..


Interesting the data doesnt break down the license sales by age, but the trend seems to be fairly consistent. Wisconsin is not loosing hunters any faster then the other states. I hear people in Michigan say the same thing, if they cant shoot a buck, they dont want to hunt. Pretty sad outlook on hunting if you ask me.......

but the law made people kill a doe 1st where herd could not take it...
Nobody is forced to kill a deer. If the numbers are low, dont shoot any. The DNR is responsible for selling permits to get the population where they want it, but it is the hunters who pull the trigger. All to often they dont realize they are managers of the herd, and if given rope, many will hang themselves.

The goal was to lower the population and until they came out with EAB, the hunters were not getting the job done.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby magicman54494 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:09 am

but the law made people kill a doe 1st where herd could not take it...
Nobody is forced to kill a deer. If the numbers are low, dont shoot any. The DNR is responsible for selling permits to get the population where they want it, but it is the hunters who pull the trigger. All to often they dont realize they are managers of the herd, and if given rope, many will hang themselves.

The goal was to lower the population and until they came out with EAB, the hunters were not getting the job done.[/quote]

If the DNR managed properly the numbers would'nt be low to the point of not hunting. You're blaming the hunters for the failed management plan set by the government. Most hunters rely on the DNR to manage the herd. That is the DNR's function not the hunters. If the DNR says shoot then you can't blame the hunters for doing so. If the hunters are supposed to manage the herd then we should do away with the DNR because they serve no purpose.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby BackWoodsHunter » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:47 am

magicman54494 wrote: If the hunters are supposed to manage the herd then we should do away with the DNR because they serve no purpose.



I'd sign that petition...
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby goldtip5575 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 am

Another downfall of EAB was it made honest hunters dishonest.Picking up roadkills,same doe reg.more than once,tagging other people does that didnt need EAB stickers.Or just plain and simple shooting a mature buck and having someone else tag it.How many of you would let a 180 inch pass just cuz you didnt have an EAB sticker?
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby dan » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:29 am

From everything I just read on Wisconsin, the heard was almost double the population goals back in 2000.

Population goals in my opinion were exaggerated to support an agenda. Our then Govenor and chief of the WDNR Jim Doyle was at about the same time recieving large cash donations from the Auto insurance collation... The goals of the DNR & Doyal were not grasped by the hunters or taxpayers of this state, nor were they mandated from trained proffessionals. Rather they were mandated by people heading up the DNR whom replaced the trained personel that were fired when Adolf Doyle took office and gave his lawyer, secratary, and friends all jobs running our DNR. These are the people that decided to lower our population with drastic measures even though 6the deer were healty and most areas were not seeing over browsing.

Now in 2010 post hunting season, many parts of your state are still well over the population goals, while some areas are under
And some other areas were so devistated that they stopped all doe hunting due to over harvest, and some though an entire season of NO HUNTING at all should of been put in place to bounce those areas back to life.


Dan I recall many areas of your state where the DNR took it upon themselves to do nightly spot and shoot to eradicate the herd in many areas due to CWD. Are you speaking of areas that have CWD and efforts imposed to reduce the herd in those areas?

Some areas of the CWD zone still have decent populations, and others like the area where I live have been devistated, at least the public portions. Ironically, there has never been a deer found here with CWD in my area... However, I was also talking about the North woods which have some areas that were hit extremly hard just because of over harvesting of does and fawns...

Dan where did you get these numbers, as I could not find anything breaking the numbers down in recent years? What I could find was 1964-2000 showed button buck fawns composed 21.6% of the antlerless harvest with little variation. As antlerless harvest increase, so does the buck fawn rate, but its always between 20-25% of the total antlerless harvest.


I remember seeing two stats, one area was at around 48%, the other was at 43 I think... They may have been CWD areas though, but that shouldn't matter. Even at 25% thats unexceptable. And no person should recieve a buck tag for shooting a buck. Lots of guys were shooting fawns on purpose to get the tag. I see some fawns that still have spots at the September opener on occasion, and I saw a deer at registration one day that was so small a guy could of stuck it in his back pack... A lot of guys were dumping dead fawns in ditches all over because they were ashamed to take them home.

I agree, and from what I read they do not have to follow EAB during the "youth hunt". This plan helps ensure a "kid" is the one shooting the deer and not his dad or uncle during the normal season and using his tag.


Youth hunt was A gun hunt mainly and a lot of fathers did not take there kids to participate because of travel and such so the kids basically get to come up for deer camp with no buck tag.
And as far as someone else shooting a buck for the kid if someone wants to cheat they will antway and deer are not so endangered that we have to make laws to stop all kids from killing bucks to make sure one low life don't have a kid tag a buck... So freakin what! If the kid aint available the guy will just drive it to a non eab area or just sneak it home.
Its not right to make laws to enforce law breakers into following laws... That only makes law biding citizens pay...


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