Why Anti Crossbow?

[cspot]

I'm not worrying , and dont like implying that I am. The concern is, how long of a season will we have if everyone dumps their bows for a crossbow this fall? , and it is heading that way to some degree. It is a logical concern. The first compounds that came out are dinosaurs compared to today and I didn't see it as a big deal. There were a fraction of bow hunters then too. I was almost as good with my recurve , but the compound was a bit better. The crossbow is far superior to any compound. Take 50 crossbow shooters and 50 compound shooters @ 30 yds and you will see a big difference . There are more variables to a compound. No matter how much I practice , I will seldom beat a crossbow, and I practice daily till my wasted shoulders get sore. It is more accurate, faster, and less to worry about when a deer is there. Scopes make crossbows even more accurate. Again , if everyone dumps their recurves and compounds and use crossbows instead, I am sure we would see a climb in harvest numbers. If it is not true, why do so many able bodied people use them instead of compounds and recurves? Of course, they are the superior weapon. If weapon does not matter, then lets all use rifles opening day of bow then too, or perhaps just muzzleloaders. This is all the fault of whoever made crossbows legal for anyone in hopes to sell more licenses. They should have left it the way it was, at least thats the belief in Wisconsin. Many states have separate crossbow seasons. My uncle in New York is surprised crossbows have as long as a season as we do. New York is a shorter season for crossbows. Michigan has some restrictions too . I am not sure what they are however.

See you admit above the compound of 40 years ago doesn't compare anything to todays compound. They have really advanced as well. So has the technology to go along with them. Why aren't you promoting limiting compounds?

Again there is a far bigger difference in success rates if you compare a compound to a recurve bow than there is between a crossbow and a compound. The crossbow does have an edge, but it isn't as much as some make it out to be.

Your fear of everyone suddenly picking up a crossbow is unfounded as well. I think in states that have had them legal for a while about 60% of archery hunters use a crossbow. Generally kids start out with a crossbow and then in their late teen years or so they go to a vertical bow and then in their late 40's and 50's they tend to go back to the crossbow if you look at the data.

PA had crossbows well before Wisconsin (legal in all archery seasons here) and the participation is now flattening out (We are still just slightly over on archery permits sold now vs in the 90's). All states across the country are losing hunters, so opportunities are going to increase and not decrease. In PA there has been some complaints by gun hunters about archery killing too many deer. However they just extended the gun season by 1 day this past year and are going to increase it another day next year. Funny thing is that alot of rifle hunters complained because they added to the day to the beginning of the season and that changed the opening day. Go figure. PA is also looking at extending our archery season possibly in 2021.

A quote I found about Wisconsin. "And as fewer people have bought gun and archery licenses over the last four years, more have bought crossbow licenses. In fact crossbows represent the only area of increase in Wisconsin deer hunting license sales over the last two decades." So tell me again why they should change the seasons when the crossbow is getting more people in the woods.

[tundra@1]

Wis should have left it alone. Anyone with a disability
Or a injury, that got a doctor's excuse, or was over 65 could use one. Now a lot of healthy individuals anyone at any age can use one
The numbers here will continue to rise, to s point that it will affect the archery season we now have. I am 70, but I do care about the future of our archery season. However it's legal now, so only time will tell, I may be wrong. I have one, I use it for turkey hunting. I prefer my compound and my long bow. I just like to watch arrows fly............

[Brian1986]

In Ohio crossbows have been legal archery equipment for at least since the 80s and maybe before. Our archery season has always started either the first weekend in October or last weekend in September and ended either last day of January or first Sunday in February. We have never had a problem with our deer herd shrinking because of crossbow equipment. We however also have very limited firearms seasons and simple regulations. 9 days of shotgun season or straight walled rifle cartridge (no high powered rifles)- 7 days the 1st Monday after Thanksgiving and 2 days a couple weeks later. There's also a 4 day muzzleloader season 1st week of January. We can take 1 antlered deer per season regardless of method used. You can shoot a buck or doe thru the end of the 1st 7 day shotgun season. But after it closes you can only shoot an antlered deer the remainder of the season on public land to protect accidental shooting of bucks that have she'd their antlers. Additionally, hunters can use their archery equipment during any of the firearms seasons if they wish.

At the range shooting at longer distances maybe the crossbow has an edge. But in a hunting situation from a tree stand I very rarely ever have a shot longer than 40yds due to cover & tree limbs.

So maybe a crossbow is arguably a more effective long range weapon (though how quickly does the bolt lose penetration power after 40yds?). But I feel like there are other management practices that have a far greater impact on deer than a crossbow being legal archery equipment.

[ihookem]

Brian, thats fair enough. You have stricter harvest limits than Wis and that likely makes up for it. Wisconsin has 2 bucks, and many doe tags. I can buy a bow tag and get 3 doe tags with it in my county. I can also go buy a gun tag and get another 3 doe tags. I can take the gun doe tags and use them for bow, or vise versa, or I can use all 6 doe tags just for gun,or bow. . This is extremely liberal for how far north Wisconsin is compared to Ohio and C spots Pensylvania . This a big problem. Wisconsin should have left crossbows alone with seniors and disabled hunters. Northern Wis . is really far north, add winter severity , and the winters are devastating in northern Wis. Now, add a critter called Timber Wolves that are expanding into central Wisc. What you have is an over harvest. Adding crossbows doesnt help . We need restrictive seasons. Shortening all bow hunting might help. We know the crossbow harvest in Wisconsin cause it is a separate tag and deer get registered as a separate kill so we know how effective crossbows are. They are much more effective. I dont know why many dont want to hear that. And I am not against crossbows for the most part. The day will come when I will be forced to use one. My rotator cuffs are always sore, and hurt all the time. The soreness never goes away, ever and I cant pull back 52 lbs with my new bow after an hour or 2 in the stand. It just needs a separate season and crossbow hunters are taking advantage of a compound/ recurve season.

[stash59]

Any time you can use a solid rest. Like a bench for shooting a rifle and, yes, a xbow. Amazing groups can be achieved. But how many xbow hunters have a bench type setup at their tree stand/ground blind? Even those hunting on private out of a shooting house. Don't have a true bench type setup. Anyone hunting on public will have less of a solid rest to work with. Because you just can't take that much stuff in the woods with you. Some stands have a rail, that the xbow hunter ca use. Others will take a shooting stick. Most mobile hunters will probably be without these advantages. To lighten the load.

I think most of the people complaining about xbow hunters taking too long of shots, too much game and eventually shortening archery seasons. Have never shot an xbow or never actually hunted with them. It ain't no where's near as easy as many make it out to be. Even with a rail or a shooting stick.

If you really want to know what it's actually like. Hunt with one or at least do some type of target/stump shooting with one, that replicates hunting conditions. Without the solid rest used to accurately sight them in. Then come back and tell me how easy it is! Until you've done that!! You have nothing to base your biased opinions on.

[Rich M]

Any time you can use a solid rest. Like a bench for shooting a rifle and, yes, a xbow. Amazing groups can be achieved. But how many xbow hunters have a bench type setup at their tree stand/ground blind? Even those hunting on private out of a shooting house. Don't have a true bench type setup. Anyone hunting on public will have less of a solid rest to work with. Because you just can't take that much stuff in the woods with you. Some stands have a rail, that the xbow hunter ca use. Others will take a shooting stick. Most mobile hunters will probably be without these advantages. To lighten the load.

I think most of the people complaining about xbow hunters taking too long of shots, too much game and eventually shortening archery seasons. Have never shot an xbow or never actually hunted with them. It ain't no where's near as easy as many make it out to be. Even with a rail or a shooting stick.

If you really want to know what it's actually like. Hunt with one or at least do some type of target/stump shooting with one, that replicates hunting conditions. Without the solid rest used to accurately sight them in. Then come back and tell me how easy it is! Until you've done that!! You have nothing to base your biased opinions on.

Well said.

I prefer a xbow over compound and have not lost a deer w xbow but have with compound - the whole lack of movement thing helps me not make any noise and being deaf isn't a viable excuse to shoot a xbow in a non xbow state. LOL! So I keep hunting with whatever needs to be hunted with.

So many of us are fed opinions by our parents, friends, etc. and they seem to stick and feel like gospel. They aren't and until you try to hunt with a true traditional bow, compound, or xbow you can't talk about it but most will and with whatever taught emotion comes with it. Same goes for baiting and using dogs to hunt deer - folks have strong opinions for no reason other than they were taught to have those opinions.

[cspot]

Any time you can use a solid rest. Like a bench for shooting a rifle and, yes, a xbow. Amazing groups can be achieved. But how many xbow hunters have a bench type setup at their tree stand/ground blind? Even those hunting on private out of a shooting house. Don't have a true bench type setup. Anyone hunting on public will have less of a solid rest to work with. Because you just can't take that much stuff in the woods with you. Some stands have a rail, that the xbow hunter ca use. Others will take a shooting stick. Most mobile hunters will probably be without these advantages. To lighten the load.

I think most of the people complaining about xbow hunters taking too long of shots, too much game and eventually shortening archery seasons. Have never shot an xbow or never actually hunted with them. It ain't no where's near as easy as many make it out to be. Even with a rail or a shooting stick.

If you really want to know what it's actually like. Hunt with one or at least do some type of target/stump shooting with one, that replicates hunting conditions. Without the solid rest used to accurately sight them in. Then come back and tell me how easy it is! Until you've done that!! You have nothing to base your biased opinions on.

Funny thing is that back several years ago my kids were just starting hunting and my work situation changed so I was able to archery hunt again. We went the crossbow route since all of us could use the same weapon and they were too young to use a compound. Now all but 1 are able to hunt on their own, so I am hunting alot more by myself and since I don't have any kids in tow I am hunting alot more mobile. I just purchased a compound vertical bow a few days ago as I want something easier to tote around than a crossbow. I hadn't shot a compound in about 20 years or so and after a half dozen shots I was shooting a pretty good group at 20 yards. Compounds have come along ways. That bow is quiet, smooth and has no vibration. Not to mention it is slinging arrows pretty darn fast.

[Mopar1169]

I use a crossbow. I would like to get a compound but I just don't have the time to devote to it to take ethical shots using it. I work full-time, farm and have a family. Time in the fall is a precious commodity for me. Besides my one out of state trip a year I take I normally only get to hunt on my days off when it is raining or snowing. The rest of the time I am at work or in the fields. I never even got my gun out of the safe this year I was so busy.

The decision to hunt with a xbow was easy for me. I can use a crossbow without the time required to make ethical shots. Or would you rather I just pick up a compound shoot it a few times then go out and wound 10 deer because I don't have the time to practice enough. Before you say you gotta make time. Some people have other commitments that make that nearly impossible.

The comments about people are going to kill all deer with crossbows is complete BS. You still have to be able to get close enough to deer to be able to shoot them. Probably 70% of the hunters in the woods could never get on a big buck execpt for by accident. I hunted mostly on public this year. Hardly ever saw any hunter sign past a mile deep. Most people will not walk that deep.

The other thing is the crossbow offerings that truly do give a advantage like the ravens and high end ten points are priced so high there is only a limited number of people that can afford them.
They are not going to make that big of a impact.

Those big bucks and does some how survive rifle season every year can't figure out how crossbows are going to make them extinct.

[stash59]

Just found this study on the WI DNR website.

https://dnr.wi.gov/About/NRB/2019/october/00%20Tuesday%202019-10-3A%20Wisconsin%20Crossbow%20Report%20Final.pdf



It's lengthy, but there are alot of graphs. If I'm seeing it correctly. Gun license sales keep dropping. But many of those not gun hunting have taken up archery, with either a verticle bow or an xbow. Xbow users do have a few percentage points higher of a success rate than vert bow users. But most new xbow users are in the 40-65 YO age range.

So I'm assuming that could account for some of the higher success rate. Alot of us older guys just want to fill our tags. Younger guys may hold out more for "trophy" bucks. Just my thinking not what the study shows.

But basically xbows have little to do with increasing harvest rates.

Now where all off this recent proposals for the DNR to change the archery and gun seasons is coming from. I don't know. I'm thinking money is the root of it.

[Josh_S]

I use a crossbow. I would like to get a compound but I just don't have the time to devote to it to take ethical shots using it. I work full-time, farm and have a family. Time in the fall is a precious commodity for me. Besides my one out of state trip a year I take I normally only get to hunt on my days off when it is raining or snowing. The rest of the time I am at work or in the fields. I never even got my gun out of the safe this year I was so busy.

The decision to hunt with a xbow was easy for me. I can use a crossbow without the time required to make ethical shots. Or would you rather I just pick up a compound shoot it a few times then go out and wound 10 deer because I don't have the time to practice enough. Before you say you gotta make time. Some people have other commitments that make that nearly impossible.

The comments about people are going to kill all deer with crossbows is complete BS. You still have to be able to get close enough to deer to be able to shoot them. Probably 70% of the hunters in the woods could never get on a big buck execpt for by accident. I hunted mostly on public this year. Hardly ever saw any hunter sign past a mile deep. Most people will not walk that deep.

The other thing is the crossbow offerings that truly do give a advantage like the ravens and high end ten points are priced so high there is only a limited number of people that can afford them.
They are not going to make that big of a impact.

Those big bucks and does some how survive rifle season every year can't figure out how crossbows are going to make them extinct.

Best, most honest, and most responsible answer I've seen.

[Bman409]

In NY, you can only use the crossbow during the final two weeks of the 6 week archery season. Its frustrating and has caused me to go to Pennsylvania to hunt with my crossbow in October.

In my opinion, the REAL reason that people oppose allowing the crossbow is because they don't want other hunters in the woods. Guys will talk about recruiting more hunters for the "future of the sport" etc, but in reality, people don't want more hunters, unless its their kid, or they are selling something to the hunting community.

When push comes to shove, people's action suggests to me that they do not want more hunters in the woods... exactly the opposite.

That's why you see more and more land being posted and opposition from the hunting community to something like the crossbow which OBVIOUSLY would bring more people in to the sport at a younger age.

[Kraftd]

I'm personally for anything that gets people out in the woods, as long as its done ethically.

That said, since I'm capable of hunting with a vertical bow, I would find less reward in taking a big buck with a cross bow. A vertical bow is harder, there really isn't an argument there as far as I'm concerned. For that reason, I find the challenge more rewarding. I haven't rifle hunted for a decade, not because I'm against it, only because for me I enjoy the challenge more in archery hunting, and have usually been able to have the meat I want procured wrapped up by gun season.

One thing that doesn't bother me, but makes me a little sad, is how many totally able bodied young people starting out with X-bows. I'm very happy they are in the woods, but I have strong doubts how many will actually loop back around to a vertical bow at any point. Again, doesn't make me angry, I just think hunting with a vertical bow is such an incredible experience it makes me a little sad when capable folks don't take that route.

I have every intent of getting into traditional archery sooner rather than later. I just know that at this point with other responsibilities, I can't dedicate enough practice time to feel ethical heading into the woods with traditional gear. If someone feels similarly between a compound and x-bow, good on them.

[Boogieman1]

In NY, you can only use the crossbow during the final two weeks of the 6 week archery season. Its frustrating and has caused me to go to Pennsylvania to hunt with my crossbow in October.

In my opinion, the REAL reason that people oppose allowing the crossbow is because they don't want other hunters in the woods. Guys will talk about recruiting more hunters for the "future of the sport" etc, but in reality, people don't want more hunters, unless its their kid, or they are selling something to the hunting community.

When push comes to shove, people's action suggests to me that they do not want more hunters in the woods... exactly the opposite.

That's why you see more and more land being posted and opposition from the hunting community to something like the crossbow which OBVIOUSLY would bring more people in to the sport at a younger age.

I agree with what you said. And personally that’s how I feel. I never recall one time in my life pulling into a 200 acre WMA and having to park down the street cause the lot was full. And saying to myself, what would really be great is if we can get some more people packed in here! My own belief is we don’t need more, we need better even if that’s a less number overall. I can’t think of a single thing other than petitions or votes where shear numbers are the answer. Just like the Marines, keep it lean and mean.

Weaponry has nothing to do with declining numbers. Every study I have seen show the Xbow does nothing for numbers it’s just guys already hunting picking up a xbow. Numbers are not the problem. Lack of quality opportunity is the problem which is directly contributed to already having to many people. The market has drove the prices of private up so high most folks said screw it an quit. Or the public gets flooded which creates a poor experience for a high percentage of the hunters. 99% of most people will quit anything if there’s not some kind of success early on.

Hunting isn’t going anywhere. To much money involved. Think my state alone makes billions a year just selling deer corn. Go ask any old timer who is serious about bow hunting when the absolute best time to be a bow hunter was. Pretty much guarantee you will hear back b4 hunting became a industry. Very few guys cared anything about it until dollar signs started running through there head.

[Bman409]

I'm personally for anything that gets people out in the woods, as long as its done ethically.

That said, since I'm capable of hunting with a vertical bow, I would find less reward in taking a big buck with a cross bow. A vertical bow is harder, there really isn't an argument there as far as I'm concerned. For that reason, I find the challenge more rewarding. I haven't rifle hunted for a decade, not because I'm against it, only because for me I enjoy the challenge more in archery hunting, and have usually been able to have the meat I want procured wrapped up by gun season.

One thing that doesn't bother me, but makes me a little sad, is how many totally able bodied young people starting out with X-bows. I'm very happy they are in the woods, but I have strong doubts how many will actually loop back around to a vertical bow at any point. Again, doesn't make me angry, I just think hunting with a vertical bow is such an incredible experience it makes me a little sad when capable folks don't take that route.

I have every intent of getting into traditional archery sooner rather than later. I just know that at this point with other responsibilities, I can't dedicate enough practice time to feel ethical heading into the woods with traditional gear. If someone feels similarly between a compound and x-bow, good on them.

I think there are a fair number of people out there who simply can't use a vertical bow for whatever reasons.

I'm 50 years old. When I was a teenager I severely dislocated my left elbow (I still physically cringe thinking about it). It pops out from time to time, unexpectedly , especially when I have it extended (straight arm), etc.. for this reason, I was never comfortable shooting a vertical bow.. I never even tried it (other than a kids bow). When crossbow became legal it opened up a whole other season and approach and I've been gaining info , mobile hunting, etc ever since.

its very frustrating however to hear about the resistance from other hunters to crossbows. It angers me because the difference between a crossbow and a compound bow is MINISCULE compared to say, the difference between a rifled slug gun and a 7 mm with a high powered scope on it.. or open sights 30-30 versues a .30-06. One gives you certain advantages... the other gives you other advantages... everyone can use what they want...

but not so, when it comes to crossbows. At least in NY state the vertical bow guys have blocked the legislation that would allow full access for the crossbows. NY State is probably one of the most anti-hunting states in the union and instead of being united as hunters.. .they have us pitted one against the other. Its a real shame

Anyway, I go to PA where I grew up and hunt with the crossbow in October.. if NY doesn't want my money, PA will take it

[Kraftd]

I'm personally for anything that gets people out in the woods, as long as its done ethically.

That said, since I'm capable of hunting with a vertical bow, I would find less reward in taking a big buck with a cross bow. A vertical bow is harder, there really isn't an argument there as far as I'm concerned. For that reason, I find the challenge more rewarding. I haven't rifle hunted for a decade, not because I'm against it, only because for me I enjoy the challenge more in archery hunting, and have usually been able to have the meat I want procured wrapped up by gun season.

One thing that doesn't bother me, but makes me a little sad, is how many totally able bodied young people starting out with X-bows. I'm very happy they are in the woods, but I have strong doubts how many will actually loop back around to a vertical bow at any point. Again, doesn't make me angry, I just think hunting with a vertical bow is such an incredible experience it makes me a little sad when capable folks don't take that route.

I have every intent of getting into traditional archery sooner rather than later. I just know that at this point with other responsibilities, I can't dedicate enough practice time to feel ethical heading into the woods with traditional gear. If someone feels similarly between a compound and x-bow, good on them.

I think there are a fair number of people out there who simply can't use a vertical bow for whatever reasons.

I'm 50 years old. When I was a teenager I severely dislocated my left elbow (I still physically cringe thinking about it). It pops out from time to time, unexpectedly , especially when I have it extended (straight arm), etc.. for this reason, I was never comfortable shooting a vertical bow.. I never even tried it (other than a kids bow). When crossbow became legal it opened up a whole other season and approach and I've been gaining info , mobile hunting, etc ever since.

its very frustrating however to hear about the resistance from other hunters to crossbows. It angers me because the difference between a crossbow and a compound bow is MINISCULE compared to say, the difference between a rifled slug gun and a 7 mm with a high powered scope on it.. or open sights 30-30 versues a .30-06. One gives you certain advantages... the other gives you other advantages... everyone can use what they want...

but not so, when it comes to crossbows. At least in NY state the vertical bow guys have blocked the legislation that would allow full access for the crossbows. NY State is probably one of the most anti-hunting states in the union and instead of being united as hunters.. .they have us pitted one against the other. Its a real shame

Anyway, I go to PA where I grew up and hunt with the crossbow in October.. if NY doesn't want my money, PA will take it

Bman, glad you have opportunities to get out and the crossbow hunting expands that, I truly am. That said, I've shot both, to imply the difference is miniscule just doesn't past muster for me. I don't particularly care other than personal preference in my case, but hunting with an X-bow is easier. Drawing the bow with the animal there is hard. Aiming without a scope and the ability to rest and steady yourself is harder.

In your gun example you're still talking about weapons in the rifled slug gun and open sights 30-30 with precision accuracy out past 100 yards. I've killed deer at that range with an open sighted 30-30, heck of a lot easier than a deer at 30 with a compound, imo anyways.

Just for the sake of conversation, I think those kinds of notions are what rile up some guys. Its human nature to some extent. If you do something more difficult, its hard not to measure that against thing that are easier. Honestly, that's probably 90% of the reason archery hunting still exists as a sport, the challenge of it. Once guns were invented and perfected, if it was truly just about maximizing success rate and efficiency, there is no reason to use a bow of any type. Many folks like to challenge themselves. There really is no reason to bowhunt other than the longer season and greater challenge. The longer season is by and large dictated by the accepted notion that it is more difficult.That exists on a spectrum and there is nothing wrong with that. Traditional is harder that compound, compound harder than X bow, X bow harder that Muzzie...etc.

I'm all in on whatever floats your boat, but can see the arguments for more limited seasons for Xbows too. I've shot a handful of friends and families. Generally pick it up, crank it back, punch the 12 ring.