digital scouting question

[raisins]

I am doing the pre-work before I put boots on ground. I'm looking at several large pieces of public in hill/mountain country. So, I have to brutally cut areas so I don't get overwhelmed.

Of course, priority one to check out is where land cover and topography both point to a location (topo and land cover interact/intersect)

However, if an area only has one or the other then which do you prioritize?

Let's say you have a saddle or topographic pinch point in what looks from the imagery to be a monoculture (no diversity just eyeballing). Compare this to edge, clearcut, or land cover funnel but with "boring" topography (just side of a hill or a flatter area). Which would you prioritize first to look for sign and smaller scale features? I guess, in other words, are hill country mature bucks more affected by land cover or topography or is that impossible to answer?

Thanks - R

[Drenalin]

I don't want to lay this out there like it's a rule, but for me in the areas I hunt, topography is everywhere and edge is not. I find better concentrations of deer in areas with diversity (which creates edge). But topography in hill/mountain country largely helps dictate bedding.

[raisins]

I don't want to lay this out there like it's a rule, but for me in the areas I hunt, topography is everywhere and edge is not. I find better concentrations of deer in areas with diversity (which creates edge). But topography in hill/mountain country largely helps dictate bedding.

Thanks for the reply.

I think my experience matches that. I'm still struggling at finding individual buck beds and to truly employ the beast method. For now, I like to see as much deer sign as possible because then I will inevitably find some big buck sign (if I look enough in hard to access areas) and that is where I've been setting up.

[Velociraptor]

What does " topography is everywhere and edge is not'" mean
A desert is topography...just looking for help.. thx

[Velociraptor]

What does " topography is everywhere and edge is not'" mean
A desert is topography...just looking for help.. thx

[Drenalin]

What does " topography is everywhere and edge is not'" mean
A desert is topography...just looking for help.. thx

Sorry, not the correct use of the word. When I say "topography is everywhere" I mean that the areas I hunt are hill/mountain terrain with a lot of elevation gain and drop. Because of all this change in elevation, there is an abundance of terrain features deer hunters typically like (i.e. saddles, benches, heads of drainages, etc.). But also because of all this change in elevation, and the related abundance of those terrain features, the terrain features themselves seem to be less productive locations to hunt than they might be in a more flat region of the country. That's where the "edge is not" comment comes into play because my areas are also fairly monotonous in the vegetative cover, comprised of large blocks of timber. I hesitate to say big woods because it's not exactly like the big woods we typically think of up north, but I think it's similar to that. So if I want to get on deer quickly, I've found that I'm better off to key in on edges created by vegetation before considering the topography of the area. With this in mind, my online scouting consists of looking an area over and marking edge or transition first, then switching to the topo layer and refining those waypoints slightly if they happen to be in very close proximity to a terrain feature (which creates another type of edge).

Now this is all just my opinion based on what I've experienced where I hunt. Your mileage may vary. I am not a big buck slayer, and you'll be much better served listening to other guys on this forum who are, especially if they hunt areas similar to yours. Welcome to the forum!

[seazofcheeze]

If you're looking at rut time frame. I will take terrain features first, assuming they have some relationship to doe bedding. If its early or late season, I'd be more interested in habitat diversity and preferred food sources.

[Dave0317]

I’d say I prioritize edges first. A saddle in a big chunk of monotonous timber won’t mean much to me. A saddle in between thick cover and food on one side, and water on the other side means much more. Even water and diverse vegetation in a big expanse of flat monotonous woods would be a spot I would flag.

Fortunately, if you are looking at a good size chunk of land, you probably won’t have to choose. Almost all the spots I mark on my maps to check on my local public land are a combo deal, vegetation or water edge plus terrain features. And I still have way more than I can realistically scout in any given year. If you are having issues finding them, shoot me a pm, I’ll be glad to look at the area and tell you where I would start.

Not that I am a pro or anything, but I have gotten pretty good at finding beds.

[raisins]

I’d say I prioritize edges first. A saddle in a big chunk of monotonous timber won’t mean much to me. A saddle in between thick cover and food on one side, and water on the other side means much more. Even water and diverse vegetation in a big expanse of flat monotonous woods would be a spot I would flag.

Fortunately, if you are looking at a good size chunk of land, you probably won’t have to choose. Almost all the spots I mark on my maps to check on my local public land are a combo deal, vegetation or water edge plus terrain features. And I still have way more than I can realistically scout in any given year. If you are having issues finding them, shoot me a pm, I’ll be glad to look at the area and tell you where I would start.

Not that I am a pro or anything, but I have gotten pretty good at finding beds.

Thanks for the offer, and thanks everyone for the helpful replies. I'll try my hand at it first, and hit you up if I get stumped!

I think you hit on something. You have bedding caused in part by terrain and travel routes caused by terrain. So, bucks need security and food (water also, but that's everywhere where I live) and females during the rut. Like you, it seems, I've sat in great topography in the middle of nowhere (monoculture) and not seen anything because the bucks had no reason to be there (like sitting on a nice highway that just dead ends in the desert).

So, it's always a combo deal, it seems, and higher deer populations are associated with habitat diversity. Where I hunt (West Va.), there is no agriculture in most areas due to rocky/infertile soil on steep slopes and people can bait deer all year on private property (this is bad for many reasons, heck you can even bait on most public land up until 1 month before season starts). So, it seems other than acorns and other obvious sources that the most intense feeding happens on edges, overgrown fields, and clearcuts (aside from hardwood browse). Just look for a crazy diversity of various weeds and flowering herbs and you'll find deer poop every 2 feet. Of course then zoom out and figure out where they are bedding based upon land cover and topography in the surrounding areas. But I've never had much luck hunting in the middle of a large forest without any obvious disturbance within 1/2 mile or so.

Please everyone let me know if I don't make sense here! I took 15 years off hunting and am just getting back into it the last 4 years, so I'm learning a lot here but have a lot more to learn. I do have Dan's Hill Country DVD and have watched many vids from him, THP, and others and read a few books on the subject this past year.

[Velociraptor]

Just want to say thx for your excellent response...I'm on it like Blue Bonnet...I am making more progress...putting cameras up now . Thx for the tips...you bring a lot to the party...

[cspot]

What does " topography is everywhere and edge is not'" mean
A desert is topography...just looking for help.. thx

Sorry, not the correct use of the word. When I say "topography is everywhere" I mean that the areas I hunt are hill/mountain terrain with a lot of elevation gain and drop. Because of all this change in elevation, there is an abundance of terrain features deer hunters typically like (i.e. saddles, benches, heads of drainages, etc.). But also because of all this change in elevation, and the related abundance of those terrain features, the terrain features themselves seem to be less productive locations to hunt than they might be in a more flat region of the country. That's where the "edge is not" comment comes into play because my areas are also fairly monotonous in the vegetative cover, comprised of large blocks of timber. I hesitate to say big woods because it's not exactly like the big woods we typically think of up north, but I think it's similar to that. So if I want to get on deer quickly, I've found that I'm better off to key in on edges created by vegetation before considering the topography of the area. With this in mind, my online scouting consists of looking an area over and marking edge or transition first, then switching to the topo layer and refining those waypoints slightly if they happen to be in very close proximity to a terrain feature (which creates another type of edge).

Now this is all just my opinion based on what I've experienced where I hunt. Your mileage may vary. I am not a big buck slayer, and you'll be much better served listening to other guys on this forum who are, especially if they hunt areas similar to yours. Welcome to the forum!

I agree. My best spots usually have both. For example a saddle that also has an edge running thru it. The more features in that one area generally the better it is. One of my best saddles that I hunt has a fence line that corners pretty much right in the middle of the saddle. It has 2 gaslines that cross the saddle like an X so you have woods/field edges, then there is also some extremely thick cover that edges with oak hardwoods on both sides as well. The combination of all the edges and topography works really well for it. It is a great stand pretty much anytime of the year. The funny thing is topography wise it isn't even as much of a saddle. There is a larger saddle a couple of hundred yards to the South of it, but it is more open and doesn't contain the edges so it barely gets used. All of the deer traffic is in this particular saddle which doesn't even show as a saddle on a topo map.