Do you hunt sign or terrain?

[oldrank]

Hot sign will be all over entrance and exit but will be impossible to hunt. On a calm day when leaves are wet a hunter can sneak in the back side and set up, aiming thermals at water hole. Set up top anywhere on first ridge and your pulling thermals to him.

[Grizzlyadam]

I don't know if terrain is the right word, rather known travel locations in relation to bedding areas. I focus on that first, then the sign will tell me if I want to set up or keep moving to the next travel route to see if the sign is there. Then there are areas where I will set up in without looking for sign before setting up because it's historically a productive spot and conditions are right for it.

[treeroot]

I believe there are some people who's natural ability to see/ read an area is above the average person. That isn't me.

This year I started laying a map out and figuring out where other people don't hunt. Then looking at what's left that gives a buck the wind/ thermal advantage given typical seasonal changes. I've had better luck going in blind based off terrain and typical known pressure. If I see sign there or on the way in i get a confidence boost. Basically go for broke and move on hunts. With only weekends I don't have time to stack beds/ bounce around bedding areas 4 days in a row to hunt a property down. If i blow it all up I'm switching properties and doing it again. With only one buck down since I went this aggressive its to early to tell if I was lucky or did something right.

I do know sitting back when I have limited time left me chasing ghosts, a week later things change. Going aggressive off terrain in my mind makes more sense.

[mauser06]

I've actually been thinking about this same thing.


All season I've been hunting various places somewhat blind based on topos and some of what I know from passing through in the past. Never really scouted it or stand hunted it.


2 weeks ago I was muzzleloader hunting and bucks weren't legal. Had a real nice buck come off a point he was likely bedded on. There wasn't any visible rubs or scrapes and I had him within 10 yards.

The next day I went to another spot based on topos and prior knowledge of a bedded buck and a scrape. I whiffed a great buck. Wasn't much sign at all. A scrape with no licking branch was it. Thermal tunnel pinch point with bedding points in the area.

Yesterday I walked through smoking sign. Nearly every tree was rubbed. Scrapes all over. Heading for another thermal tunnel pinch point. I dropped from the top to the ridge 100yds prior and wasnt seeing any sign and really started questioning hunting it. As I got to the exact spot I had marked, I did find a scrape that was worked within the last 24hrs or so.

As I was getting my sticks off my stand a bruiser busted out that looked like he was probably walking right for me.


Seems like the more mature bucks are cruising that thermal tunnel and in my area, the older bucks don't seem to lay the sign like the younger bucks do. 1.5-2.5yos seem to lay the majority of the sign from my experience.

Why'd I walk through all that smoking hot sign? It all seemed random. There wasn't a place that really stood out. I may have hunted it if I felt like it needed a hunt. But literally for 500 yards I couldn't look around and not see atleast 1 rub. It was on the ridge top where the oaks are more prevelent. My assumption is that's random feeding sign.

Between the leaves and Rocky ground, tracks are tough to come by but that was one thing I noticed as I walked into that spot yesterday. That buck may have already passed through there and heard me and came back to see what I was...I'm not sure..but a few places, I had big tracks crushed in leaves.


I've learned the mature buck is a different animal where they grow up dodging hunters.

I've actually yet to see a doe this season. (Didn't hunt much in the early season) and I've only seen 1 buck that wasnt in the 100"+ range. He was either a great 1.5yo or a small 2.5yo. I've seen 6 100"+ bucks. And for me, that's awesome.

[mipubbucks24]

Hopefully both at the same time. The hot sign in the right terrain feature. Mostly because I don’t use trail cams, it’s find the sign and then figure out where the bedding is and set up accordingly. Some times it’s over the sign like a primary scrape area, most of the time is trying to figure out how they use the terrain and set up there. The sign just lets me know that one is using the area. The good spots normally have both.

Are you looking for this sign on most hikes in? If you don't see something will you still hunt it that day?

I think for me alot may have to do with my work schedule too. I don't have time to hike around looking for something better. Most days I check wind, check my maps while I'm working and make a decision. It's hike in and set.

Basically yes I scout on the way in, if there is nothing there, and I have time I will pull out and try another spot, but some times I run out of time and just try to set up on terrain. I am mostly hunting small swamps and marshes. Everything that I am hunting is based around bedding. There is not real hill stuff. Also I am no where near the hunter that most on this sight are. What I have found on the public I hunt, is if I am not on really hot sign, I generally don’t see anything worth shooting, or anything at all.

This year has been a struggle for me on the public I hunt because there has been basically no sign and a lot of that is due to the general small size of the public, and there is so much corn up everywhere down here that the deer have not been pushed into the pressure bedding that I normally focus on so, it’s been different.

I have only seen 1 buck in public so far this year. He was a small 8 and I had about 15 seconds to make a decision to shoot, but I thought he was further away then he was, so I did not take any shots.

[stash59]

Hot sign will be all over entrance and exit but will be impossible to hunt. On a calm day when leaves are wet a hunter can sneak in the back side and set up, aiming thermals at water hole. Set up top anywhere on first ridge and your pulling thermals to him.

So roughly how big is that area?

It sounded like you just figured alot of the thermal pull stuff out on hunts. When you first started hunting this way. Example above seems pretty obvious how the thermals will pull into a bowl like that. Once you know how they work. But when do you figure spots out that don't have this bowl feature. Spring scouting. Or are these bedding areas so bullet proof that going in during season a couple of times. Still doesn't blow them outta there.

[Jmitch]

I think this is one of those questions that just depends where you are hunting? I'm hunting mostly hill country and i will say most of the areas with the "hottest" sign I typically cant hunt effective for wind reasons. Seems like the bottoms generally hold sign and look tore up and generally where I find scrapes but the hunting or atleast killing is easier on the ridge tops or high on the hills where the sign doesnt show as much but the wind/thermals are predictable. I was just thinking about this last night as I was walking in blind to a saddle on a ridge top. The valley i had to go thru had pretty good sign but I don't think I could sit it even if I wanted to. Then this morning I hunted a terran based travel area with very little sign even in a high deer density area and was covered up with bucks all morning.

[oldrank]

Hot sign will be all over entrance and exit but will be impossible to hunt. On a calm day when leaves are wet a hunter can sneak in the back side and set up, aiming thermals at water hole. Set up top anywhere on first ridge and your pulling thermals to him.

So roughly how big is that area?

It sounded like you just figured alot of the thermal pull stuff out on hunts. When you first started hunting this way. Example above seems pretty obvious how the thermals will pull into a bowl like that. Once you know how they work. But when do you figure spots out that don't have this bowl feature. Spring scouting. Or are these bedding areas so bullet proof that going in during season a couple of times. Still doesn't blow them outta there.

They never burn out, humans can't really get in them... Maybe the edges. So yes they are somewhat bullet proof. That's where they bed. That doesn't mean there is a big buck in everyone, everyday. If I hunt them right then, I will see deer alot. Eventually I will run into a buck I want to shoot.

As for the map, yes very basic. Yet still all of the treestands I find will be hung right on his exit where the hot sign is. That one I drew is just an example. Could vary in size. If it was 4 or 5 acres I would be over the ridge. 50 acres I would hunt it like I posted.

I figure them out through spring scouting, cyber scouting, winter snow scouting, but the number one way is by just hunting them and learning by seeing deer use them. Once I see a buck use an area even if it's an old scrape line or tracks or any deer trail I mark it on my Huntstand. I then check topos and satellite views looking for any advantage I can gain. So in a mile or two section over a few years of time I will have every deer trail, funnel, bedding area mapped out. So, to get back to the point of the thread. I don't have to see any "Hot" sign. I know the deer are there. I'm looking more at people vs security vs travel. Not sure if any of that makes sense ??? Haha.

[Dewey]

Both even in marshes. Looking at topos there really isn’t much terrain difference in them but when water is very high slight variations that don’t even show on a map will temporarily concentrate the bedding. In most cases anywhere if your not hunting both sign and terrain equally your likely missing out on the best opportunities. Deer only travel certain areas for a reason. You need to find the sign along with the terrain to get the entire picture. The best terrain in the world does absolutely nothing if the deer aren’t using it.

[stash59]

Yeah it makes alot of sense. I had a grasp on it. Just wanted you to clarify my thoughts. Thanx! I may never be in an area. Where I find myself in a similar situation. Just cool to learn how and why others do what they do. And it just shows how adaptable deer in general are. How adaptable we need to be!!!

[oldrank]

Both even in marshes. Looking at topos there really isn’t much terrain difference in them but when water is very high slight variations that don’t even show on a map will temporarily concentrate the bedding. In most cases anywhere if your not hunting both sign and terrain equally your likely missing out on the best opportunities. Deer only travel certain areas for a reason. You need to find the sign along with the terrain to get the entire picture. The best terrain in the world does absolutely nothing if the deer aren’t using it.

Kinda just like Stash was saying, I don't have giant Marsh terrain. I can get a grasp on what you guys do but it is a different world. So just a question. If you know a buck is in an area, let's say a giant marsh, can you get any type of a pattern on him? Or is it just to vast of an area?

[Dewey]

Both even in marshes. Looking at topos there really isn’t much terrain difference in them but when water is very high slight variations that don’t even show on a map will temporarily concentrate the bedding. In most cases anywhere if your not hunting both sign and terrain equally your likely missing out on the best opportunities. Deer only travel certain areas for a reason. You need to find the sign along with the terrain to get the entire picture. The best terrain in the world does absolutely nothing if the deer aren’t using it.

Kinda just like Stash was saying, I don't have giant Marsh terrain. I can get a grasp on what you guys do but it is a different world. So just a question. If you know a buck is in an area, let's say a giant marsh, can you get any type of a pattern on him? Or is it just to vast of an area?

It’s tough but can be done. Bucks favor certain areas for a reason. Most of the time that’s a super secure primary bed. If you can find that you can easily pattern until you get busted. During the rut forget it. I know Dan says it can still be done but I find it very inconsistent. Better off hunting terrain that the does favor then but I still like to see big tracks as well as doe sign especially on those cruising trails that pop up the same time every year.

[mipubbucks24]

The thing that you have done is you have a long history of keeping data that helps you not rely on sign. Which is awesome, and I hope to get there one day.

A great example is my last hunt on public. I went back to a spot where I shot and didn’t recover a buck last year. He was mature probably in the 140s. On the way in last year there were a few scrapes but a lot of rubs that kinda pointed to where I needed to be in the bedding.

Fast forward to this year last Monday night I was scouting my way in to hunt the same area, well there was very little sign, so I was not being very stealthy. Well right in the same area where I shot at the buck the year before, up jumps a lone deer and runs to the other side of the bedding, which is private.

So I figuring I blew that area I kept walking further along the edge of the bedding and finally started to get into decent sign. The problem was I had already blown the deer out of the bedding. He just had not put down the sign on the front side of the bedding.

Anyways on the way back out I blew him out of there again. It was a perfect bump and dump situation. Now I know for the future the exact area they like to bed and even if the sign is not there I will hunt it.

This is only my 4th full year beast hunting and I only can hunt public 1 Night a week due to my work schedule. So I am slowly putting the puzzle together but it takes time. I hope to one day be able to look at all the factors instead of just pieces of the puzzle.

[isitseasonyet?]

I have done much better with encounters with mature bucks in the last couple of years by hunting in areas that “seem Bucky” based on maps and and boots on the ground observation. That also have mature buck sign near by. (Where I think it was made in the day.)

However, it took me over 2 seasons to even see a mature buck on purpose. The next 2 to figure out a way to see one every year. And just the last couple seasons where I think I’m actually in the game, able to consistently find big buck sign, and be reasonably close. So take my view for what it’s worth. Maybe that’s just the learning phase that I’m in currently...

I think of it like fishing, you could have a lake with the best structure ever. But if it froze out, there ain’t no fish. So go to good structure, mark fish on the depth finder, then fish it, otherwise move on.

You could have a property with great features, but if there are no deer/ big bucks ( for a variety or reasons). It’s a waste of your time. I use the sign like a fish finder. If the sign is there, Hunt the nearest terrain feature. If not, I move on...

[1STRANGEWILDERNESS]

I am trying to focus more on sign these days,
Since joining the beast. Even pulled the plug a few times and said nope not hunting this..don’t see any big buck sign.. twice recently I went with my gut and set up but didn’t have the sign. Lo and behold somebody with some size was in the area. Gut, terrain, sign. That’s what I’m goin with.

Side note
Sign gets to be misleading when piles of sugar beats,
And corn start appearing all over the woods.. they like to bait em heavy here boy. Makes for a lot of late night action in strange parts of the woods I guess