Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby dan » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:30 pm

Mossyhorns wrote:
dan wrote:
Missionshooter wrote:Dan,

Great post!!

I noticed none were shot late season. What are your thoughts on why that is.

This is so counter thinking to how most people hunt. Most guys take off 2 weeks in November thinking they'll kill their mature buck cruising for does or coming to his calling looking for a fight. I hear guys rattling on public every year. I see their scent wicks while out scouting. I had a 3 yr old buck bed 60 yards from my tree at 715am on November 7th this year and thought, "why the he'll is he bedded this early during the rut?!?! He should be chasing does or cruising till at least 9am... It's Nov 7th!!!!"

Do you recommend that us novices start looking for scrapes like you describe where staging areas meet? (Obviously they won't always be there) Within 100 yards from bedding?

I have called in a lot of nice bucks, mostly when I see them and they are not coming to me. But, one buck that comes to mind a couple years ago was a mature buck that was casually walking up wind of me, and obviously not coming to me. It was a 1st time sit... I grunted to him then looked down to turn the camera on, when I looked back up I could not see him. I waited 5 minutes and new he had to still be right there I would of surly seen him leave so I grunted one more time and he jumped up from the grass and bolted out of there... Same call I had tricked dozens of 2 or 3 year olds with... Those bed scrapes are not real easy to find, but when you do find one, there golden.


What do you mean by bed scrapes?

If you search, I know there are some posts on that topic... But what it is, is a scrape where the staging area over laps with a staging area of another bedding area. Bucks don't do anything "randomly" there is a reason for things lake scrapes and such. Scrapes usually mark something. In this case its put where two rival bucks meet. Its usually within 100 yards of each bedding area. And the scrape is used when ever bucks are actively using the beds. I shot one of my vary biggest bucks on such a scrape opening weekend in early September when most think scrapes are not out yet.


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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby dan » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:36 pm

brkissl82 wrote:
dan wrote:Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Lets take a closer look at my top 10 bow killed bucks (I did not include gun kills) and see what factors that lead up to the kill were consistent to what percent. What is interesting about these stats is the mature buck stats vary greatly from the stats of the "nice" middle age bucks I have taken (mature bucks used in this study are believed to be 4 years old or more) . This to me really shows the need to "hunt for mature bucks" in order to kill mature bucks consistently. Its like mature bucks are a whole different animal. Hunting for deer and expecting to kill a mature buck is like hunting rabbits hoping for pheasants.

Killed within 300 yards of bedding area - 10 (100%)

Killed within 100 yards of bedding area - 8 (80%)

Killed at a scrape where the intersection of two staging areas met - 4 (40%)

1st time ever sit - 4 (40%)

1st time that year (includes 1st ever sits) - 6 (60%)

2nd or 3rd sit - 2 (20%)

Shot in Sept, - 3 (30%)

Shot in Oct - 4 (40%)

Shot in Nov - 3 (30%)

Shot in the eve. - 9 (90%)

Shot in morning - 1 (10%)

calls used- 0

Scents used- 0

Was hunting the buck I shot - 8 (80%)

Hunted buck for 2 or more seasons - 3 (30%)

Within 200 yards of the road - 2 (20%)

Killed at a crop field or food plot - 0

I was a little surprised at the results of this too. It took me looking at each of the bucks and remembering where and how it was killed and writing down the answers... The reason I post this is for you to compare how these bucks got killed, and think about your approach, and to consider if your putting yourself in position for for nice bucks, or the giants...

I think at age 4 bucks really start to get smart. Especially on pressured properties. They learn to move short distances in safe areas in daylight, they learn where all the hunting spots are on the property, and how to avoid them. They pick bedding spots that watch you access or smell your approach. You either have to get real lucky, or make smart, well thought, precision moves.

When I look at the other deer I have shot below my top 10 (2 & 3 year olds mostly) You start to see the funnel stands pay off more that are hunted over and over, you see a lot more random kills of deer that just wandered past, you see deer shot over food, and you see a lot more rut kills.

Just like the bucks jump up in intelligence at a certain point, hunters can either get to the point of shooting "nice" 110 to 130 inch bucks every year and never excel, or they can start hunting a new and smarter animal and raise the bar. Now, don't take me wrong, there is nothing wrong with shooting 110 to 130 inch bucks, but if you want to occasionally take the occasional giant, you might want to hunt for giants.



Dan, can i ask out of those 10 Bucks how many were under a .25mile (overlooked) and how many were deep (>1mile)

2 were were 200 yards or less from the road as mentioned... After that it gets a little grey, which is why I did not include a far distance. I want to say 3 or 4 were within that .25 mile you mention, but there scattered all sorts of distances after that from that 1/4 mile to a mile. All were in over looked spots that get little human attention.
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby Mossyhorns » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:31 am

dan wrote:
Mossyhorns wrote:
dan wrote:
Missionshooter wrote:Dan,

Great post!!

I noticed none were shot late season. What are your thoughts on why that is.

This is so counter thinking to how most people hunt. Most guys take off 2 weeks in November thinking they'll kill their mature buck cruising for does or coming to his calling looking for a fight. I hear guys rattling on public every year. I see their scent wicks while out scouting. I had a 3 yr old buck bed 60 yards from my tree at 715am on November 7th this year and thought, "why the he'll is he bedded this early during the rut?!?! He should be chasing does or cruising till at least 9am... It's Nov 7th!!!!"

Do you recommend that us novices start looking for scrapes like you describe where staging areas meet? (Obviously they won't always be there) Within 100 yards from bedding?

I have called in a lot of nice bucks, mostly when I see them and they are not coming to me. But, one buck that comes to mind a couple years ago was a mature buck that was casually walking up wind of me, and obviously not coming to me. It was a 1st time sit... I grunted to him then looked down to turn the camera on, when I looked back up I could not see him. I waited 5 minutes and new he had to still be right there I would of surly seen him leave so I grunted one more time and he jumped up from the grass and bolted out of there... Same call I had tricked dozens of 2 or 3 year olds with... Those bed scrapes are not real easy to find, but when you do find one, there golden.


What do you mean by bed scrapes?

If you search, I know there are some posts on that topic... But what it is, is a scrape where the staging area over laps with a staging area of another bedding area. Bucks don't do anything "randomly" there is a reason for things lake scrapes and such. Scrapes usually mark something. In this case its put where two rival bucks meet. Its usually within 100 yards of each bedding area. And the scrape is used when ever bucks are actively using the beds. I shot one of my vary biggest bucks on such a scrape opening weekend in early September when most think scrapes are not out yet.

So basically you could maybe have one buck bedding on say a 80 acre parcel, it could ridges, swamps, whatever and then at the same time you could have another totally different buck covering another adjacent 80 acre parcel but at the same time both may get real close to each other on the edge of where there bedroom is because both are covering different sets of ground but the fringes of those grounds still get real close and they could be marking on the same set of sign.... or am I totally out of the park
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby brkissl82 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:35 am

dan wrote:
brkissl82 wrote:
dan wrote:Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Lets take a closer look at my top 10 bow killed bucks (I did not include gun kills) and see what factors that lead up to the kill were consistent to what percent. What is interesting about these stats is the mature buck stats vary greatly from the stats of the "nice" middle age bucks I have taken (mature bucks used in this study are believed to be 4 years old or more) . This to me really shows the need to "hunt for mature bucks" in order to kill mature bucks consistently. Its like mature bucks are a whole different animal. Hunting for deer and expecting to kill a mature buck is like hunting rabbits hoping for pheasants.

Killed within 300 yards of bedding area - 10 (100%)

Killed within 100 yards of bedding area - 8 (80%)

Killed at a scrape where the intersection of two staging areas met - 4 (40%)

1st time ever sit - 4 (40%)

1st time that year (includes 1st ever sits) - 6 (60%)

2nd or 3rd sit - 2 (20%)

Shot in Sept, - 3 (30%)

Shot in Oct - 4 (40%)

Shot in Nov - 3 (30%)

Shot in the eve. - 9 (90%)

Shot in morning - 1 (10%)

calls used- 0

Scents used- 0

Was hunting the buck I shot - 8 (80%)

Hunted buck for 2 or more seasons - 3 (30%)

Within 200 yards of the road - 2 (20%)

Killed at a crop field or food plot - 0

I was a little surprised at the results of this too. It took me looking at each of the bucks and remembering where and how it was killed and writing down the answers... The reason I post this is for you to compare how these bucks got killed, and think about your approach, and to consider if your putting yourself in position for for nice bucks, or the giants...

I think at age 4 bucks really start to get smart. Especially on pressured properties. They learn to move short distances in safe areas in daylight, they learn where all the hunting spots are on the property, and how to avoid them. They pick bedding spots that watch you access or smell your approach. You either have to get real lucky, or make smart, well thought, precision moves.

When I look at the other deer I have shot below my top 10 (2 & 3 year olds mostly) You start to see the funnel stands pay off more that are hunted over and over, you see a lot more random kills of deer that just wandered past, you see deer shot over food, and you see a lot more rut kills.

Just like the bucks jump up in intelligence at a certain point, hunters can either get to the point of shooting "nice" 110 to 130 inch bucks every year and never excel, or they can start hunting a new and smarter animal and raise the bar. Now, don't take me wrong, there is nothing wrong with shooting 110 to 130 inch bucks, but if you want to occasionally take the occasional giant, you might want to hunt for giants.



Dan, can i ask out of those 10 Bucks how many were under a .25mile (overlooked) and how many were deep (>1mile)

2 were were 200 yards or less from the road as mentioned... After that it gets a little grey, which is why I did not include a far distance. I want to say 3 or 4 were within that .25 mile you mention, but there scattered all sorts of distances after that from that 1/4 mile to a mile. All were in over looked spots that get little human attention.


I knew I used the wrong wording by saying over looked haha. I was gona say I'm sure they are all over looked if they hold big deer
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby dan » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:15 am

Mossyhorns wrote:
dan wrote:
Mossyhorns wrote:
dan wrote:
Missionshooter wrote:Dan,

Great post!!

I noticed none were shot late season. What are your thoughts on why that is.

This is so counter thinking to how most people hunt. Most guys take off 2 weeks in November thinking they'll kill their mature buck cruising for does or coming to his calling looking for a fight. I hear guys rattling on public every year. I see their scent wicks while out scouting. I had a 3 yr old buck bed 60 yards from my tree at 715am on November 7th this year and thought, "why the he'll is he bedded this early during the rut?!?! He should be chasing does or cruising till at least 9am... It's Nov 7th!!!!"

Do you recommend that us novices start looking for scrapes like you describe where staging areas meet? (Obviously they won't always be there) Within 100 yards from bedding?

I have called in a lot of nice bucks, mostly when I see them and they are not coming to me. But, one buck that comes to mind a couple years ago was a mature buck that was casually walking up wind of me, and obviously not coming to me. It was a 1st time sit... I grunted to him then looked down to turn the camera on, when I looked back up I could not see him. I waited 5 minutes and new he had to still be right there I would of surly seen him leave so I grunted one more time and he jumped up from the grass and bolted out of there... Same call I had tricked dozens of 2 or 3 year olds with... Those bed scrapes are not real easy to find, but when you do find one, there golden.


What do you mean by bed scrapes?

If you search, I know there are some posts on that topic... But what it is, is a scrape where the staging area over laps with a staging area of another bedding area. Bucks don't do anything "randomly" there is a reason for things lake scrapes and such. Scrapes usually mark something. In this case its put where two rival bucks meet. Its usually within 100 yards of each bedding area. And the scrape is used when ever bucks are actively using the beds. I shot one of my vary biggest bucks on such a scrape opening weekend in early September when most think scrapes are not out yet.

So basically you could maybe have one buck bedding on say a 80 acre parcel, it could ridges, swamps, whatever and then at the same time you could have another totally different buck covering another adjacent 80 acre parcel but at the same time both may get real close to each other on the edge of where there bedroom is because both are covering different sets of ground but the fringes of those grounds still get real close and they could be marking on the same set of sign.... or am I totally out of the park

Your "kinda" right... Usually this occurs when the bucks are bedding very close to each other. Like within 200 yards.
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby Mossyhorns » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:38 am

that makes sense
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby hunter10 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:25 pm

Telling information forsure. I find myself during the rut easy back to the funnels when more action would be had if I continued pushing closer to bedding
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby Missionshooter » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:47 pm

hunter10 wrote:Telling information forsure. I find myself during the rut easy back to the funnels when more action would be had if I continued pushing closer to bedding


Me too! I need to kick the habit. I learned that hunting private ground. Now as a public only hunter, I need to hunt strictly like dan and forget the funnels.
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby Thesouthpaw » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:57 am

What we really want to know is how many of them were killed while wearing blue jeans and a flannel?
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby d_rek » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:44 am

That's some great information. Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby SC_z7 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:41 am

This is great information! I found the "first time" sits stats really interesting. It leads me to a question on when you choose to throw a second, third, or more (2 out of 10 killed) sit at a given location. Is it based on a sighting of a mature buck but no shot? If the sign is there you keep going back if you have the right conditions? Or the places you go back for multiple sits is where you have past history of encounters? What plays into trusting a given spot for another sit for you/anyone?
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby dan » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:27 am

SC_z7 wrote:This is great information! I found the "first time" sits stats really interesting. It leads me to a question on when you choose to throw a second, third, or more (2 out of 10 killed) sit at a given location. Is it based on a sighting of a mature buck but no shot? If the sign is there you keep going back if you have the right conditions? Or the places you go back for multiple sits is where you have past history of encounters? What plays into trusting a given spot for another sit for you/anyone?

1ST time sits for my biggest bucks have usually come from an observation of that buck from a distance, but that stat goes beyond my top 10, and a lot of the bucks I have shot on 1st sits were by finding hot sign and setting up on it that day before a buck could smell me, or scouting in winter and then hunting it for the 1st time that next fall.
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby SC_z7 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:51 pm

dan wrote:
SC_z7 wrote:This is great information! I found the "first time" sits stats really interesting. It leads me to a question on when you choose to throw a second, third, or more (2 out of 10 killed) sit at a given location. Is it based on a sighting of a mature buck but no shot? If the sign is there you keep going back if you have the right conditions? Or the places you go back for multiple sits is where you have past history of encounters? What plays into trusting a given spot for another sit for you/anyone?

1ST time sits for my biggest bucks have usually come from an observation of that buck from a distance, but that stat goes beyond my top 10, and a lot of the bucks I have shot on 1st sits were by finding hot sign and setting up on it that day before a buck could smell me, or scouting in winter and then hunting it for the 1st time that next fall.


If I was reading it right, 40% of the mature bucks you have shot have been on a sit that wasn't your first sit of the year. What has led you to going back again? Is it generally laying eyes on the deer but not getting a shot? Trusting the sign you have scouted? I am sure there is not a one size fits all answer to the question, just curious what generally makes you go back to the same set.

Relating back to my experience and what I am picking up on the DVD's and forum, i definitely get too committed to one spot and need to do more scouting to put more pins on the map. But there are times where it makes sense to hunt the same location multiple times.
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby dan » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:21 am

SC_z7 wrote:
dan wrote:
SC_z7 wrote:This is great information! I found the "first time" sits stats really interesting. It leads me to a question on when you choose to throw a second, third, or more (2 out of 10 killed) sit at a given location. Is it based on a sighting of a mature buck but no shot? If the sign is there you keep going back if you have the right conditions? Or the places you go back for multiple sits is where you have past history of encounters? What plays into trusting a given spot for another sit for you/anyone?

1ST time sits for my biggest bucks have usually come from an observation of that buck from a distance, but that stat goes beyond my top 10, and a lot of the bucks I have shot on 1st sits were by finding hot sign and setting up on it that day before a buck could smell me, or scouting in winter and then hunting it for the 1st time that next fall.


If I was reading it right, 40% of the mature bucks you have shot have been on a sit that wasn't your first sit of the year. What has led you to going back again? Is it generally laying eyes on the deer but not getting a shot? Trusting the sign you have scouted? I am sure there is not a one size fits all answer to the question, just curious what generally makes you go back to the same set.

Relating back to my experience and what I am picking up on the DVD's and forum, i definitely get too committed to one spot and need to do more scouting to put more pins on the map. But there are times where it makes sense to hunt the same location multiple times.

Notice that 60% were either a 1st sit, or at least 1st that year.... Of the 20% that were 1st that year, its a great bedding area known to hold big bucks when there in that area. New the buck was in the area, and sat the historical spot, of the remaining 40% its knowing the buck is there, or is using that area and taking another try at him.
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Re: Hunting rabbits, hoping for pheasants...

Unread postby tim » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:45 am

Good stuff here. I notice your kills come in the evening mostly. I’m the opposite mine are All morning to late morning I believe until this year. I just killed my first mature buck on oct 14 at 350 in the afternoon. I just always get them in the morning and I don’t hunt less in the evening. I’m wondering how many of those evening kills are early season kills because you are mostly hunting evenings as opposed to later in the season when morning hunting heats up and you are already tagged out?


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