Mature Bucks
- ScottSpitzley
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Mature Bucks
"Mature" definition:
adjective
"fully developed physically; full-grown."
We hear it all the time. "Mature bucks are 4+ years or older", some may even think they aren't mature until 5 years or older, to each their own.
I live in Michigan and I have got to say that a 3-year-old to me is experienced. They don't go running around like a 1.5 bucks do during broad daylight , and I do not see 2.5 year old bucks acting like A 1.5-year-old all the time either. A 3-year-old can be very hard to come across where I am, let alone a 4+ year old. This is based on where I hunt, not speaking for anyone else.
I am firm believer that bucks get smarter from all the pressure in my area, making them experienced at a quicker rate, but that doesn't necessarily make them Mature based on the definition, and most seem to classify that age not being so either.
I have killed 3-year-old bucks in the areas I hunt in Michigan, nothing older, does that mean I have not killed a mature buck in Michigan? Just a more experienced 3-year-old buck compared to the 3-year-old in Iowa? Or do you believe they act the same and they are just not Mature altogether?
adjective
"fully developed physically; full-grown."
We hear it all the time. "Mature bucks are 4+ years or older", some may even think they aren't mature until 5 years or older, to each their own.
I live in Michigan and I have got to say that a 3-year-old to me is experienced. They don't go running around like a 1.5 bucks do during broad daylight , and I do not see 2.5 year old bucks acting like A 1.5-year-old all the time either. A 3-year-old can be very hard to come across where I am, let alone a 4+ year old. This is based on where I hunt, not speaking for anyone else.
I am firm believer that bucks get smarter from all the pressure in my area, making them experienced at a quicker rate, but that doesn't necessarily make them Mature based on the definition, and most seem to classify that age not being so either.
I have killed 3-year-old bucks in the areas I hunt in Michigan, nothing older, does that mean I have not killed a mature buck in Michigan? Just a more experienced 3-year-old buck compared to the 3-year-old in Iowa? Or do you believe they act the same and they are just not Mature altogether?
- elk yinzer
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Re: Mature Bucks
TL;DR version – it’s just another buzzword people use to distinguish their accomplishments, because we are men, we compete and measure things, and god forbid someone acknowledge it’s just a dang deer and you really didn’t accomplish anything that special. If it makes you happy, kill it, brag to your family and friends, and move onto killing the next one.
Full rant - Physical or biological maturity happens at around 18 months in O. Virginianus. When we use the buzzword in the huntin' context, we are really discussing a continuum of time and the presumed acquisition of character traits, right? An older deer is more mature and smarter than a younger deer. Well hot dang, you don’t say, I guess maturity explains all the stupid crap I did in college.
All factors being equal, I somewhat agree. I appreciate the emphasis on age over antler size. It's at least somewhat of an equalizer. But as you alluded to, neither is comparable across the board due to geography and pressure, among other factors. There is no magic threshold that makes killing a certain age respectable.
But it seems one accomplishes more by outsmarting an older deer. If you have the trailcam history to prove your case, more reputation points, dude. Coin a name on that joker and now you’ve really accomplished something worthy of bragging to the dudes about.
I may seem like am hating on it, but I get it. Just stating the facts as I see them. I think it’s largely a Midwest thing too, that grew out of the deer husbandry emphasis of TV hunting. History with certain animals. I get it, that’s cool, but it’s not how everyone has to or wants to approach hunting. Most guys are just doing it to relax and get away. Because whitetail hunting media is so Midwest-centric, that has become the predominant thought process for many. We consume the media and adopt its norms and standards. I do see that changing to a degree.
There are many other different measuring sticks. Look at the Northeast US, where primary emphasis is placed on a buck’s body weight.. Deep South I’ve seen emphasis on whacking and stacking, kill counts. Just filling a tag every year is a measure. Look at mountain hunting, sitka athlete crowd, where emphasis is placed on the adventure and experience. Bird hunters, fowlers, all those have their own little cliques and tribes too. Just different cultures with different measuring sticks. Because, testosterone, I guess.
Full rant - Physical or biological maturity happens at around 18 months in O. Virginianus. When we use the buzzword in the huntin' context, we are really discussing a continuum of time and the presumed acquisition of character traits, right? An older deer is more mature and smarter than a younger deer. Well hot dang, you don’t say, I guess maturity explains all the stupid crap I did in college.
All factors being equal, I somewhat agree. I appreciate the emphasis on age over antler size. It's at least somewhat of an equalizer. But as you alluded to, neither is comparable across the board due to geography and pressure, among other factors. There is no magic threshold that makes killing a certain age respectable.
But it seems one accomplishes more by outsmarting an older deer. If you have the trailcam history to prove your case, more reputation points, dude. Coin a name on that joker and now you’ve really accomplished something worthy of bragging to the dudes about.
I may seem like am hating on it, but I get it. Just stating the facts as I see them. I think it’s largely a Midwest thing too, that grew out of the deer husbandry emphasis of TV hunting. History with certain animals. I get it, that’s cool, but it’s not how everyone has to or wants to approach hunting. Most guys are just doing it to relax and get away. Because whitetail hunting media is so Midwest-centric, that has become the predominant thought process for many. We consume the media and adopt its norms and standards. I do see that changing to a degree.
There are many other different measuring sticks. Look at the Northeast US, where primary emphasis is placed on a buck’s body weight.. Deep South I’ve seen emphasis on whacking and stacking, kill counts. Just filling a tag every year is a measure. Look at mountain hunting, sitka athlete crowd, where emphasis is placed on the adventure and experience. Bird hunters, fowlers, all those have their own little cliques and tribes too. Just different cultures with different measuring sticks. Because, testosterone, I guess.
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- <DK>
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Re: Mature Bucks
ScottSpitzley wrote:I live in Michigan and I have got to say that a 3-year-old to me is experienced.
Yep I agree w that for sure. Try telling a PA guy his 3yr old 125" buck isnt smart. There are always older, bigger or mature deer around but to me what youre saying is just like a young man that was forced to grow up quicker than the rest of people bc of his surroundings. Every state is different and even varies my region or county in those states.
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Re: Mature Bucks
I still think a 4+ year old buck is truly maturing and starts becoming ghostly. Thats not to say a 3yr old cant act that way but those old, ghostly bucks are freaky
- magicman54494
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Re: Mature Bucks
They did a genetics test on the Michigan deer and found the "stupid" gene to be dominant. Those deer were originally brought over from Poland. Around the turn of the century someone accidentally released a bunch of blond does. Mentally, those Michigan deer are about as bright as a 15 watt bulb.
Its amazing they are even smart enough to reproduce.
That is why there is no age structure in Michigan.
Its amazing they are even smart enough to reproduce.
That is why there is no age structure in Michigan.
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- ScottSpitzley
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Re: Mature Bucks
magicman54494 wrote:They did a genetics test on the Michigan deer and found the "stupid" gene to be dominant. Those deer were originally brought over from Poland. Around the turn of the century someone accidentally released a bunch of blond does. Mentally, those Michigan deer are about as bright as a 15 watt bulb.
Its amazing they are even smart enough to reproduce.
That is why there is no age structure in Michigan.
I can always count on you to turn any post humorous.
I am part polock though, so hunting these polish deer can still be tough for me. Lmao.
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Re: Mature Bucks
To me its the deers body size and antler size. I try to shoot bucks that are usually 4 1/2 yo or older because you pretty much see what you get. I don't see a 125" 4 1/2 public land buck blowing up to a 170" however, a 3 1/2 yo could though (but i wont pass on anything over P&Y).
I honestly believe public land pressured deer hold a -20" and a year more experience. So those 125'' 3 1/2 olds are 145" 4 1/2 yos to me, and thats a mature trophy deer in my book.
I honestly believe public land pressured deer hold a -20" and a year more experience. So those 125'' 3 1/2 olds are 145" 4 1/2 yos to me, and thats a mature trophy deer in my book.
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Re: Mature Bucks
magicman54494 wrote:They did a genetics test on the Michigan deer and found the "stupid" gene to be dominant. Those deer were originally brought over from Poland. Around the turn of the century someone accidentally released a bunch of blond does. Mentally, those Michigan deer are about as bright as a 15 watt bulb.
Its amazing they are even smart enough to reproduce.
That is why there is no age structure in Michigan.
You know why the blond Doe wears hoop earrings?
A place to put her hooves...
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Re: Mature Bucks
magicman54494 wrote:They did a genetics test on the Michigan deer and found the "stupid" gene to be dominant. Those deer were originally brought over from Poland. Around the turn of the century someone accidentally released a bunch of blond does. Mentally, those Michigan deer are about as bright as a 15 watt bulb.
Its amazing they are even smart enough to reproduce.
That is why there is no age structure in Michigan.
That explains why Pa deer have terrible age structure. Back when my Grandfather was a young man they brought deer in from Michigan on train cars to help rebuild the population.
Did you hear about the Pole who said no?
- ScottSpitzley
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Re: Mature Bucks
Kcbuckeye22 wrote:To me its the deers body size and antler size. I try to shoot bucks that are usually 4 1/2 yo or older because you pretty much see what you get. I don't see a 125" 4 1/2 public land buck blowing up to a 170" however, a 3 1/2 yo could though (but i wont pass on anything over P&Y).
Not really sure what you're getting at here.
Kcbuckeye22 wrote:I honestly believe public land pressured deer hold a -20" and a year more experience. So those 125'' 3 1/2 olds are 145" 4 1/2 yos to me, and thats a mature trophy deer in my book.
I don't necessarily care about score, nor do I believe that it labels the bucks age. I have seen a 2 year old "score" more than a 4 year old.
A "130" 2 year old isnt necessarily smarter than a "120" warrior, get my drift? I think nutrition plays a huge factor in antler growth, more than people think.
The whole point of this post was stating that basing buck maturity by age can be misleading as it varies how "mature" or "experienced" depending on location. I am sure I hunt the 3 year olds here, the same way a guy would hunt a 5 year old in Iowa. Just my opinion.
- elk yinzer
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Re: Mature Bucks
Bucks have individual personalities too. I believe for lack of a better term the dumb ones grow to older ages in some states with less hunting pressure. Heck just statistics, look at a map of hunter density. The dumb aggressive 2 and 3 year olds here become jerky and bologna. Some states mostly West of here they have a chance.
Last edited by elk yinzer on Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- magicman54494
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Re: Mature Bucks
Regardless of where they are, they seem to behave differently in different age groups. young bucks are foolish and take huge risks. This seems to slow down to age 3. They just seem to become a different animal at 4+. They are smart, and very seldom move during the day. Then when they get old 7+ or so they seem to get dumb again.
These are generalizations and each buck is different and personality plays a huge role in this as well.
I really think a lot of bucks that survive in high pressure areas do so because of their personality more than anything. Some bucks are just home bodies and non agressive and do not go crazy during the rut. These bucks have a huge advantage.
These are generalizations and each buck is different and personality plays a huge role in this as well.
I really think a lot of bucks that survive in high pressure areas do so because of their personality more than anything. Some bucks are just home bodies and non agressive and do not go crazy during the rut. These bucks have a huge advantage.
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- ghoasthunter
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Re: Mature Bucks
ScottSpitzley wrote:Kcbuckeye22 wrote:To me its the deers body size and antler size. I try to shoot bucks that are usually 4 1/2 yo or older because you pretty much see what you get. I don't see a 125" 4 1/2 public land buck blowing up to a 170" however, a 3 1/2 yo could though (but i wont pass on anything over P&Y).
Not really sure what you're getting at here.Kcbuckeye22 wrote:I honestly believe public land pressured deer hold a -20" and a year more experience. So those 125'' 3 1/2 olds are 145" 4 1/2 yos to me, and thats a mature trophy deer in my book.
I don't necessarily care about score, nor do I believe that it labels the bucks age. I have seen a 2 year old "score" more than a 4 year old.
A "130" 2 year old isnt necessarily smarter than a "120" warrior, get my drift? I think nutrition plays a huge factor in antler growth, more than people think.
The whole point of this post was stating that basing buck maturity by age can be misleading as it varies how "mature" or "experienced" depending on location. I am sure I hunt the 3 year olds here, the same way a guy would hunt a 5 year old in Iowa. Just my opinion.
i agree a 3 year old buck in my neck of woods is one challenging beast and i think any buck of that age and higher is equally challenging for my home turf. the biggest challenge i face is even finding a buck in the 4 year range they are like finding unicorns on public
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Re: Mature Bucks
Grasshopper wrote:magicman54494 wrote:They did a genetics test on the Michigan deer and found the "stupid" gene to be dominant. Those deer were originally brought over from Poland. Around the turn of the century someone accidentally released a bunch of blond does. Mentally, those Michigan deer are about as bright as a 15 watt bulb.
Its amazing they are even smart enough to reproduce.
That is why there is no age structure in Michigan.
That explains why Pa deer have terrible age structure. Back when my Grandfather was a young man they brought deer in from Michigan on train cars to help rebuild the population.
Did you hear about the Pole who said no?
Ive been told by people they did the same thing in New Jersey back in the day.
These deer were shipped in from Wisconsin though
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Re: Mature Bucks
elk yinzer wrote:Bucks have individual personalities too. I believe for lack of a better term the dumb ones grow to older ages in some states with less hunting pressure. Heck just statistics, look at a map of hunter density. The dumb aggressive 2 and 3 year olds here become jerky and bologna. Some states mostly West of here they have a chance.
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