Buck Succession

[fireforeffect]

I'd like to hear about some of your observations regarding "succession". I find deer herd heirarchy fascinating. Have you seen one buck take over a prefferred area after the dominant buck was killed? Was it the next buck in line or was it an interloper?

I'll start. I killed what I believe was the dominant buck on a particular property on November 10, 2017. Days later this guy shows up and starts laying down some big rubs and scrapes.

20171123_130718.jpg

I'm not sure if he has taken up residence, but I am fairly sure that he was a noncore buck prior to this. He may still be living on another property. I only had one pic of him prior to this pic, and it was way back in July. You had better believe that I am trying to piece together this puzzle. If I determine that he has indeed switched his core area to fill the vacuum left by another buck, I will update this post. Frankly, I would be surprised. Bucks reach maturity by finding a safe area to call home and I am skeptical that one would abandon an area that he is comfortable to relocate to another area, even if that area is somehow superior. I would have just wrote this appearance off as him making his rounds during the rut, but the sign that he layed down makes me think that he might be hanging around. Only time will tell.

What have been your observations regarding the pecking order of the bucks in your neck of the woods?

[fireforeffect]

Still can't post pics....

[llcooljames]

This is an interesting topic. I have thought about it, but never witnessed it in person. Im tuned in for more replies!

[Tim H]

I'm curious on this topic myself. I believe it happens yet I've never hunted a property more than a couple years so I wouldn't be able to confirm it. I'm sure others who have hunted the same properties for 10 plus years can shed light on it.

[fireforeffect]

I should mention that on this particular parcel there were numerous 2 1/2 year old bucks that were jockeying for position. I figured that one of those bucks would step into the alpha role when the resident monarch was eliminated. I'm not so sure now.

[Jdaukontas]

No expert, but I would think if there are does in the area and no dominate buck to claim them, a mature buck will absolutely take over that area in the rut. And being that the best rut bedding is limited, the mature buck will take over the previous bucks rut bedding if I had to guess. Which is why I believe bedding is so important, as stressed on the thread. There is primary bedding and rut bedding, BOTH can lead to amazing results. I have spent the last two years trying to pin down rut bedding on many properties I hunt because I think there is more variability in buck movement around these bedding areas during the rut which is no secret, and increases my odds of taking a nice buck. I have only attempted an early season setup on primary bedding a few times, but have found it to be more difficult and almost compare it to a developed art.

To come back, I would say YES, another buck will take over, especially if there are does and its the rut.

[Hawthorne]

My best private spots would hold a 3.5 year old buck every year. They all had every thing a deer needs and where the best farms in the section for habitat. Most years if the dominant buck was killed in late October or later another mature buck wouldn’t show up till the next year. I haven’t been hunting enough public to have history like that but some guys say a mature buck might only show up every few years. This is Michigan so I’m sure it’s different in lower pressure areas.

[Stanley]

I killed a boss buck about 10 years ago. He was big bodied (245 lbs dressed) and a bully. He ran off after being arrowed. I couldn't see him but I saw a nice 10 point head in the direction the boss buck went. The 10 pointer gored the downed buck making all kinds of noise in the process. When I retrieved the boss buck he was full of holes from being gored by the 10 point. About 2 weeks later I killed the 10 pointer. He wasn't Boss for very long.

[rfickes87]

I killed a boss buck about 10 years ago. He was big bodied (245 lbs dressed) and a bully. He ran off after being arrowed. I couldn't see him but I saw a nice 10 point head in the direction the boss buck went. The 10 pointer gored the downed buck making all kinds of noise in the process. When I retrieved the boss buck he was full of holes from being gored by the 10 point. About 2 weeks later I killed the 10 pointer. He wasn't Boss for very long.

Dang! That's an awesome story! Sounds like some awesome bucks I can only imagine.

I have a similar story... just smaller scale

I shot a half rack 8 pointer the year before last with the bow, Nov 12th. Seconds after the shot, a little fork horn ran up over the hill looking for him. My buck was still alive for a few moments while the fork horn gored him. I felt bad. Nature can be cruel! He would even paw the ground and then charge him. Then he walked a circle around him after he was dead acting all tough and then came back and gored him again. I have it on film. One of the craziest things I ever saw.

[fireforeffect]

I killed a boss buck about 10 years ago. He was big bodied (245 lbs dressed) and a bully. He ran off after being arrowed. I couldn't see him but I saw a nice 10 point head in the direction the boss buck went. The 10 pointer gored the downed buck making all kinds of noise in the process. When I retrieved the boss buck he was full of holes from being gored by the 10 point. About 2 weeks later I killed the 10 pointer. He wasn't Boss for very long.

Dang! That's an awesome story! Sounds like some awesome bucks I can only imagine.

I have a similar story... just smaller scale

I shot a half rack 8 pointer the year before last with the bow, Nov 12th. Seconds after the shot, a little fork horn ran up over the hill looking for him. My buck was still alive for a few moments while the fork horn gored him. I felt bad. Nature can be cruel! He would even paw the ground and then charge him. Then he walked a circle around him after he was dead acting all tough and then came back and gored him again. I have it on film. One of the craziest things I ever saw.

Wow! Great stories!

Animals are quick to exploit any perceived weakness that their rivals may have. Maybe someone should manufacture a buck in distress call!

[Ragingun]

I believe a couple things in relation to the original post. First, it very well could be that the buck the OP said moved into the buck's area that was shot was in fact the dominant buck but until that time he had other does closer to his prime area. Secondly, it was mentioned above that if there are does in an area that a dominant buck will move into the area during the rut. That is always likely but not always the case. It depends on the how many bucks are in that area and specifically how many dominant bucks in the area. If a dominant buck is getting his fill of does where he is he will not be moving to another area even if there is only insubordinate bucks there. I believe that is why we have does that go into second estrus more times than not. Some does, particularly mature does will not cave to a young bucks pestering. I do not have evidence to back up the last points but rather small parts of observations over the years.

[dewayne]

Those are some cool stories and one of the reasons I keep coming back.

[brancher147]

I have never seen any pecking order or buck succession in the big woods I typically hunt. But I move around a good bit. Typically the bucks are in different areas which could be miles apart every year depending mostly on mast conditions.

[Octang]

I killed a boss buck about 10 years ago. He was big bodied (245 lbs dressed) and a bully. He ran off after being arrowed. I couldn't see him but I saw a nice 10 point head in the direction the boss buck went. The 10 pointer gored the downed buck making all kinds of noise in the process. When I retrieved the boss buck he was full of holes from being gored by the 10 point. About 2 weeks later I killed the 10 pointer. He wasn't Boss for very long.

Dang! That's an awesome story! Sounds like some awesome bucks I can only imagine.

I have a similar story... just smaller scale

I shot a half rack 8 pointer the year before last with the bow, Nov 12th. Seconds after the shot, a little fork horn ran up over the hill looking for him. My buck was still alive for a few moments while the fork horn gored him. I felt bad. Nature can be cruel! He would even paw the ground and then charge him. Then he walked a circle around him after he was dead acting all tough and then came back and gored him again. I have it on film. One of the craziest things I ever saw.

I need to see this film! :)

I had the opposite experience. I shot a great 10 pointer and it laid dead 15 yards from my treestand while I just sat in my stand killing time to make sure it was really dead. During that time a little basket buck came walking down the same trail and when it stumbled upon the brute lying on the ground the smaller buck literally jumped in surprise and turned around and left the way he came from.

[Lockdown]

I see pecking order changes in Oscar’s area. For those who don’t know, Oscars is a small 10 acre grove that holds resident does with prime property on both sides. I hunt it exclusively during rut.

I’ve hunted this property since 2011 and ran cam in it the year prior. I’ve camera bombed this place several times, having as many as 3 in there at once on a couple occasions. It has taught me a lot.

Basically my whole strategy is to leech off the private properties next to me. I’ve had several seasons now where i’ll get some nice 3 yr olds cruising the grove or locking down with them as well. I’ve come to expect it every year. Multiple times, including last year, I’ve expected a specific 3 yr old to come back again as a mature buck, but quite consistently he doesn’t.

IMO this is why:

The properties next door are the preferred bedding and they hold plenty of does. The big dogs get their pick of the litter, forcing the three year old and smaller bucks to go cruising if they want a doe. They know they can find them in Oscar’s because they’re ALWAYS there.

Well when the big boy(s) get shot next door, the 3 yr olds run the show the following season when they’re mature. So now they’re the ones who don’t have to cruise, and new three year olds show up in my grove.

I have had a couple mature bucks frequent it (especially one in particular), but it’s not the norm. I attribute that to the hot does leading them there... they just don’t cruise in randomly IMO. We all know how stupid a rutting buck is on a hot doe trail. I’m confident that Oscar’s not having a water source plays a big part in this. There is water on both sides, but they have to enter the other properties to get it. So when one of “my” does comes in to heat, Mr Big finds her when she’s getting a drink and follows her back to bed IF he’s not already with a doe.

On a side note, one of the most common times to catch a mature buck (that I have yet to see that season) in there is late November... when they’re trying to find that last estrous doe.

Oscar’s situation is the most notable thing I’ve seen personally regarding hierarchy. I’m sure any boss buck holding down the best bedding on a desirable property will get replaced by the 2nd toughest buck. How soon that happens orwhere he comes from depends on a lot of different variables IMHO.