Just curious...

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Stanley
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:54 pm

DaveT1963 wrote:I always chuckle that it usually winds up as what a buck has on his head. The truth as I see it is that any mature whitetail (5+ years old) is a dang trophy no matter what he has growing on his head. Do it on public land and that's an elite trophy in most states. Big racks only indicate that he had a better diet and better gene pool - may or may not have anything to do with how difficult he was to kill.

The thing about what a buck has on his head is what drives most big buck hunters. If it were just about a mature deer, does would be hanging on guys walls. A bigger rack, represents more knife handles or more tools that can be made from the rack. We can sugar coat it all we want. The majority of big buck hunters are after antler not age. Not saying this is how it should be. Just saying this is how it is. :think:


You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:02 am

Stanley wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:I always chuckle that it usually winds up as what a buck has on his head. The truth as I see it is that any mature whitetail (5+ years old) is a dang trophy no matter what he has growing on his head. Do it on public land and that's an elite trophy in most states. Big racks only indicate that he had a better diet and better gene pool - may or may not have anything to do with how difficult he was to kill.

The thing about what a buck has on his head is what drives most big buck hunters. If it were just about a mature deer, does would be hanging on guys walls. A bigger rack, represents more knife handles or more tools that can be made from the rack. We can sugar coat it all we want. The majority of big buck hunters are after antler not age. Not saying this is how it should be. Just saying this is how it is. :think:


You guys cannot forget about weight :lol: Weight is the defining characteristic with a big buck here.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:07 am

mainebowhunter wrote:
Stanley wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:I always chuckle that it usually winds up as what a buck has on his head. The truth as I see it is that any mature whitetail (5+ years old) is a dang trophy no matter what he has growing on his head. Do it on public land and that's an elite trophy in most states. Big racks only indicate that he had a better diet and better gene pool - may or may not have anything to do with how difficult he was to kill.

The thing about what a buck has on his head is what drives most big buck hunters. If it were just about a mature deer, does would be hanging on guys walls. A bigger rack, represents more knife handles or more tools that can be made from the rack. We can sugar coat it all we want. The majority of big buck hunters are after antler not age. Not saying this is how it should be. Just saying this is how it is. :think:


You guys cannot forget about weight :lol: Weight is the defining characteristic with a big buck here.


Totally agree - but a corn and bean fed buck form the Midwest can grow on its head in 3.5 years what many bucks in the south will never have. And to be frank about it,findingand killing them is not nearly as hard as it might be to take a deep woods buck, a southern swamp buck or MI/PA public land deer....... In Ohio I have watched some P&Y bucks do some really stupid stuff that you just wont see many older aged deer in really high pressure areas do.... and the odds on a shooter (based upon head gear) walking by your stand is exponentially higher then in most other areas.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby headgear » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:55 am

DaveT1963 wrote:Totally agree - but a corn and bean fed buck form the Midwest can grow on its head in 3.5 years what many bucks in the south will never have. And to be frank about it,findingand killing them is not nearly as hard as it might be to take a deep woods buck, a southern swamp buck or MI/PA public land deer....... In Ohio I have watched some P&Y bucks do some really stupid stuff that you just wont see many older aged deer in really high pressure areas do.... and the odds on a shooter (based upon head gear) walking by your stand is exponentially higher then in most other areas.


It's not really a level playing field that is for sure. Hard to kill anywhere, but harder in many locations.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:50 am

headgear wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:Totally agree - but a corn and bean fed buck form the Midwest can grow on its head in 3.5 years what many bucks in the south will never have. And to be frank about it,findingand killing them is not nearly as hard as it might be to take a deep woods buck, a southern swamp buck or MI/PA public land deer....... In Ohio I have watched some P&Y bucks do some really stupid stuff that you just wont see many older aged deer in really high pressure areas do.... and the odds on a shooter (based upon head gear) walking by your stand is exponentially higher then in most other areas.


It's not really a level playing field that is for sure. Hard to kill anywhere, but harder in many locations.


Which is the whole reason I started this post. Was curious to see if there was the same divide in neighboring states as there is in different regions. Like I said before, the big "divide" in the midwest I see is whether you hunt public or private, not quite so region based.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby stash59 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:05 am

mainebowhunter wrote:
headgear wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:Totally agree - but a corn and bean fed buck form the Midwest can grow on its head in 3.5 years what many bucks in the south will never have. And to be frank about it,findingand killing them is not nearly as hard as it might be to take a deep woods buck, a southern swamp buck or MI/PA public land deer....... In Ohio I have watched some P&Y bucks do some really stupid stuff that you just wont see many older aged deer in really high pressure areas do.... and the odds on a shooter (based upon head gear) walking by your stand is exponentially higher then in most other areas.


It's not really a level playing field that is for sure. Hard to kill anywhere, but harder in many locations.


Which is the whole reason I started this post. Was curious to see if there was the same divide in neighboring states as there is in different regions. Like I said before, the big "divide" in the midwest I see is whether you hunt public or private, not quite so region based.


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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby perchsoup » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:06 am

Most of the hunters I know hunt the same way. I don’t look down on them for going to bigger buck counties or states, but I don’t admire it either when they’re successful. They’re all playing the luck card more than success from their work and preparation. I really admire the guys that get it done where I live and not over bait. I have a chip on my shoulder because of it and maybe that’s some of the reason I don’t travel far to hunt. But that’s only my competitive side and there’s a lot more to hunting for me than that.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby Buckshot20 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:05 am

perchsoup wrote:Most of the hunters I know hunt the same way. I don’t look down on them for going to bigger buck counties or states, but I don’t admire it either when they’re successful. They’re all playing the luck card more than success from their work and preparation. I really admire the guys that get it done where I live and not over bait. I have a chip on my shoulder because of it and maybe that’s some of the reason I don’t travel far to hunt. But that’s only my competitive side and there’s a lot more to hunting for me than that.



Is it only luck when a guy goes to a different state, hunts public land, reads and interperates,the sign that is there and shoots a big buck? Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of luck that happens out there, but some credit has to be given for interpreting sign, making the adjustments, and getting it done regularly.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby headgear » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:43 am

mainebowhunter wrote:Which is the whole reason I started this post. Was curious to see if there was the same divide in neighboring states as there is in different regions. Like I said before, the big "divide" in the midwest I see is whether you hunt public or private, not quite so region based.


I think the divides are even smaller than that, each state has its own hot spots and even on a county level there are some great locations and some spots that get pounded. Like you mentioned there is a private vs public but also private vs private and public vs public within these areas. We probably don't do ourselves any favors by trying to label an entire state or area as easier or harder to kill even though those locations exist. Some of the better spots its just a numbers game, if you have 5 mature bucks in a square mile in one location and one mature buck per 2-3 sqaure miles in another no doubt the hunters in spot A have much better odds than spot B. It should be noted that those odds might apply more to your average joe than someone who really knows what they are doing but I was just talking in general.

Overall I try not to focus on this stuff because it doesn't do me one bit of good to think this hunter has it easy and this guy has it harder because you don't really know what kind of ground they hunt unless you know them or the area really well. What I really love about the beast is we try to make the best of the locations we hunt, with this kind of scouting and hunting you can shoot a nice one anywhere. It levels the playing field a bit, no doubt some locations are easier but guys who want it more can go out and have a realistic chance at a nice buck on hard hunted ground anywhere.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:50 am

headgear wrote:
mainebowhunter wrote:Which is the whole reason I started this post. Was curious to see if there was the same divide in neighboring states as there is in different regions. Like I said before, the big "divide" in the midwest I see is whether you hunt public or private, not quite so region based.


I think the divides are even smaller than that, each state has its own hot spots and even on a county level there are some great locations and some spots that get pounded. Like you mentioned there is a private vs public but also private vs private and public vs public within these areas. We probably don't do ourselves any favors by trying to label an entire state or area as easier or harder to kill even though those locations exist. Some of the better spots its just a numbers game, if you have 5 mature bucks in a square mile in one location and one mature buck per 2-3 sqaure miles in another no doubt the hunters in spot A have much better odds than spot B. It should be noted that those odds might apply more to your average joe than someone who really knows what they are doing but I was just talking in general.

Overall I try not to focus on this stuff because it doesn't do me one bit of good to think this hunter has it easy and this guy has it harder because you don't really know what kind of ground they hunt unless you know them or the area really well. What I really love about the beast is we try to make the best of the locations we hunt, with this kind of scouting and hunting you can shoot a nice one anywhere. It levels the playing field a bit, no doubt some locations are easier but guys who want it more can go out and have a realistic chance at a nice buck on hard hunted ground anywhere.

Great post. I try and focus on what I do and not what others think I should do. :think: I have a lot of guys tell me how I should spend my money. I have zero guys helping me earn that money. :think:
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby Jonny » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:58 am

Stanley wrote:
headgear wrote:
mainebowhunter wrote:Which is the whole reason I started this post. Was curious to see if there was the same divide in neighboring states as there is in different regions. Like I said before, the big "divide" in the midwest I see is whether you hunt public or private, not quite so region based.


I think the divides are even smaller than that, each state has its own hot spots and even on a county level there are some great locations and some spots that get pounded. Like you mentioned there is a private vs public but also private vs private and public vs public within these areas. We probably don't do ourselves any favors by trying to label an entire state or area as easier or harder to kill even though those locations exist. Some of the better spots its just a numbers game, if you have 5 mature bucks in a square mile in one location and one mature buck per 2-3 sqaure miles in another no doubt the hunters in spot A have much better odds than spot B. It should be noted that those odds might apply more to your average joe than someone who really knows what they are doing but I was just talking in general.

Overall I try not to focus on this stuff because it doesn't do me one bit of good to think this hunter has it easy and this guy has it harder because you don't really know what kind of ground they hunt unless you know them or the area really well. What I really love about the beast is we try to make the best of the locations we hunt, with this kind of scouting and hunting you can shoot a nice one anywhere. It levels the playing field a bit, no doubt some locations are easier but guys who want it more can go out and have a realistic chance at a nice buck on hard hunted ground anywhere.

Great post. I try and focus on what I do and not what others think I should do. :think:I have a lot of guys tell me how I should spend my money. I have zero guys helping me earn that money. :think:


:clap: nailed it right there

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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby HELENVILLEHUNTER » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:06 am

This is quickly turning into one of the greatest topics of all time.

Maine, to answer your question, I have seen exactly what you are talking about. I live near Dan in SE Wisconsin but have also done some hunting in NE Iowa. I have had guys ask me where I shot a certain buck and when I tell them Iowa, they go right on to the next story. They act like it isnt even worth talking about. Why is that? My guess would be the TV shows. Also, have those people ever hunted Iowa, nope!

When I am talking to someone who shot a big buck I just want to hear their story and see their excitement from the hunt. I dont ask questions and let them tell their story. It doesnt matter to me if its Iowa or Wisconsin, public or private, shotgun or rifle, bow or crossbow or if its early season or the rut. If they want to tell me its up to them, enjoy how and where you choose to legally hunt boys.
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Re: Just curious...

Unread postby perchsoup » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:06 pm

Buckshot20 wrote:
perchsoup wrote:Most of the hunters I know hunt the same way. I don’t look down on them for going to bigger buck counties or states, but I don’t admire it either when they’re successful. They’re all playing the luck card more than success from their work and preparation. I really admire the guys that get it done where I live and not over bait. I have a chip on my shoulder because of it and maybe that’s some of the reason I don’t travel far to hunt. But that’s only my competitive side and there’s a lot more to hunting for me than that.



Is it only luck when a guy goes to a different state, hunts public land, reads and interperates,the sign that is there and shoots a big buck? Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of luck that happens out there, but some credit has to be given for interpreting sign, making the adjustments, and getting it done regularly.


No. It’s not luck in the way you describe it. You and I are not talking about the same kind of hunters.

I’m saying a guy that can’t get it done on his home ground in reasonable circumstances shouldn’t be looked at as a great hunter if he travels somewhere and uses the same tactics he uses at home. Crappy tactics in good land will put you on a few more bucks because of density than crappy tactics in less desireable hunting grounds.


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