Fall ranges. Are you ready for the switch?

[JoeRE]

Trying a different strategy this year. In years past I had cams in my 3-4 primary hunting areas. I seldom got any patterns on good bucks. Even though I only checked monthly and under good conditions, it left me wondering if I wasn't impacting their movements. I pretty well know the bedding and travel routes that bucks take in my areas so I have not run any cams this year and I am simply going to do observation sits in each area until I see one of the bucks I'm after.

I have concluded that it is putting unnecessary pressure on them to do anything different in season.

I will be interested to see your results.

I thought the same thing to...until I started running cell cams and watched the deer come and watched the deer go without me being there. The patterns were no different than the year before.

Maine I have been thinking more about that. I don't doubt your results. I would expect a fall switch to happen regardless of humans around. Food sources and rising testosterone levels will always cause behavior changes. But I think the switch might be different with people. Telemetry studies make it clear that deer avoid stand sites and such when hunters are around. I don't know of any study that was done watching deer movement around camera locations but it sure would be interesting to read about.

I guess my angle would be, since we know there will be a switch regardless I wouldn't jump to conclusions about one factor (human intrusion) having little to no affect. There are too many independent variables to say what is causing what. Just some thoughts, take them for what they are...

If I remember right you were checking cameras every 2 weeks before, now its zero with the cell cams. So what you were doing before was very little compared to a guy checking cams every 3 days or even once a week.

[mheichelbech]

Trying a different strategy this year. In years past I had cams in my 3-4 primary hunting areas. I seldom got any patterns on good bucks. Even though I only checked monthly and under good conditions, it left me wondering if I wasn't impacting their movements. I pretty well know the bedding and travel routes that bucks take in my areas so I have not run any cams this year and I am simply going to do observation sits in each area until I see one of the bucks I'm after.

I have concluded that it is putting unnecessary pressure on them to do anything different in season.

I will be interested to see your results.

I thought the same thing to...until I started running cell cams and watched the deer come and watched the deer go without me being there. The patterns were no different than the year before.

Maine I have been thinking more about that. I don't doubt your results. I would expect a fall switch to happen regardless of humans around. Food sources and rising testosterone levels will always cause behavior changes. But I think the switch might be different with people. Telemetry studies make it clear that deer avoid stand sites and such when hunters are around. I don't know of any study that was done watching deer movement around camera locations but it sure would be interesting to read about.

I guess my angle would be, since we know there will be a switch regardless I wouldn't jump to conclusions about one factor (human intrusion) having little to no affect. There are too many independent variables to say what is causing what. Just some thoughts, take them for what they are...

If I remember right you were checking cameras every 2 weeks before, now its zero with the cell cams. So what you were doing before was very little compared to a guy checking cams every 3 days or even once a week.

I saw your post and we heartened to read that. What size are the properties you are focusing on? 2 out of the 3 are 40 acres and less. On one of them, the deer are extremely spooky and sensitive. Even the younger deer. This is a suburban property next to a neighborhood. At first I thought it wouldn't hurt me as there must be a lot of neighborhood instruction but I have come to believe the more mature bucks can be affected. Especially when I traverse areas outside what areas the neighbors would normally walk.

I will say...if I had any cell cams at all I would definitely put them in there as it is any property to place a couple cams and cover most all movement.

[mainebowhunter]

Trying a different strategy this year. In years past I had cams in my 3-4 primary hunting areas. I seldom got any patterns on good bucks. Even though I only checked monthly and under good conditions, it left me wondering if I wasn't impacting their movements. I pretty well know the bedding and travel routes that bucks take in my areas so I have not run any cams this year and I am simply going to do observation sits in each area until I see one of the bucks I'm after.

I have concluded that it is putting unnecessary pressure on them to do anything different in season.

I will be interested to see your results.

I thought the same thing to...until I started running cell cams and watched the deer come and watched the deer go without me being there. The patterns were no different than the year before.

Maine I have been thinking more about that. I don't doubt your results. I would expect a fall switch to happen regardless of humans around. Food sources and rising testosterone levels will always cause behavior changes. But I think the switch might be different with people. Telemetry studies make it clear that deer avoid stand sites and such when hunters are around. I don't know of any study that was done watching deer movement around camera locations but it sure would be interesting to read about.

I guess my angle would be, since we know there will be a switch regardless I wouldn't jump to conclusions about one factor (human intrusion) having little to no affect. There are too many independent variables to say what is causing what. Just some thoughts, take them for what they are...

If I remember right you were checking cameras every 2 weeks before, now its zero with the cell cams. So what you were doing before was very little compared to a guy checking cams every 3 days or even once a week.

I saw your post and we heartened to read that. What size are the properties you are focusing on? 2 out of the 3 are 40 acres and less. On one of them, the deer are extremely spooky and sensitive. Even the younger deer. This is a suburban property next to a neighborhood. At first I thought it wouldn't hurt me as there must be a lot of neighborhood instruction but I have come to believe the more mature bucks can be affected. Especially when I traverse areas outside what areas the neighbors would normally walk.

I will say...if I had any cell cams at all I would definitely put them in there as it is any property to place a couple cams and cover most all movement.

The urban property is 3sq miles of solid timber. So its good size. Lot of the sign is up against the houses. Majority of my hunting this season has been around the houses. The other properties are also pretty good size. Much bigger than 40acres.

As Joe said, I would not throw out the human intrusion factor. I don't. All my entrances, exits are carefully planned. I check cams on the right wind and in the pouring rain if I can. I would just be curious to see if it was JUST the human intrusion factor that make them switch. Because if it was JUST that, thats a pretty easy fix. Learning that deer are not using your property like you think they do ...thats not such an easy fix.

You would think urban would be that way. But again, blows my mind this year. I hunted a bed last night. The 6yr old or 3.5yr old were a no show. Both showed in this area 1 on the 19th one on the 22nd. I have hunted all over this place 12 different sits, seen 1 small buck. The 9th-3.5, 19th-6.5, 22nd-3.5 and 27th-3.5, each one of these times these bucks have showed when I was at another set, one night i was within 100yds. Consistently, inconsistent. Tonight, I scouted. Guess who showed in daylight and bedded that spot? You got it. The 3.5yr showed where I was hunting last night. I have put so much pressure on that spot...heck I POUNDED THAT BED scouting it because I did not know it was there. Buck is back in it 7-8 days later. Same bed I hunted for 10.5 hrs opening day. Buck or bucks are bedded 50yds from the backs of houses. Very much an overlooked spot.

You just have to figure what is going to work for the deer YOUR hunting. Try different things. Try not checking cams all season.

[mainebowhunter]

Yea the switch can't come soon enough! Getting sick of waiting. For the most part it has already happened, there is still just a lot of variability in movement. My experience is that in late September/early Oct bucks just appear and disappear pretty randomly around here. I still think human intrusion plays a role but food sources and dominance between individual bucks is a big part no doubt.

As of right now I have nothing that I feel like trying to hunt when season opens Oct 1. That's fine, its just kinda my style to sit and watch till I see something worth chasing. I have laid the ground work and know its only a matter of time. No sense ticking off the wife at the start of the season by being gone chasing wild geese.

It is absolutely true there is a learning curve for placing "long term" cams. I would not recommend it to anyone until you have confidence hanging cameras in the right spot and leaving them for long periods of time. Checking a camera after 2 months and realizing you never switched it to the "on" position or had a branch waving in front of it that filled up the camera in 3 days or the batteries died after 1 week makes you want to Don't ask me how I know.....

You also need to be confident its a great spot for a camera. I usually don't hang long term cams in any spot that's a "maybe"....I recommend trying it with 1 or 2 cameras a season or two, then do more and more long term deployments. That is what I did, just a couple cameras hung like that in 2013 & 14.

I still get by on 7-8 cameras, bought at a pace of 2 per year. I firmly believe you don't need a ton of cameras to learn a lot and I live in fear of relying on them completely and thus missing a lot of super obvious stuff just because my cameras did not show it. Its all I can handle time wise adjusting those 8 cameras every 1-2 months. I don't know how you guys do it that run 20 or more cameras, hire someone to check them?

I am one of the 20+ guys :) I am also self employed so I can "make" time. A lot has to do with lower deer densities...so I am covering a LOT of spots -- some spots cams sit for a long time. They may not get checked very often. I also tend to put a LOT of cams in one area, makes them easier to check.

With the cams, I do not hunt them. I know that if deer are showing / have showed in daylight, I hunt. I have said this before, I would much rather hunt hot sign than good trail cam pulls. Just many times, the sign just is not there.

I know when I hunt the midwest, sign means a whole lot more to me than trail camera pulls. Creek crossings, fence crossings...rub lines, scrape lines. Cruising spots...sign makes it pretty clear what is going on. Its also really in the timing. Cell cams change that up...but really is not time on my trips to be hanging a lot of cams. Just no time to check them.

[JoeRE]

I saw your post and we heartened to read that. What size are the properties you are focusing on? 2 out of the 3 are 40 acres and less. On one of them, the deer are extremely spooky and sensitive. Even the younger deer. This is a suburban property next to a neighborhood. At first I thought it wouldn't hurt me as there must be a lot of neighborhood instruction but I have come to believe the more mature bucks can be affected. Especially when I traverse areas outside what areas the neighbors would normally walk.

I will say...if I had any cell cams at all I would definitely put them in there as it is any property to place a couple cams and cover most all movement.

Yea I have never hunted suburban deer. So really can't offer advice about how that affects movement. The areas I have cameras on are all public land - some see a lot of human activity like hikers on trails, a couple see virtually none because one one else knows they are public land I don't think of what I hunt as the whole property - I am usually focused on very small areas mostly centered around good bedding. 10 acres or 20 acres here 40 acres there. I just sometimes gotta walk a mile or more to get to that 20 acres. Some is big woods, like where I have been poking around in northern WI, and some is farm country with 10% permanent cover and everything in between.

The main point I would make is that I think the oldest bucks tolerate humans in certain areas and do not tolerate them in others. That is just my observation. And it can be a very distinct line in between...like if you walk along a field edge or in open timber every deer may ignore you but go 20 yards into the thick bedding area and that's not OK. Up in the big woods they do seem to be touchier, but I have a ton to learn up there yet so am hesitant to say much about that. When I hang or check a camera in the center of bedding, activity does not look normal for several days up to a week. So that is a different observation than what Maine had but we hunt different areas, terrains, deer densities, different everything so I wouldn't pick one or the other as right. Everybody should try stuff and draw their own conclusions.

[oldrank]

I own 8 acres behind my house. I have 5 apple trees in my back yard. As soon as the apples mature to about the size of a half dollar any dropped apples are gobbled up. From about mid July I have deer in my back yard eating the falling apples everyday. It is usually a few does that raise fawn on my property. Occasionally a buck will show up. This happens every day, morning and evening. Our early doe and youth hunt was 2 weekends ago. I seen 3 does Friday night before it opened. Since then I've seen zero deer. The trees are loaded with apples still. This same scenario has happened every year I've lived here. I doubt it is pressure because I did not hunt early season. I believe it is triggered by some type of hormone change. It usually coincides with the loss of their summer coats. I know they are still eating the apples, but now at night. Something switches them into a more nocturnal mode. Years of being hunted and adapting?

During the summer I can walk to my car, stand on the deck or open n close the house doors n they give me a look n go about eating. In the fall they get way more spooky. If I hunt my stand in the woods out back n they wind me I won't see sign of a deer for weeks sometimes. Yet the kids can play in the yard n come in and 10 minutes later they will b eating apples. They r very aware of where human scent is a danger.

The other cool observation I've seen is watching them cross the rd. The mature does will stand there listening n watching for cars. Sometimes for minutes waiting for no vehicle noise. Then they slowly walk across. The fawns get killed the most in front off the house. They just follow mom. If they r lagging behind they will just run for it. The bucks also seem to be way more leary n do not like being in the open long. They will stop n listen for a second n run across.They also usually only feed on the apples for a minute or so before getting nervous. The does will feed for 20 minutes plus sometimes.

[mainebowhunter]

I saw your post and we heartened to read that. What size are the properties you are focusing on? 2 out of the 3 are 40 acres and less. On one of them, the deer are extremely spooky and sensitive. Even the younger deer. This is a suburban property next to a neighborhood. At first I thought it wouldn't hurt me as there must be a lot of neighborhood instruction but I have come to believe the more mature bucks can be affected. Especially when I traverse areas outside what areas the neighbors would normally walk.

I will say...if I had any cell cams at all I would definitely put them in there as it is any property to place a couple cams and cover most all movement.

Yea I have never hunted suburban deer. So really can't offer advice about how that affects movement. The areas I have cameras on are all public land - some see a lot of human activity like hikers on trails, a couple see virtually none because one one else knows they are public land I don't think of what I hunt as the whole property - I am usually focused on very small areas mostly centered around good bedding. 10 acres or 20 acres here 40 acres there. I just sometimes gotta walk a mile or more to get to that 20 acres. Some is big woods, like where I have been poking around in northern WI, and some is farm country with 10% permanent cover and everything in between.

The main point I would make is that I think the oldest bucks tolerate humans in certain areas and do not tolerate them in others. That is just my observation. And it can be a very distinct line in between...like if you walk along a field edge or in open timber every deer may ignore you but go 20 yards into the thick bedding area and that's not OK. Up in the big woods they do seem to be touchier, but I have a ton to learn up there yet so am hesitant to say much about that. When I hang or check a camera in the center of bedding, activity does not look normal for several days up to a week. So that is a different observation than what Maine had but we hunt different areas, terrains, deer densities, different everything so I wouldn't pick one or the other as right. Everybody should try stuff and draw their own conclusions.

That is 99% of the reason why the human intrusion stuff intrigues me and what really pushed me into getting the cell cams. Because what if you do everything else RIGHT but get the human intrusion thing wrong...it really messes with everything else. IF checking trail cams every 2-3 weeks changes the patterns of these older bucks...causing them to switch up their patterns, than something needs to change. I really don't like to put regular cams in the center of bedding areas unless I plan on leaving them. I do not go into bedding areas with cams at all. Ground scrapes outside of bedding, yes.

There are a lot of great hunters on this board. Lot of guys I respect. To sit and say "that don't apply to me" is kind of foolish without a least giving it a shot.

[mainebowhunter]

I own 8 acres behind my house. I have 5 apple trees in my back yard. As soon as the apples mature to about the size of a half dollar any dropped apples are gobbled up. From about mid July I have deer in my back yard eating the falling apples everyday. It is usually a few does that raise fawn on my property. Occasionally a buck will show up. This happens every day, morning and evening. Our early doe and youth hunt was 2 weekends ago. I seen 3 does Friday night before it opened. Since then I've seen zero deer. The trees are loaded with apples still. This same scenario has happened every year I've lived here. I doubt it is pressure because I did not hunt early season. I believe it is triggered by some type of hormone change. It usually coincides with the loss of their summer coats. I know they are still eating the apples, but now at night. Something switches them into a more nocturnal mode. Years of being hunted and adapting?

During the summer I can walk to my car, stand on the deck or open n close the house doors n they give me a look n go about eating. In the fall they get way more spooky. If I hunt my stand in the woods out back n they wind me I won't see sign of a deer for weeks sometimes. Yet the kids can play in the yard n come in and 10 minutes later they will b eating apples. They r very aware of where human scent is a danger.

The other cool observation I've seen is watching them cross the rd. The mature does will stand there listening n watching for cars. Sometimes for minutes waiting for no vehicle noise. Then they slowly walk across. The fawns get killed the most in front off the house. They just follow mom. If they r lagging behind they will just run for it. The bucks also seem to be way more leary n do not like being in the open long. They will stop n listen for a second n run across.They also usually only feed on the apples for a minute or so before getting nervous. The does will feed for 20 minutes plus sometimes.

Interesting stuff!! Its why my urban stuff is so crazy...I have been putting a ton of pressure on these deer. Yet they are still showing in daylight...no often. But they never really show often with hard antlers. Kind of the nature of the beast.

[mheichelbech]

I own 8 acres behind my house. I have 5 apple trees in my back yard. As soon as the apples mature to about the size of a half dollar any dropped apples are gobbled up. From about mid July I have deer in my back yard eating the falling apples everyday. It is usually a few does that raise fawn on my property. Occasionally a buck will show up. This happens every day, morning and evening. Our early doe and youth hunt was 2 weekends ago. I seen 3 does Friday night before it opened. Since then I've seen zero deer. The trees are loaded with apples still. This same scenario has happened every year I've lived here. I doubt it is pressure because I did not hunt early season. I believe it is triggered by some type of hormone change. It usually coincides with the loss of their summer coats. I know they are still eating the apples, but now at night. Something switches them into a more nocturnal mode. Years of being hunted and adapting?

During the summer I can walk to my car, stand on the deck or open n close the house doors n they give me a look n go about eating. In the fall they get way more spooky. If I hunt my stand in the woods out back n they wind me I won't see sign of a deer for weeks sometimes. Yet the kids can play in the yard n come in and 10 minutes later they will b eating apples. They r very aware of where human scent is a danger.

The other cool observation I've seen is watching them cross the rd. The mature does will stand there listening n watching for cars. Sometimes for minutes waiting for no vehicle noise. Then they slowly walk across. The fawns get killed the most in front off the house. They just follow mom. If they r lagging behind they will just run for it. The bucks also seem to be way more leary n do not like being in the open long. They will stop n listen for a second n run across.They also usually only feed on the apples for a minute or so before getting nervous. The does will feed for 20 minutes plus sometimes.

Interesting stuff!! Its why my urban stuff is so crazy...I have been putting a ton of pressure on these deer. Yet they are still showing in daylight...no often. But they never really show often with hard antlers. Kind of the nature of the beast.

Maybe I missed it Maine but what size properties are you hiring and how are laid out urban wise?

I will report back over the next few weeks in whether or not it made any difference staying out of the woods.

[mheichelbech]

One other interesting point related to Oldrank's post. I live on 5 acres with 45 acres of generally unpressured land right behind me. I feed these deer in my back yard (don't hunt them). I rarely see bucks and never in daylight feeding but I also can say there seems to be no impact on the does for early hunting season (a lot of surrounding pressure), if they have winded me, etc., until the woods get really bare of cover. This also coincides with gun season so I'm not sure if it the additional pressure of gun season, change in cover or both but they definitely react to that.

[jpsmith270]

Very interesting post. This is one of the many things that I am actually in the process of learning (and will be for a long time). The when, where, why and how of placing cameras is very interesting to me and just a fraction of the entire process. I have learned to just enjoy the process. To me it is just as much as part of the hunt as the hunt itself. It brings a sense of accomplishment to place that camera in that perfectly planed spot on the long soaks.

Using the cameras to compliment the many hours of scouting and using the intel to help put the pieces of the puzzle together is what hunting is all about in my opinion.

Thanks to all of you for your feedback and willingness to share your experience with the less experienced as myself.

[mainebowhunter]

I own 8 acres behind my house. I have 5 apple trees in my back yard. As soon as the apples mature to about the size of a half dollar any dropped apples are gobbled up. From about mid July I have deer in my back yard eating the falling apples everyday. It is usually a few does that raise fawn on my property. Occasionally a buck will show up. This happens every day, morning and evening. Our early doe and youth hunt was 2 weekends ago. I seen 3 does Friday night before it opened. Since then I've seen zero deer. The trees are loaded with apples still. This same scenario has happened every year I've lived here. I doubt it is pressure because I did not hunt early season. I believe it is triggered by some type of hormone change. It usually coincides with the loss of their summer coats. I know they are still eating the apples, but now at night. Something switches them into a more nocturnal mode. Years of being hunted and adapting?

During the summer I can walk to my car, stand on the deck or open n close the house doors n they give me a look n go about eating. In the fall they get way more spooky. If I hunt my stand in the woods out back n they wind me I won't see sign of a deer for weeks sometimes. Yet the kids can play in the yard n come in and 10 minutes later they will b eating apples. They r very aware of where human scent is a danger.

The other cool observation I've seen is watching them cross the rd. The mature does will stand there listening n watching for cars. Sometimes for minutes waiting for no vehicle noise. Then they slowly walk across. The fawns get killed the most in front off the house. They just follow mom. If they r lagging behind they will just run for it. The bucks also seem to be way more leary n do not like being in the open long. They will stop n listen for a second n run across.They also usually only feed on the apples for a minute or so before getting nervous. The does will feed for 20 minutes plus sometimes.

Interesting stuff!! Its why my urban stuff is so crazy...I have been putting a ton of pressure on these deer. Yet they are still showing in daylight...no often. But they never really show often with hard antlers. Kind of the nature of the beast.

Maybe I missed it Maine but what size properties are you hiring and how are laid out urban wise?

I will report back over the next few weeks in whether or not it made any difference staying out of the woods.

I guess my "urban" property is probably not all that urban. The section I am hunting is 3sq miles of timber that has a housing development that juts into like a .75 thermometer. Its just what we call it. Compared to say CT suburbia, its not close to that at all. The other properties vary in size. But we are mostly timber with houses and roads.

Again, I am not reporting that human instrusion does not matter. More or less just sharing my observations.

[Ccwalker]

Very interesting stuff. This time of year always stumps me. I'll just add how personalities play a roll. Last fall my brother purchased the adjoining 130 acres to our 30. So there was no prescouting, I just hung a bunch of cams on trails. We gained access in mid September, so cams of course weren't showing a lot, except for one wide short tined ten point. I got 3 daylight photos leading up to gun opener which is first weekend in November here in MN. He was the second deer shot opening morning to a 15 year old first time hunter. I knew he wouldn't make it through the season. The year prior on our 30 I took a decent buck that was giving multiple daytime pics throughout the season also. Like old Winke says those are the bucks you have to target. There were multiple bucks throughout I only got one pic and never saw again. There seems to be so many variables that come to play this time of year. Three weeks ago I had a bachelor group of 6 different bucks at one my minerals licks at 8:30 in the morning, now it's just does and fawns. I do realize I need to stop checking cams. Will be easier now that I've stopped trying to bait the bear that passes through.