Buck Caught on Camera

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Ognennyy
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Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby Ognennyy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:45 am

This'll be my third year of hunting, and my second season of putting out cameras. I finally learned enough about deer movement that I got some pictures of deer on camera. Only thing is, it's not really quite what I was expecting.

Image

This is the most impressive deer I caught on my cameras, and I had nine of them out across four locations throughout New York state. The really weird thing is, this picture was caught on what I would consider my best property of all the four. The property receives very little to no hunting pressure at all. I think I'm the only one who hunts it, and I hunt in there twice, maybe three times per year. And I don't go tromping around the bedding areas, or the old main logging road that runs along the edge of the beaver meadow / marsh that is littered with rubs and scrapes every 15 yards. The property is basically 250-300 acres; a small stream running through a beaver meadow, flanked by high hardwood ridges on the East and West sides. The property is bordered to the North by power lines, and to the South by several agg fields.

It is completely impossible that this is the biggest deer on the property, given all the favorable conditions and lack of pressure. Isn't it? Not to mention, I put that camera out in late March and didn't retrieve it until the beginning of August, and that's still the biggest deer I saw on the camera. And where is he going in complete daylight? Aren't bucks supposed to bedded in daylight, or at least headed toward a bed? He's headed up the crest of a ridge in this picture; it's a well-traveled corridor with multiple paths leading down the ridge to a doe bedding area 200 yards down past where all the trails converge and the ridge ends. Up top their travel routes head out of the property, across the road to agg fields. But I have another camera up there, and I didn't see him on that camera ever, let alone on the same day and time. If you go the other way at the top of the ridge that does lead into a large bedding area. But why wouldn't he be there already? That picture was snapped at 0620 two weeks from the solstice, which means it had already been fully light for over an hour.

I was happy when I retrieved the card, because there were a lot of pictures. I started hunting for naturally sourced food, and that camera has revealed a location I can get into and out of without being detected. So I basically get a "fill your freezer free" card here. But still it begs the question... why no big deer?

Is it possible that only does and young bucks use this travel route? Or should I consider the possibility that despite the ideal circumstances there are no big deer on that property?


tbunao
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby tbunao » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:47 am

Just a quick question, is that a cloak or a terra game cam?
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Ognennyy
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby Ognennyy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:55 am

tbunao wrote:Just a quick question, is that a cloak or a terra game cam?


Aw man I'm sorry, I don't remember. When I bought the cameras I just went on ebay and started bidding on anything that was $35 or less. Then when I went to hang them I just reached in the drawer and grabbed whatever I got my hands on. If I can remember I'll check when I go out there to hunt the location, which will probably be next weekend, 9/30.

Whatever it is, it's not the best quality. There are several pictures that are so grainy in low light, or very blurry due to slow shutter speed, that they're almost indiscernible. Like some pictures I look at and wonder if it's a doe or a button buck. And check out this one taken by the same camera...

Image

If you look very closely on the right tine (his left tine, but to our right as the viewers) it looks like he's a 6 pointer or 8 pointer. Except you can't see the same on the other side. I just can't make heads or tails.

Sorry for the rant but my point is, whatever this model is I don't recommend it. Ha... ok now since I've gone on a rant about the quality of an unknown product I'll have to remember to see what model it is when I go out there again.
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby gjs4 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:13 pm

Hey man. Where are you in NY?

Few things though speaking in generalities. Cams can pose pressure. Ferns and deep woods like that aren't defined travel or destinations or typical bedding. Getting velvet bucks in travel is like a pair in a poker hand....not much to work on. Think of it this way- where do they bed, feed and or drink. This is all changes with weather, leaves, dropping soft mast, hard mast, crops being rime, crops being plucked, human pressure, environmental changes and the 4 phases of the rut.....all under the paradigm of a deers unquie personality and preferences. Lots of line up. Right now- hang your cams on falling mast, alfalfa and near scrapes. When our weather drops 20deg next week those scrapes will blow up. Just a place to start.
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Ognennyy
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby Ognennyy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:29 pm

gjs4 wrote:Hey man. Where are you in NY?


Hey gjs4. I'm from central New York, Oneida county, but I live just South of Saratoga Springs now. The buck in the first picture, believe it or not, actually is on a very well-used game trail. The second one I think the buck is off the beaten path 15-20 yards or so.

Thanks for the advice on the scrapes. I would love to move cameras to the scrapes, but I'm a little hesitant to get right in there to the heart of the property and drop my scent everywhere a week before the bow season opener. What I definitely will do though if I tag out, or after the season, is get in there and put a few cameras right on the logging trail I spoke of above.

In the meantime you got me thinking... if November 10-12th or so rolls around and I haven't shot a deer yet, maybe it's time for a hail Mary. I can post up in a tree with a rifle on the opposite side of the beaver meadow from that logging trail. Thanks for the tip.

I still can't help but wonder what kinda bucks I'll see on that trail come November!
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby gjs4 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:43 pm

Nice- I travel to Saratoga for work every now and then; will be staying at the Gideon next week as a matter of fact. If it wasn't booked solid I'd say we should meet up.

Onondaga seems to produce a few good ones.

My advice to you that you hadn't asked for Is have less faith in trails. Bucks will use their own giant ones and really start new "efficient ones" that cross doe trails toward the end of Oct. I'd also throw out- I'd rather hunt a pressured buck I know than one that may no it exist. Wait for a windy or downpour day and move your cams. Cams with easy accsss beat those in deep. If you're just learning it all and take it in the long term goals become reality quicker from a managed aggresive approach than a light footed conservative one. You'll never kill what isn't there.
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby daveynewman » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:23 pm

gjs4 wrote:Nice- I travel to Saratoga for work every now and then; will be staying at the Gideon next week as a matter of fact. If it wasn't booked solid I'd say we should meet up.

Onondaga seems to produce a few good ones.

My advice to you that you hadn't asked for Is have less faith in trails. Bucks will use their own giant ones and really start new "efficient ones" that cross doe trails toward the end of Oct. I'd also throw out- I'd rather hunt a pressured buck I know than one that may no it exist. Wait for a windy or downpour day and move your cams. Cams with easy accsss beat those in deep. If you're just learning it all and take it in the long term goals become reality quicker from a managed aggresive approach than a light footed conservative one. You'll never kill what isn't there.




I agree 100 percent
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby jman22 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:25 pm

Solid advice from those who have chimed in. Completely agree with gjs4 about having less faith in the big trails. You just won't get the buck pics you are looking for on those trails. You mentioned that the scrapes you found were deep in the woods, but I'd look for scrapes to open up on the field edges and the edge of the powerlines. I'd put a cam on one of these "edge" scrapes if you can. Generally, these will generate a lot of nighttime pics, but you can get a good inventory of the bucks that are using the area.

Another good tip I learned from the beast is about "deep" camera placement. If you are just starting to learn this property, don't be afraid to sink a few cameras deeper in the woods near bedding or perennial scrapes near bedding. If you dig in for a hunt near the bedding this fall, bring a camera along and set one up. You can just leave these cameras up all season and check them post season to try and get a feel for how the deer are using these areas. Unfortunately you may not get a full season of pics with those cams, as the battery life is not the best, but you get my point.

I think the most important thing to do (especially if this property is new to you), is to hunt it. That simple. You will learn much more info from actual stand time. As others mentioned, don't be hesitant to leave areas alone, bc you feel they are too close to bedding. You are going to get busted sooner or later, but you will learn a lot more about the tendencies of the deer you are after by hunting near these bedding areas, as compared to hunting field edges and funnels.

Once the season gets going, you'll get an idea of what type of bucks are using the area. Pay attention to tracks, rubs etc.. Your in-season and post season scouting will help you learn even more about this property! Best of luck this season from a fellow Oneida County guy.
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby JoeRE » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:36 pm

Yea in order of likelyhood for reasons you didn't get any more bucks I would say:

1) camera placement - older bucks use many different travel routes as others have mentioned.
2) quality of cameras - I bet those cheap WGI cams missed at least half of what walked in front of them. So the few bucks that came through were missed. The two that I have owned consistently missed at least that much compared to most cameras in the $100-120 range. Its not just worse photo quality. Its fitting that the owner of WGI is a convicted poacher....Just from the one camera photo you posted camera placement seems to be low, that limits detection as well. Get them up higher to extend detection range. Older bucks like to parallel heavy trails sometimes close enough a well positioned camera can still catch them....
3) Least likely would be there are no older bucks despite low pressure areas like you describe. But I bet a combination of 1 and 2

regardless sounds like you have some good sounding spots for hunting. I would ignore what you didn't get on camera and scout and hunt sign. Good luck!
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby E72 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:16 am

[quote="JoeRE"]Yea in order of likelyhood for reasons you didn't get any more bucks I would say:

1) camera placement - older bucks use many different travel routes as others have mentioned.
2) quality of cameras - I bet those cheap WGI cams missed at least half of what walked in front of them. So the few bucks that came through were missed. The two that I have owned consistently missed at least that much compared to most cameras in the $100-120 range. Its not just worse photo quality. Its fitting that the owner of WGI is a convicted poacher....Just from the one camera photo you posted camera placement seems to be low, that limits detection as well. Get them up higher to extend detection range. Older bucks like to parallel heavy trails sometimes close enough a well positioned camera can still catch them....
3) Least likely would be there are no older bucks despite low pressure areas like you describe. But I bet a combination of 1 and 2

regardless sounds like you have some good sounding spots for hunting. I would ignore what you didn't get on camera and scout and hunt sign. Good luck![/quote

Joe , Don't want to hi jack this into a trail cam thread but what TCs have you had the best luck with?
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby JoeRE » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:35 am

E72 wrote:
JoeRE wrote:Yea in order of likelyhood for reasons you didn't get any more bucks I would say:

1) camera placement - older bucks use many different travel routes as others have mentioned.
2) quality of cameras - I bet those cheap WGI cams missed at least half of what walked in front of them. So the few bucks that came through were missed. The two that I have owned consistently missed at least that much compared to most cameras in the $100-120 range. Its not just worse photo quality. Its fitting that the owner of WGI is a convicted poacher....Just from the one camera photo you posted camera placement seems to be low, that limits detection as well. Get them up higher to extend detection range. Older bucks like to parallel heavy trails sometimes close enough a well positioned camera can still catch them....
3) Least likely would be there are no older bucks despite low pressure areas like you describe. But I bet a combination of 1 and 2

regardless sounds like you have some good sounding spots for hunting. I would ignore what you didn't get on camera and scout and hunt sign. Good luck![/quote

Joe , Don't want to hi jack this into a trail cam thread but what TCs have you had the best luck with?


Well to me its more about price point, for a good reliable camera that will function unattended for weeks on end you gotta look at $100 or higher MSRP. If you shop at the right times post season on amazon and/or ebay you can get those cameras for less than that.

I know we are all on a budget - well most of us, if you own 20 cameras you can stop listening now :lol: I let myself buy 2 cameras a year in the $100 range and expect them to last at least 3-4 seasons so that adds up after a few years. If I was using $30 cameras I would probably hang two of them side by side with the hope that between the two they would get most stuff. I would be shocked if they lasted 2 full seasons though. Every single super cheap camera I have tried was basically a disaster and I am thrifty so if I could make them work, I would! :lol:

Price point aside two brands I have had very poor luck with are WGI and stealthcam. The ones I have have had consistently better luck with are bushnell, browning, moultrie. Just some some general info I don't like to pimp brands.
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:14 am

I will add a few more. Caveat. I would rather hunt fresh, hot sign any day than good trail cam photos. Piles of scat, rubs and ground scrapes in the right locations, I get very excited.

Proper placement and quantity of cameras is a must when your hunting in the northeast. I am one of "those guys" with a pile of cameras :D . Not all properties hold good bucks. I have spots that I have abandoned. They look awesome. Very little pressure...but no bucks. I scout 1000s and 1000s of acres over the years looking for those select spots where I can find the bucks I am looking for. But in that same pieces where I am chasing good bucks, some cams have hardly had a deer on them this season. I will leave them throughout the whole season and after a couple seasons of doing this, I know WHEN and IF this area is good. I also run VERY few cameras on trails. They are either on ground scrapes or on food.

Doe groups. Early season, if I get a pile of does on camera, I move. Big bucks typically do not spend a lot of time around mature bucks during this time of year. My spots now where big bucks are showing daylight have very few does. It also means, a lot of empty sits because there are just fewer deer. 2 trail cams right now...for the last 3 weeks, 98% of the deer on them are good bucks. Very very limited does.

Timing is key. Certain areas are really great during certain parts of the season. Scouting off season, you find ground scrapes, rubs -- it looks pounded. Come back and put cams up next season...ghost town for big bucks. All you see are does and lambs. Tells you does live here...sign is November.

Cameras and how to use them for your areas -- there is always a learning curve. You don't want to get stuck hunting behind them. But sometimes, if you have no previous intel and very little sign, you may have to hunt them the cameras more than you want to because you have nothing else.
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby Whitetailaddict » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:02 am

I'll add that my brothers run a lot of cams in northern Wi and usually get nice bucks for the area but not all season long. These areas range from moderate pressure public areas to lightly hunted private. One place this year he had managed to get 6 bucks over 130 which is more than all the others combined. Some spots just don't hold as many good bucks consistently. Your cams and hunting will tell you this eventually but don't assume one has to be there because you think it looks good. Some properties can fool you. Now you might have them show up in November and those bucks might just be passing through. Many people say one of the hardest parts of killing big bucks is finding them which i believe. Don't give up on the area but keep searching until you find what makes you happy. Keep scouting and moving and don't just sit spots hoping a nice one shows up. You need previous history, trail cam pics, visuals or fresh sign to tell you where to hunt. Good luck on your journey.
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby Ognennyy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:27 am

Jesus so much great advice in here, branching out several different topics around trail camera selection, placement, and hunting strategy. I think I found the answer to my original question in a consensus that I'm using bad cameras, I placed the camera too low, and mature bucks generally speaking don't use the same trails as does and little guys. That all makes sense. I think I'm definitely going to keep my eyes open for some deals on the upper end cameras. For this property specifically I have no problem investing a few bills into cameras since there is almost no chance of them being stolen. As I push in closer for hunts to bedding areas, and the beaches and other hardwoods that are actively dropping mast I'll move my cameras up to those locations.

I'll add that I do have a trail camera about 1/3 a mile deeper into that property on what I believe to be the first community scrape I ever found while retrieving the card that those buck pics are from (one of the cameras is further up the ridge, between a known bedding area and a suspected buck bed). It's right near where I plan to post up for a rifle hunt later in the season, so I'll swap the card and batteries at that time.

Thanks for all the advice on hunting mature bucks. Truth be told, I'm very novice to hunting. Just last season I killed my first deer ever, with a shotgun. I don't care if I shoot a 40 pound fawn with a placenta still dragging behind it, my goal for this season is to get my first bow kill. Having said that my archery season opener will be a morning hunt (season opens on a Wednesday) on a known mature buck bed 150 yards from my office's front door lol. Then over the weekend I'll make the 120 mile drive to the property that my posted cam pics are from. I know another mature buck bed up on the opposite ridge there, where I bumped one last season and waited too long to go back and hunt it. On the bright side though, I extensively scouted it (like an idiot, dropping my scent everywhere) right after I bumped him. So I know exactly where to set up for that hunt.

Thanks again all. Good luck. It's deer season baby!!
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Re: Buck Caught on Camera

Unread postby hunter10 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:21 pm

Just remember that camera is only taking a very small fraction of a view of the entire place. Cams are great but have led me to frustration and doubt in the past. He's likely not the biggest you have there but giant cow paths through the woods or very well marked trails don't have big bucks on them every day. When scrapes start showing up put the cam there and you'll see what's around


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