Spike buck question?

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Boogieman1
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Spike buck question?

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:24 pm

I ran into the game warden this morn on my way home from work at the donut shop. I asked him a question that has been nagging me for years and he didn't have a answer so I know a lot of u guys are pretty knowledgeable with this type stuff, so was hoping someone could shine some light on it for me. In the county I hunt u are allowed 2 bucks, 1 with a spread of 13 inch or better and 1 spike. I have never seen a spike over 1.5 and even a lot of 1.5 year old meet the antler minimum. Why would u make the laws to intentionally target the younger age class? I visited a deer farm last summer in hopes to buy some giant sheds to make a chandelier, while I was there I asked if he ever has spike off spring. He said yes, it's usually due to late births or some time of sickness. It has no reflection of how the deer will look if u let him reach his potential. Im not from one of the states where young deer is all u can hope for, I just wanna know what the logic is behind this?


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thwack16
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby thwack16 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:52 pm

To my knowledge, Texas is the only state that allows it in this form. Though, a "prime" wma or two here in ms will give out spike tags and they are allowed to be taken under our DMAP program if the spikes are under a certain length (I think 3").

The thought process on taking out spikes stems from taking out the lowest potential bucks from the herd to keep them from taking the groceries and breeding opportunities from the higher potential bucks.

It is a very ignorant thought process and has long been disproved, but a few biologist are apparently still holding onto it.

Here's the progression of a buck in a study that Mississippi State did. I hate to link fb, but this is the only place I could find this study.

https://m.facebook.com/theqdma/photos/a ... 8939858775
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Hawthorne
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby Hawthorne » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:58 pm

We see the occasional spike in southern Michigan where they aren't common. They usually have small bodies compared to a yearling 6 or 8 point. They are late born fawns imo. They've had spikes turn into booners in controlled environments. I hate when I hear guys say they shot a small buck because it had poor genetics.
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby vtbuck » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:04 pm

Stupid people making stupid laws/rules. Just my opinion.
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby Tennhunter3 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:14 pm

Several big game laws make absolutely no since. I think people who come up with some of the hunting laws have never been hunting.

Several areas ive hunted are 9 point or better which is insane since most mature bucks are 8 points. Dunno who came up with that one either.

I would be crying if i let a 140 inch 8 point walk because he is too small to shoot!
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby Stanley » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:20 pm

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:53 pm

It's just ignorance.
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magicman54494
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby magicman54494 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:00 pm

i believe your error is in assuming that there is logic used in law making.
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby bowfreak8 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:24 am

I hear this line of thinking far too often.
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby SMS79 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:00 am

Tennhunter3 wrote:Several areas ive hunted are 9 point or better which is insane since most mature bucks are 8 points.


??? :shock: I've heard some of these lines of thinking before, and can even see some points being made (though I don't agree with them), BUT that sounds like potentially the most counterproductive "QDMA" practice I've ever heard. 9pt or better? I'm not considering sticker/trash points in this, but that would mean you're targeting deer with at least one G4. If the goal is to grow "quality" racks, under that rule, the 2.5 & 3.5 yr old 9pt+ just became the #1 hit list bucks of the vast majority of the deer hunting population...because they're the visible deer with G4's. On the flip side of the coin, I'm looking at pics right now of a 6.5 yr old 8pt that may score 130 if he's lucky, and there is no telling how many younger bucks with G4's & better potential that he has run off the property because we have been unable to take him out. Can't imagine an actual good reason for it to be illegal to shoot a deer like that. Along that same line of thinking, down here in GA there are some counties with antler restrictions that include a minimum 15" inside spread. My uncle shot a 5.5 or 6.5 yr old 8pt a few years ago that had an 11" inside spread....and 11" G2's. Not a great score, but a super-cool, old buck with alot of character and uniqueness to his rack. That buck would have been illegal by the letter of the law in one of those counties. Hopefully a game warden would have some common sense in a situation like that.
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby Horizontal Hunter » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:43 am

vtbuck wrote:Stupid people making stupid laws/rules. Just my opinion.


This is the root cause for sure. Living where I live I learned a long time ago not to try to apply common sense and/or logic to the laws. All it will do is leave you confused and agitated.

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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby Jonny » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:23 am

Couple years ago a buddy shot a spike that dressed 210. Wish I still had the picture. That one either had some serious injuries or some messed up genetics, but body size said it was a mature buck. I also know a couple guys who have shot some seriously big spikes off their farms. Some pushing 10-12" in length, and they were mature deer. Would never say they should make a spike tag, but yeah messed up genetics do happen, and if they reproduce, they do come around again. My family has a dozen or so racks of bucks without brow tines. One or two is one thing, but a dozen shows me that it is genetics in our area.

But a spike tag just seems stupid. Then again, how many deer hunters are actually writing deer hunting related laws?
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby woodswalker » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:41 am

I have seen spike bucks with 12 or 13 inch antler lengths and a wide spread and they were mature deer. I have also seen buck with very wide and high antlers several years in a row that were 4 pointers or Y buck, it was easy to tell it was the same deer that were mature deer and they could not be shot except by a junior, senior handicapped or military hunter on leave because where I hunt it is minimum of 3 points on at least one side. There are some deer that will be the same year after year and will never get better with age.
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby sgspencer » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:39 pm

Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept. did a big study years ago that determined a 1.5 yo spike buck will never (or rarely) catch up to a comparable 1.5 yo that has a forkhorn or greater. You can look up Kerr WMA study if you want to read all the scientific details. Readers digest version is they trapped wild deer in Texas, put them in a controlled environment to closely control breeding for many generations. They were also all given the same high quality diet with optimum protein. Basically they showed that nutrition not being a factor a 1.5 yo spike will usually never "catch up" with a forkhorn buck based on genetics. Again, the diet fed these deer were optimal. Since many counties in Texas are 2 buck counties they decided to allow one "quality" buck and the option of shooting a second buck that most likely would not catch up to the others.
In reality I doubt that enough spikes are taken each year to make a significant change in genetics however. Also since this study was only with Texas deer it may not necessarily apply to other areas. I'm not sure if other states have done any similar studies.
I personally do not shoot spikes since I hunt for mature bucks. Does eat better anyway!
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Re: Spike buck question?

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:21 pm

I've read all these studies and they just leave me scratching my head. Quite honestly think they are just trying to sell u the bill of goods they cooked up. They supposedly did a 10 year breeding study for my area and concluded a peak breeding date which isn't even remotely close to anything I have witnessed.
“When standing on the walls of the Alamo the outcome has already been decided. All that’s left is to kill as many as you can.”

-Beth Dutton-


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