Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
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Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
Hello everyone, Mtnbowhunter here from east Tennessee. I've done lots of reading here and finally decided to join in. I'm just trying to figure out thermals and the whole bed hunting idea and have a few questions.
First, how do thermals flow through really steep terrain or any hill country for that matter? Do they rise up the hollows and to the tops of ridges or do they rise up the sides of points and then on to the tops of ridges? I feel like they should rise and fall in the hollows. Which brings me to my second question.
Second, If they rise and fall in the hollows wouldn't it make more sense for them to bed in upper ends of hollows between points or ridges instead of on the ends of points so they could catch thermals falling from 2 directions?
Third, I've been doing a lot of post season scouting here in the mtn's and finding most of the buck beds on the North side of a east-west running mtn on little points near the top. Most of this north side doesn't see very much sun. So if a south wind makes them bed there but it stays shady on that side wouldn't the thermals fall most of the day and not create a wind tunnel where they are bedding? I've found beds pounded into the dirt so i know they are being used and it's really got me interested in learning all this.
If needed I'll try and figure out how to upload a topo map of the area when i get home from work. Thanks in advance for any help.
First, how do thermals flow through really steep terrain or any hill country for that matter? Do they rise up the hollows and to the tops of ridges or do they rise up the sides of points and then on to the tops of ridges? I feel like they should rise and fall in the hollows. Which brings me to my second question.
Second, If they rise and fall in the hollows wouldn't it make more sense for them to bed in upper ends of hollows between points or ridges instead of on the ends of points so they could catch thermals falling from 2 directions?
Third, I've been doing a lot of post season scouting here in the mtn's and finding most of the buck beds on the North side of a east-west running mtn on little points near the top. Most of this north side doesn't see very much sun. So if a south wind makes them bed there but it stays shady on that side wouldn't the thermals fall most of the day and not create a wind tunnel where they are bedding? I've found beds pounded into the dirt so i know they are being used and it's really got me interested in learning all this.
If needed I'll try and figure out how to upload a topo map of the area when i get home from work. Thanks in advance for any help.
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
Most of my experiance is with hills, not mountains, but, we have some pretty big steep hills in bluff country. Thermals naturally rise straight up from the ground. They pull up the hill side on leeward sides cause of a vacuum effect. They don't rise up draws or "hollows" as you called them, they just go up all the hill sides. Dropping thermals are different though, they are like water and do follow the landscape. They will follow the low points like water poured on the top. Most of the dfay while deer are bedded, thermals should be rising. In the evening when the sun is on the other side they should drop when its shadowed from the sun.
"IF" you could accomplish a leeward side without a thermal rise and drop air current, they would still bed there. I see them bed leeward sides in hills where they can't bed in the thermal tunnel, and I see them bed leeward on hills that are only 10 feet high...
"IF" you could accomplish a leeward side without a thermal rise and drop air current, they would still bed there. I see them bed leeward sides in hills where they can't bed in the thermal tunnel, and I see them bed leeward on hills that are only 10 feet high...
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
Thanks Dan. This mtn goes from about 2000 ft at the bottom to 3800 at the top. The beds I've found were right where the ridges turned off relatively steep right about the 3600 ft elevation. These ridges run North off the top of the mtn and generally one side if the ridge will get hardly any sunlight while the other may get it for most of the day after the sun gets up over the mtn. Do you think this could cause some kind of swirling thermal advantage if one side of the ridge had a rising thermal and the other side was falling or will the rising thermals on one side still pull air up from the darker side? Maybe I'm just over complicating things for myself i tend to have OCD when it comes to this stuff lol.
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
I don't think the sunny side will effect the shadow side.
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
What happens on a cloudy day versus a sunny day?
"One of the chief attractions of the life of the wilderness is its rugged and stalwart democracy; there every man stands for what he actually is and can show himself to be." — Theodore Roosevelt, 1893
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
I guess thermals would fall on a cloudy day right? This whole idea is new to me I've never thought of thermals at all till i started reading stuff on here.
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
They rise on cloudy days. It takes a hard shadow to cool the area enough to drop. Suns heat penetrates clouds.
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
[quote="dan"]They rise on cloudy days. It takes a hard shadow to cool the area enough to drop. Suns heat penetrates clouds.[/quote
I hope this is not a silly question , but I read where wind trumpets thermals, and now im reading this and some other stuff but havent or don't remember seeing a whole lot about temp. Is there a tempture range that can cancel out thermals ? Or does it take alot of cold days ? I can see where warmer ground temps on a cold day for a short periods of time can still have some thermals but what if its been cold for a while and its been cloudy will colder temps cancel out thermals or is there some effect somehow?
I hope this is not a silly question , but I read where wind trumpets thermals, and now im reading this and some other stuff but havent or don't remember seeing a whole lot about temp. Is there a tempture range that can cancel out thermals ? Or does it take alot of cold days ? I can see where warmer ground temps on a cold day for a short periods of time can still have some thermals but what if its been cold for a while and its been cloudy will colder temps cancel out thermals or is there some effect somehow?
Bucks,ducks, turkeys,and bass!
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
I hunt here in the East Tennessee mountains from about 1100 ft elev. to 1400-1800ft. The name that I have given these public land deer that I hunt is "masters of the wind". These deer feel the most comfortable on the most narrow steep points off the main ridge. They can see 345 degrees seems like and the other 15 they can smell. One area I hunt is also an east/ west ridge that has big buck beds and doe bedding on the north side and hunting pressure on very top.When I hunt the north side (leeward side) during a very rare south/ southeast wind, I am able to get the closest to these deer without getting busted on entry. The thermals there are slow to rise because the sun is slow to heat the ground and lake water on that north side of the mountain so my scent is still flowing downhill (hopefully)before daylight and even an hour or so after because that warming hasn't occurred yet. But when hunting the south slope on a north wind its more tricky because the ground and water are heating just a little faster even on real cold days, so deer above me have a greater chance of busting me on entry if I am late getting there or post season when bucks are back to their beds way before daylight . From what I can tell there's not a lot of difference in the thermal flow in the hollows versus the steep ridges. I have only seen thermal differences due to how quick the sun's radiant heat hits the ground, water, crops, etc..... And starts warming. Then the thermals start rising.
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
I found 2 beds Saturday in steep WNC mountains. One was on a north facing slope in edge of laurels. He could see good down into the cove below...I didnt' feel any thermal pull while in the bed... The other was on a southwest facing side of a spur ridge, off the north side of the east-west running main ridgeline... it was bed worn to dirt on super steep slope, right on a 5x5' flat spot, in middle of laurel thicket... He had a trail going each way out of the bed... I think he is unhuntable in that bed... laurels are so thick you have to crawl on all fours to get to him...
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
UofLbowhunter wrote:dan wrote:They rise on cloudy days. It takes a hard shadow to cool the area enough to drop. Suns heat penetrates clouds.[/quote
I hope this is not a silly question , but I read where wind trumpets thermals, and now im reading this and some other stuff but havent or don't remember seeing a whole lot about temp. Is there a tempture range that can cancel out thermals ? Or does it take alot of cold days ? I can see where warmer ground temps on a cold day for a short periods of time can still have some thermals but what if its been cold for a while and its been cloudy will colder temps cancel out thermals or is there some effect somehow?
Thermals are a given... The one thing you can count on day to day. Wind shifts, it stops, its heavy its light, its unpredictable... Thermals are always there, and always predictable. You can set your watch to them.
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
Good discussion. Here is a video I found recently on wind/thermals and terrain. I'm sure it's been posted in the past.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-g8EY-1dPE
I hear a lot of talk about deer bedding in thick laurel/rhododendron, which normally grows on the north facing slopes. The more beds I find, the more I believe they like bed in open woods, with little undergrowth. On the land I hunt, rhododendron is usually growing on such a steep slope, there is rarely a flat patch to bed on, so I think that deters them. Large trees just become blowdowns on such steep slopes, leaving room for laurel. I've only found 2 beds in the edge of laurel thickets.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-g8EY-1dPE
I hear a lot of talk about deer bedding in thick laurel/rhododendron, which normally grows on the north facing slopes. The more beds I find, the more I believe they like bed in open woods, with little undergrowth. On the land I hunt, rhododendron is usually growing on such a steep slope, there is rarely a flat patch to bed on, so I think that deters them. Large trees just become blowdowns on such steep slopes, leaving room for laurel. I've only found 2 beds in the edge of laurel thickets.
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Re: Thermal Flow/Bed Hunting
Hope y'all can see the picture . They yellow dots are buck beds and the red dots are doe beds. All the buck beds are on small flat spots on narrow ridges right where they turn off really steep in semi thick woods. The 2 circled beds are right above a huge Laurel thicket and pretty much straight down terrain. Most of the South face is thicker mountain ivy where i thought i would find most of the bedding but that wasn't the case, it may have something to with not being able to see far from the bed i don't know.
We generally get more south winds here than anything but they get pretty rough 35-50 mph with higher gusts (Google east Tennessee mountain wave winds) which would put deer on the north face. This should make a pretty strong uphill pull from the North side with the wind coming over the mtn right?
http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/tnbow ... %20Uploads
We generally get more south winds here than anything but they get pretty rough 35-50 mph with higher gusts (Google east Tennessee mountain wave winds) which would put deer on the north face. This should make a pretty strong uphill pull from the North side with the wind coming over the mtn right?
http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/tnbow ... %20Uploads
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