Swamp bucks diet

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Chuck B
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Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby Chuck B » Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:06 pm

Had a nice run in with a mature buck earlier this week in some river bottom/swampy land. It's a nice spot however with higher points/saddles that have plenty of oak trees, etc. This buck had a chocolate dark rack with white tips. Probably would score about a 150. Just a beast of a body too. There are a couple miles worth of river bottom/oak trees, etc. My brother in-law were discussing the chocolate rack and wondered if that came from his diet? In your guys experience, do some of these older "swamp bucks" stay in the bottoms/swamps most of the time? Or, if there are agricultural fields not too far away, (higher ground following the river bottoms) are they most likely to hit the fields at night with most of the other deer? I know each deer is unique, but have you guys noticed some of these behaviors from some big swamp bucks?

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Re: Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby dan » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:29 pm

Diet has nothing to do with rack color. Antlers are bone white. Coloration has to do with staining from rubbing trees. Usually dark colored racks come from bucks that rub sappy trees like pine.
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Re: Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby cbigbear » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:22 am

Dan do you find habait/cover can be a factor in rack color? I.e. if a buck is in cover that allows his rack to get more sun & be bleached out vs less sunlight & darker.

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Chuck B
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Re: Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby Chuck B » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:28 am

dan wrote:Diet has nothing to do with rack color. Antlers are bone white. Coloration has to do with staining from rubbing trees. Usually dark colored racks come from bucks that rub sappy trees like pine.



Thanks Dan. That's what I had thought as well, but wasn't sure. Now, for the other part of the question, Dan, or anyone, do you have any insight as to the bucks staying in the swamp if they can find enough to eat there? Or, if they have access to agriculture crops, which these deer would with a small bit of travel, will they most undoubtedly hit the ag fields at night? Where I hunt, most of ag fields they would go to are not shineable at night, so that scouting option is not there. I would bet that these older bucks do come "up" to feed, but wanted to get some thoughts from you guys if possible.

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Re: Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby dan » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:06 am

cbigbear wrote:Dan do you find habait/cover can be a factor in rack color? I.e. if a buck is in cover that allows his rack to get more sun & be bleached out vs less sunlight & darker.

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Im not sure... Could be. I can say that I have been in areas that have very few pines and see a chocolate rack and go strait to the pines and get on the buck.. So knowing this could be a slight advantage...
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Re: Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby dan » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:09 am

There is plenty for a deer to eat in a swamp... Actually swamps have much better food supply than open hardwoods. They don't need crops to survive, or to grow big. He may or may not be traveling to crops. Your scouting will have to determine that.
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Re: Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby Hatchetman » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:41 pm

dan wrote:
cbigbear wrote:Dan do you find habait/cover can be a factor in rack color? I.e. if a buck is in cover that allows his rack to get more sun & be bleached out vs less sunlight & darker.

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Im not sure... Could be. I can say that I have been in areas that have very few pines and see a chocolate rack and go strait to the pines and get on the buck.. So knowing this could be a slight advantage...



I have a few theories on what causes rack color.
I believe as much one bucks behavior can be text book, there are others who don't follow protocol.

I think it all takes place in first 2 weeks after velvet shedding.
I think most bucks start thrashing small saplings as soon as it loosens, then , others don't really give 2 hoots about it and let the shreds of velvet just fall off on its own. When they do this , I think it gives the air exposed blood time to actually soak into the freshly exposed antler a bit, couple that with a day or two of no rain which would allowing the acid in the residual blood to further stain the antler somewhat.
Now add in that this buck beds exclusively in a heavy shaded area (like a cedar swamp) and that buck, IMO, is going to have a dark rack. So Dan's theory on dark racked bucks hanging in pines is correct. I however don't agree totally with the rubbing aspect and here's why.
Every dark racked buck, or at least what I'd call a dark racked buck, I have ever seen up close has a pretty uniformly tinted color to the rack. In between the tines, way out towards the ends of the main beam, on the underside of the main beam, its all dark. I would think it highly unlikely these areas getting the same attention to rubbing activity as the G1 to G2 areas and therefore wouldn't that cause the antler in these, sap starved areas to be much lighter? I agree most bucks with any kind of a rack will have varying degrees of sap staining in the G1,G2 areas, just don't agree it's sap that tints the whole rack.

If I had a deer farm, I surely would try keeping a buck locked up in the barn for a couple of weeks right after velvet shed to see if my theory is correct.
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Re: Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby john1984 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:02 pm

The following is a copy and paste from an old thread. It was a reply by beast member backstraps.

"

Here is what I came up with. This question was posed before on another site I visit. The reply was given by a qualified poster I feel. He is kind of blunt in his replies, so dont take offense, I am simply copy and pasting :) The poster has done many years of extensive study and research along side with Dr Grant Woods


Bucks with dark antlers bled more when their velvet split. The dark color is only a thin patina on the antlers, and when chemically analyzed, this thin patina is found to be blood absorbed into the outer layer of the antler bone.

Bucks with white racks didn't split their velvet until the velvet was completely dead, hence no bleeding and no absorbed blood patina.

And no, buck rack color does NOT come from what tree they rub on. Vigorous rubbing actually wears away antler bone, exposing the whiter core. Dark-racked bucks have their dark rack from day 1 after velvet shedding.

And no, bucks with whiter racks are NOT bucks that live out in the open where the sun bleaches the rack while dark racked buck live in the shaded forest.



Quote:
Is it a genetic thing?


Yes, it can be genetic, in that some bucks are genetically programmed to split velvet early, when it will bleed and stain the antlers, while some bucks may be genetically programmed to not split velvet until the velvet is completely dead, hence a white rack.



Quote:
Would it have anything to do with the core habitat of the buck?


Nope. Dark and white-racked bucks can be found in every habitat.

With bucks raised in fenced pens, where they have absolutely nothing to rub on, you see both chocolate brown racks and bone white racks. And the dark racks are dark from the time their velvet splits (and bleeds profusely).

ALL antlers are bone white under the velvet. They are just bone. In essence, they don't grow as dark racks under the velvet. "...

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Re: Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby Hatchetman » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:33 pm

I guess, I'm almost 1/2 right with my assumption! lol.

It does make sense though what he is saying. Here in Wi, I've have seen dark racked bucks killed on opening day of bow season so it sure wouldn't give them a very long time to saturate their racks with tree sap in just 2 weeks or so.

I do question then, Why is it then bucks racks in a deer farm/pen almost always look chalk white. I always thought it was because they just laid out in the open everyday because they didn't have a care in the world and their racks would get bleached out from the sun. So why wouldn't the exact opposite, a buck laying under a heavy pine canopy have the exact opposite effect?

I always remember the pics in Outdoor life, They'd usually have about 15 big, chalk white racked bucks running through an over browsed woods with some dumb article with it.
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Re: Swamp bucks diet

Unread postby dan » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:52 pm

I disagree with Mr Woods... And so do a lot of other biologists. Blood staining could have a little to do with it in very early season, but blood would get washed off and rubbed off. All antlers are white. They are bone. Sap makes them sticky and they get dirty. Every deer that I followed that rubbed pines had dark antlers, all the ones that rubbed primarily hardwoods had white anters. Look at a game farm with no rubbing trees... Every deer will have bone white antlers.


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