Repetitive buck movement

[dan]

The more I think about this topic, the more I think it is VERY situational. Not all regions are conducive for observing (big woods like Maine is dealing with)... Not all terrain types are going to see the same amount of repetitive movement... Sometimes the property itself won't be conducive for observing, deer density/buck quality/hunting pressure all factor in. The list could go on and on.

WTA I am thinking that you are a big advocate of observing because of your [glow=red]specificity for one of a few select bucks[/glow]. You only have a couple bucks on your hit list, and running around bedding area to bedding area isn't the best approach for you. Throw in the fact that you have a property that is capable of producing big bucks annually, you know the property like the back of your hand due to YEARS of scouting observation and hard work, and you are able to observe without being too intrusive. Saying it the way I just did is probably making it sound far easier than it actually is. I know the amount of effort you put in! You have your recipe for success figured out and it works well.

For me on the other hand, I'm gunning for [glow=red]ANY[/glow] 3.5 or better. I don't care what he scores. This was only my 3rd year scouting (2nd for my best property). I don't have the intimate knowledge of this property that I need in order to feel confident that "If he's not in this bedding area this time of year, I'd be willing to bet he's bedding over here." There is quite a level of "crap shoot" for my situation. On top of that, often times if I observe and he's not there, he's likely on the private land next door.

My biggest issue is the availability of observation stands. I can't see most of my bedding until I'm either in my kill tree or close enough that I feel I'm burning that bridge trying to observe. Especially since I'm not targeting a specific buck(s), I feel that HUNTING SMART and hunting these beds one by one is the best option [glow=red]for me[/glow] at this point in time.

I'm not trying to tell anyone else what to do, but like I said before I would hate for some of the new guys to be sitting back in observation stands more than they should thinking they're doing the right thing. You have "passive" and "aggressive"... the right combination of both is likely different for a lot of hunters. Being too passive will cost you deer, as will being too aggressive.

One of Dan's comments stuck out to me regarding our 25% chance of seeing the buck after observing. "I'd rather have a 1 in 4 chance than a 1 in 20". Me too The problem I have with that statement is to get to that one in four, how many of those 1 in 20 sits did you have? Like I said before, I typically see 1 or 2 shooters PER YEAR. (I'm confident that number will rise in the future due to becoming more proficient with Beast tactics.) If we're going by numbers, I would need to lay eyes on 4 shooters a year to "guarantee" that I will be effective with my 25% success rate. In theory one of the 4 will show up. If I'm only seeing one or two shooters a year, MOST years I'm not going to punch a tag.

The argument could be made: "If you back off a little more, maybe your sightings will go up." That may be true

My way of thinking is that as long as I play my cards right and hunt smart, I'm going to be in the game on those one or two encounters. Now let's take Dan's situation. He's got a lot of bedding nailed down and a lot of experience. Correct me if I'm wrong Dan, but if you bowhunted hard I'm betting you could lay eyes on 4 or 5 shooter bucks a year. That's just a guess. With that many encounters his likelihood for success that season is much higher, because is afforded that 25% chance two or three times as much as someone in a situation similar to mine.

Love the discussion guys! Like Dave said, this is why I love the Beast.

It is situational... It will work everywhere, but a lot less in some areas than others. Having an open mind will help in those tough areas... One thing that haS REALLY helped me with observation spots is that I am thinking about them when I am find / scouting bedding areas... In a lot of cases I have beds that I can actually climb a distant tree and see if the buck is in his bed, which buck it is, and decide to hunt that day. I often mark the bed with a colored ribbon. In other cases I can often see an observation tree/spot from the staging... Often not, but often you can.... SOME SPOTS ITS EASY TO JUST GO IN AND THROW A STAND AT, BUT SOME HAVE MULTIPLE EXITS AND IF I JUST JUMP IN AND THE BUCKS THERE I MIGHT BE SITTING ON THE WRONG EXIT AND BLEW MY CHANCE CAUSE OF GETTING SCENT SO CLOSE...

[Stanley]

Great topic for discussion. Looks to me like a short synopsis might be; the better you know the land you hunt the better your chances are. I mean isn't this what scouting and cameras do? When you know the sweet spots of an area and can eliminate some of the junks spots this makes everything better.

If a buck is in a bedding area and you know where he isn't headed this helps you figure out where he is headed. Observation stands may be better utilized when you have limited knowledge of an area. You can't just go busting into an area and hope to find the sweet spot!! I have moved in from an observation stand many times to get to the sweet spot, I didn't know was there.

For me, I like to get into the staging area a buck uses. If I can find an isolated staging area I might just catch a buck on its feet. At least this has been my findings. I just don't have the sneak skills to get within 50 yards of most bedded bucks. So if I can find a staging area 100-150 yards from a bucks bedding area. I'm happy as a pig in mud.

I think size of an area makes a vast difference. In the big woods 1000 acres or about 1.5 square miles is minuscule. In agriculture areas 1000 acres is huge. So as already mentioned observations stands may very well be area specific for most of us.

[DaveT1963]

Great topic for discussion. Looks to me like a short synopsis might be; the better you know the land you hunt the better your chances are. I mean isn't this what scouting and cameras do? When you know the sweet spots of an area and can eliminate some of the junks spots this makes everything better.

If a buck is in a bedding area and you know where he isn't headed this helps you figure out where he is headed. Observation stands may be better utilized when you have limited knowledge of an area. You can't just go busting into an area and hope to find the sweet spot!! I have moved in from an observation stand many times to get to the sweet spot, I didn't know was there.

For me, I like to get into the staging area a buck uses. If I can find an isolated staging area I might just catch a buck on its feet. At least this has been my findings. I just don't have the sneak skills to get within 50 yards of most bedded bucks. So if I can find a staging area 100-150 yards from a bucks bedding area. I'm happy as a pig in mud.

I think size of an area makes a vast difference. In the big woods 1000 acres or about 1.5 square miles is minuscule. In agriculture areas 1000 acres is huge. So as already mentioned observations stands may very well be area specific for most of us.

x 2 - you beat me to it Stanley

I think there needs to be a clear distinction between sitting an "observation" stand to find out if a good buck is in the area you plan to hunt and sitting an "observation stand" to narrow in on a specific vulnerability of a buck you are already aware of and hunting. IMHO the two are two totally different processes.

[Rubline]

Lots of good info and comments: I would just reinforce using a log for what you observe. What was the date, the moon phase, the weather and especially the wind direction. Seeing a Big Buck come out of an exact spot does not mean he will walk in the same tracks the next evening. What if the wind was wrong for that spot the next morning for the buck. For me I will quote Don Higgins in that you observe movement this year to capitalize opportunities for next year. This is a practice I like using observation for. Also, bring a video camera along to document what you observe. Much easier to recall what happened and what conditions were like.

[Lockdown]

SOME SPOTS ITS EASY TO JUST GO IN AND THROW A STAND AT, BUT SOME HAVE MULTIPLE EXITS AND IF I JUST JUMP IN AND THE BUCKS THERE I MIGHT BE SITTING ON THE WRONG EXIT AND BLEW MY CHANCE CAUSE OF GETTING SCENT SO CLOSE...

Thanks Dan. That was the type of response I was hoping for.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[mainebowhunter]

SOME SPOTS ITS EASY TO JUST GO IN AND THROW A STAND AT, BUT SOME HAVE MULTIPLE EXITS AND IF I JUST JUMP IN AND THE BUCKS THERE I MIGHT BE SITTING ON THE WRONG EXIT AND BLEW MY CHANCE CAUSE OF GETTING SCENT SO CLOSE...

Thanks Dan. That was the type of response I was hoping for.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

And this is where /how I use my trailcams. I cannot observe what is going on...just 2 thick. BUT buck or bucks are staging and exiting the bed in at least 3 different spots. So I hunt from the outside in. Less obtrusive first and then I will dive in after a couple of hunts. I could probably cover 2 exits with sight...but not all of them. 2 of the 3 exits have 3-4' scrapes and rubs. The good news is...IF a buck is using that bed and IF the buck exits one of those ways, I have a 33% chance right? And if he not? I have 3 other locations that he or one of his friends might be at. Its why I will be using 20-25 trailcams this season. I cast a pretty big net and then start repositioning trail cams to narrow down movements.

Hoping by the time the season comes...I have the bed exit picked on the highest odds. My goal is to be as close to the money as I can on my first few sits. I also do not hunt much during November. So certain areas are all out in Sept. Other areas, all out in first of Oct. Another farm, all out the last week of Oct. If I burn the area out in a week, don't care.

One of the things I really try to get better at is learning how to read the sign...without having years of knowledge on a place. Basically, its how I hunt the midwest a lot of years. I don't the luxury of sitting back and observing. I have to read a map, read the sign and try to make it happen. Approach has worked out well as I am normally hunting the rut AND I am only there for couple weeks. I observe when I hunt and make moves accordingly. If I see something happen once or 2x, I get down and move right away.

In the end, what I am kind of picking up, we all use different terms, even different methods but many of us are kind of going about everything the same way. The majority of you guys are not relying on woodsmanship skills to get on deer. Flat out hard work and boot leather.

[whitetailassasin]

The more I think about this topic, the more I think it is VERY situational. Not all regions are conducive for observing (big woods like Maine is dealing with)... Not all terrain types are going to see the same amount of repetitive movement... Sometimes the property itself won't be conducive for observing, deer density/buck quality/hunting pressure all factor in. The list could go on and on.

WTA I am thinking that you are a big advocate of observing because of your [glow=red]specificity for one of a few select bucks[/glow]. You only have a couple bucks on your hit list, and running around bedding area to bedding area isn't the best approach for you. Throw in the fact that you have a property that is capable of producing big bucks annually, you know the property like the back of your hand due to YEARS of scouting observation and hard work, and you are able to observe without being too intrusive. Saying it the way I just did is probably making it sound far easier than it actually is. I know the amount of effort you put in! You have your recipe for success figured out and it works well.

For me on the other hand, I'm gunning for [glow=red]ANY[/glow] 3.5 or better. I don't care what he scores. This was only my 3rd year scouting (2nd for my best property). I don't have the intimate knowledge of this property that I need in order to feel confident that "If he's not in this bedding area this time of year, I'd be willing to bet he's bedding over here." There is quite a level of "crap shoot" for my situation. On top of that, often times if I observe and he's not there, he's likely on the private land next door.

My biggest issue is the availability of observation stands. I can't see most of my bedding until I'm either in my kill tree or close enough that I feel I'm burning that bridge trying to observe. Especially since I'm not targeting a specific buck(s), I feel that HUNTING SMART and hunting these beds one by one is the best option [glow=red]for me[/glow] at this point in time.

I'm not trying to tell anyone else what to do, but like I said before I would hate for some of the new guys to be sitting back in observation stands more than they should thinking they're doing the right thing. You have "passive" and "aggressive"... the right combination of both is likely different for a lot of hunters. Being too passive will cost you deer, as will being too aggressive.

One of Dan's comments stuck out to me regarding our 25% chance of seeing the buck after observing. "I'd rather have a 1 in 4 chance than a 1 in 20". Me too The problem I have with that statement is to get to that one in four, how many of those 1 in 20 sits did you have? Like I said before, I typically see 1 or 2 shooters PER YEAR. (I'm confident that number will rise in the future due to becoming more proficient with Beast tactics.) If we're going by numbers, I would need to lay eyes on 4 shooters a year to "guarantee" that I will be effective with my 25% success rate. In theory one of the 4 will show up. If I'm only seeing one or two shooters a year, MOST years I'm not going to punch a tag.

The argument could be made: "If you back off a little more, maybe your sightings will go up." That may be true

My way of thinking is that as long as I play my cards right and hunt smart, I'm going to be in the game on those one or two encounters. Now let's take Dan's situation. He's got a lot of bedding nailed down and a lot of experience. Correct me if I'm wrong Dan, but if you bowhunted hard I'm betting you could lay eyes on 4 or 5 shooter bucks a year. That's just a guess. With that many encounters his likelihood for success that season is much higher, because is afforded that 25% chance two or three times as much as someone in a situation similar to mine.

Love the discussion guys! Like Dave said, this is why I love the Beast.

It is situational... It will work everywhere, but a lot less in some areas than others. Having an open mind will help in those tough areas... One thing that haS REALLY helped me with observation spots is that I am thinking about them when I am find / scouting bedding areas... In a lot of cases I have beds that I can actually climb a distant tree and see if the buck is in his bed, which buck it is, and decide to hunt that day. I often mark the bed with a colored ribbon. In other cases I can often see an observation tree/spot from the staging... Often not, but often you can.... SOME SPOTS ITS EASY TO JUST GO IN AND THROW A STAND AT, BUT SOME HAVE MULTIPLE EXITS AND IF I JUST JUMP IN AND THE BUCKS THERE I MIGHT BE SITTING ON THE WRONG EXIT AND BLEW MY CHANCE CAUSE OF GETTING SCENT SO CLOSE...

The caps caption is exactly why I sit the observation stand before just diving in. Preferred travel routes, food destination, whatever the reason (and id like to add watching where they go and then finding out why is a nice tip).

Lockdown, I have spent a long time finding areas that hold mature bucks, and can produce steadily. On pressured public it's very very hard to do, but those spots are out there. Once found, I can't stress enough the importance of knowing everything you possibly can about the area, bedding, entrance, exit, wind/thermals, travel patterns, rut patterns, doe bedding, satellite bedding, and the deer your chasing. It doesn't happen overnight, and you eluded to you believing your sightings on mature bucks to go up in the future, and by knowing the areas you hunt like the back of your hand, how deer use them, and confirm mature bucks are there, you will. I too am like Dan, I use my winter/spring scouting to identify observation stands, sometimes it's away from where the movement is occurring but in a position I can see the bed and his travel route. I use public access trails, human trails, terrain features, creeks, water, whatever I can to cover my scent trail so as to not alert the bucks I'm hunting. We covered this in our scouting workshop in Michigan. Deer get conditioned to smelling human scent in certain areas, and also know when it's too close to there home. To me the observation distance is up to you and the amount of damage it does to the bucks bedding area. I don't have a yard distance, it's generally a safe distance away from the bucks bedding and travel routes. There are some stands I have that are in thick and I can really observe, this is where I use the physical sign, tracks, rubs, that may lead into them on travel routes leading to a bed that let me know it's being used. Fresh sign is deadly. There are many different ways to observe sign that will allow you to make a higher percentage opportunity on a bedded whitetail. Public guys who have the advantage of being mobile and going anywhere to find and locate mature bucks, private guys have the advantage of holding mature deer on a property and managing it and making it better with planting, making bedding, etc. One thing I don't like about private and why I've always loved public is if it's not holding mature bucks it's worthless, and bucks you have on nighttime cameras can string you alone and effectively lower your odds of seeing better deer and more often.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Stanley]

Another thing I should point out observation stands can be good or can be a bust. I have hung many stands as observation stands that were totally worthless. Just had one like that last year. Put the stand up and never did sit it. Just wasn't right for any benefit.

[dan]

SOME SPOTS ITS EASY TO JUST GO IN AND THROW A STAND AT, BUT SOME HAVE MULTIPLE EXITS AND IF I JUST JUMP IN AND THE BUCKS THERE I MIGHT BE SITTING ON THE WRONG EXIT AND BLEW MY CHANCE CAUSE OF GETTING SCENT SO CLOSE...

Thanks Dan. That was the type of response I was hoping for.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

And this is where /how I use my trailcams. I cannot observe what is going on...just 2 thick. BUT buck or bucks are staging and exiting the bed in at least 3 different spots. So I hunt from the outside in. Less obtrusive first and then I will dive in after a couple of hunts. I could probably cover 2 exits with sight...but not all of them. 2 of the 3 exits have 3-4' scrapes and rubs. The good news is...IF a buck is using that bed and IF the buck exits one of those ways, I have a 33% chance right? And if he not? I have 3 other locations that he or one of his friends might be at. Its why I will be using 20-25 trailcams this season. I cast a pretty big net and then start repositioning trail cams to narrow down movements.

Hoping by the time the season comes...I have the bed exit picked on the highest odds. My goal is to be as close to the money as I can on my first few sits. I also do not hunt much during November. So certain areas are all out in Sept. Other areas, all out in first of Oct. Another farm, all out the last week of Oct. If I burn the area out in a week, don't care.

One of the things I really try to get better at is learning how to read the sign...without having years of knowledge on a place. Basically, its how I hunt the midwest a lot of years. I don't the luxury of sitting back and observing. I have to read a map, read the sign and try to make it happen. Approach has worked out well as I am normally hunting the rut AND I am only there for couple weeks. I observe when I hunt and make moves accordingly. If I see something happen once or 2x, I get down and move right away.

In the end, what I am kind of picking up, we all use different terms, even different methods but many of us are kind of going about everything the same way. The majority of you guys are not relying on woodsmanship skills to get on deer. Flat out hard work and boot leather.

I would have a hard time not spooking and shutting down deer movement if I put trail cameras close enough to monitor beds...

[Stanley]

SOME SPOTS ITS EASY TO JUST GO IN AND THROW A STAND AT, BUT SOME HAVE MULTIPLE EXITS AND IF I JUST JUMP IN AND THE BUCKS THERE I MIGHT BE SITTING ON THE WRONG EXIT AND BLEW MY CHANCE CAUSE OF GETTING SCENT SO CLOSE...

Thanks Dan. That was the type of response I was hoping for.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

And this is where /how I use my trailcams. I cannot observe what is going on...just 2 thick. BUT buck or bucks are staging and exiting the bed in at least 3 different spots. So I hunt from the outside in. Less obtrusive first and then I will dive in after a couple of hunts. I could probably cover 2 exits with sight...but not all of them. 2 of the 3 exits have 3-4' scrapes and rubs. The good news is...IF a buck is using that bed and IF the buck exits one of those ways, I have a 33% chance right? And if he not? I have 3 other locations that he or one of his friends might be at. Its why I will be using 20-25 trailcams this season. I cast a pretty big net and then start repositioning trail cams to narrow down movements.

Hoping by the time the season comes...I have the bed exit picked on the highest odds. My goal is to be as close to the money as I can on my first few sits. I also do not hunt much during November. So certain areas are all out in Sept. Other areas, all out in first of Oct. Another farm, all out the last week of Oct. If I burn the area out in a week, don't care.

One of the things I really try to get better at is learning how to read the sign...without having years of knowledge on a place. Basically, its how I hunt the midwest a lot of years. I don't the luxury of sitting back and observing. I have to read a map, read the sign and try to make it happen. Approach has worked out well as I am normally hunting the rut AND I am only there for couple weeks. I observe when I hunt and make moves accordingly. If I see something happen once or 2x, I get down and move right away.

In the end, what I am kind of picking up, we all use different terms, even different methods but many of us are kind of going about everything the same way. The majority of you guys are not relying on woodsmanship skills to get on deer. Flat out hard work and boot leather.

I would have a hard time not spooking and shutting down deer movement if I put trail cameras close enough to monitor beds...

Would you have known about the bear bait buck with out a trail camera? Just knowing that buck lives is fun to know.

[DaveT1963]

I think most of us are actually saying the same exact thing - they are all tools (observation stands, trail cameras, shining, etc.) that all work under certain circumstances and in the right place.

However, the most important question each of us must answer is "what works for me."

Shining is a great tool and probably one of the easiest methods for locating mature bucks (sorry guys but there is not a lot of skill or technique required to stick a spot light out a truck window and drive around until you shine eyes) - provided you can drive close enough and you have the crop field to draw them in. Doesn't work for me unless I want to go to jail and/or lose hunting privileges, my truck and whatever else I have inside it.

Cameras no doubt will gather intel better over the long term (unless you can glass and shine areas every single day/night) but there is some risk that a buck can become wary and avoid the area (although I think this is way over exaggerated in most cases with some simple deployment methods).

Observation sits can work well to observe a secluded spot and pick up a few missing details - but really it is not an efficient way to take inventory or to cover a large number of areas and if the terrain won't allow you to find a good observation spot they aren't much use. And unless you have deer movement pegged to a tee - you are going to be spending a considerable amount of time sitting in them to get a look at a buck (I don't think most of us are good enough to predict buck movement to where we won"t spend just as many hours sitting an observation stand/for every time we see a target buck then we do while hunting) . To me their best value is in a brand new area, where I can glass from a high vantage point and see a ton of ground - then it might led me to a closer observation/hunting stand but usually I would move in for a kill after I saw a good buck from a distance. But I have used them, especiall early/late season and won't hesitate to do it again. They also have some value in picking up the final few details that are missing in our plan - we already have a good general idea of the habits of a buck we are pursuing )general idea or guess where he beds, eats, drinks, etc.,) and are just looking for the place to best ambush him.

Then there are top maps, aerial photos, plot maps, deer tracks, post season scouting, mineral licks, baits, etc.........


All have there place under the right circumstances. Use what works best for you and don't be afraid to try other things. I remember when Andrea, Myles Keller, a Gene Wensel were talking about bed hunting decades ago and the vast majority of people said it was taboo and it would run deer off ..... they didn't listen to what every one said and trusted their instincts and perfected bed hunting. Kind of reminds me about the folks claiming deer cameras spook so many deer - I have NOT found that to be the case at all.... provided you use your head about it and think through and study your technique using them. Then there was the grunt call, snort wheeze, etc........ Scrape hunting is another - most today say it is not a good tactic simply because they are hunting nighttime scrapes - but there have been too many slobs killed over them to discredit all scrapes.

I guess my bottom line is try it all. Don't let everyone else try it and then tell you if it works or not - sometimes their execution of a tactic, for lack of a better word, sux. And just because someone knocks down a ton of deer using a specific technique means that is a technique you should use, or even have the skill to use yet. Find what works for you where you hunt, perfect it and have confidence in yourself and your ability to get it done/figure it out......

Last, laugh a little if/when criticism comes or others question your technique - you can shut them up as you start hanging bucks up on the pole consistently while they are stuck on their "silver bullet."

[mainebowhunter]

SOME SPOTS ITS EASY TO JUST GO IN AND THROW A STAND AT, BUT SOME HAVE MULTIPLE EXITS AND IF I JUST JUMP IN AND THE BUCKS THERE I MIGHT BE SITTING ON THE WRONG EXIT AND BLEW MY CHANCE CAUSE OF GETTING SCENT SO CLOSE...

Thanks Dan. That was the type of response I was hoping for.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

And this is where /how I use my trailcams. I cannot observe what is going on...just 2 thick. BUT buck or bucks are staging and exiting the bed in at least 3 different spots. So I hunt from the outside in. Less obtrusive first and then I will dive in after a couple of hunts. I could probably cover 2 exits with sight...but not all of them. 2 of the 3 exits have 3-4' scrapes and rubs. The good news is...IF a buck is using that bed and IF the buck exits one of those ways, I have a 33% chance right? And if he not? I have 3 other locations that he or one of his friends might be at. Its why I will be using 20-25 trailcams this season. I cast a pretty big net and then start repositioning trail cams to narrow down movements.

Hoping by the time the season comes...I have the bed exit picked on the highest odds. My goal is to be as close to the money as I can on my first few sits. I also do not hunt much during November. So certain areas are all out in Sept. Other areas, all out in first of Oct. Another farm, all out the last week of Oct. If I burn the area out in a week, don't care.

One of the things I really try to get better at is learning how to read the sign...without having years of knowledge on a place. Basically, its how I hunt the midwest a lot of years. I don't the luxury of sitting back and observing. I have to read a map, read the sign and try to make it happen. Approach has worked out well as I am normally hunting the rut AND I am only there for couple weeks. I observe when I hunt and make moves accordingly. If I see something happen once or 2x, I get down and move right away.

In the end, what I am kind of picking up, we all use different terms, even different methods but many of us are kind of going about everything the same way. The majority of you guys are not relying on woodsmanship skills to get on deer. Flat out hard work and boot leather.

I would have a hard time not spooking and shutting down deer movement if I put trail cameras close enough to monitor beds...

Yes. Its aggressive. But being so thick, I really either rely on spot checking tracks or trail cams. And I try to keep them in staging areas / runs coming off the beds...beds are typically within 150 yds. Many of the "staging" areas can also be apple trees that are close to beds. So you have a food source bucks are typically do not show any signs of spooking, meaning they return on a regular basis. It also means checking my cams before rain or during the rain.

This is brandnew area that I am hunting this season. I really am just trying to figure out what I have for bucks around that will be worth hunting. It might even damage my chances for this season. But its a risk I am willing to take. My first cam pulls told me that mature bucks use the area early season. So all of the buck sign is not just left from pre rut.

[dan]

SOME SPOTS ITS EASY TO JUST GO IN AND THROW A STAND AT, BUT SOME HAVE MULTIPLE EXITS AND IF I JUST JUMP IN AND THE BUCKS THERE I MIGHT BE SITTING ON THE WRONG EXIT AND BLEW MY CHANCE CAUSE OF GETTING SCENT SO CLOSE...

Thanks Dan. That was the type of response I was hoping for.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

And this is where /how I use my trailcams. I cannot observe what is going on...just 2 thick. BUT buck or bucks are staging and exiting the bed in at least 3 different spots. So I hunt from the outside in. Less obtrusive first and then I will dive in after a couple of hunts. I could probably cover 2 exits with sight...but not all of them. 2 of the 3 exits have 3-4' scrapes and rubs. The good news is...IF a buck is using that bed and IF the buck exits one of those ways, I have a 33% chance right? And if he not? I have 3 other locations that he or one of his friends might be at. Its why I will be using 20-25 trailcams this season. I cast a pretty big net and then start repositioning trail cams to narrow down movements.

Hoping by the time the season comes...I have the bed exit picked on the highest odds. My goal is to be as close to the money as I can on my first few sits. I also do not hunt much during November. So certain areas are all out in Sept. Other areas, all out in first of Oct. Another farm, all out the last week of Oct. If I burn the area out in a week, don't care.

One of the things I really try to get better at is learning how to read the sign...without having years of knowledge on a place. Basically, its how I hunt the midwest a lot of years. I don't the luxury of sitting back and observing. I have to read a map, read the sign and try to make it happen. Approach has worked out well as I am normally hunting the rut AND I am only there for couple weeks. I observe when I hunt and make moves accordingly. If I see something happen once or 2x, I get down and move right away.

In the end, what I am kind of picking up, we all use different terms, even different methods but many of us are kind of going about everything the same way. The majority of you guys are not relying on woodsmanship skills to get on deer. Flat out hard work and boot leather.

I would have a hard time not spooking and shutting down deer movement if I put trail cameras close enough to monitor beds...

Would you have known about the bear bait buck with out a trail camera? Just knowing that buck lives is fun to know.

Good point... But, I still think putting cameras right at bed exits would have negative impacts unless they were left for a long time without checking or they emailed pic's.

[DaveT1963]

as far as spooking deer that is very specific as well. Deer can absolutely get used to human intrusion. Usually it is when something out of the ordinary happens that makes them get alert and reclusive. In Montana, I use to help a farmer in winter feed his cows. There was one buck that learned he put out alfalfa cubes around 8:00AM every morning. That buck would wait until about 8:15AM and would walk right in and eat the cubes before the cows showed up. I saw him do this for days on end. That farmer took no precautions to keep his scent down and yet that buck, which was at least a 4 1/2 year old, had no problem coming in and during daylight. Deer are more tolerant and adaptive then what we think. I have seen bucks use the same mineral lick on the same day I put out fresh minerals and each day I checked my camera - pictures don't lie. He obviously knew I was there but became more and more acclimated to my presence.

I believe it is when a buck is in an area that never has human scent present (and these are not as common in most of the US then what we like to believe) and then he hits fresh human scent that they tend to react more negatively. Now that I run a lot of cameras I can tell you that a lot of the areas I thought were "undisturbed" had human visitors far more then I ever realized - through out the year. But then again I live in a state with small parcels of public land.... in Montana there was obviously places deer, elk, bear seldom if ever ran across human scent. Every situation is different.

[JoeRE]

You guys are touching on some of the biggest challenges of trail camera use. First the obvious one - the intrusion. How much intrusion, if any, a buck will take depends on so many things you have to look case by case. Some take a lot, others seem to take little to none. Secondly, one that gets talked about less, is what I would call the "day late" issue. For instance you check the cam and have a buck coming through several times last week but not in the last few days. You are a day late. This seems to happen a lot - yes sometimes due to the intrusion. I think for every case where a hunter used a trail camera to help bag a buck there are many more cases where a hunter uses his cams to be a day late all season long. Thirdly, an issue I see a lot is cameras being used to replace scouting instead of assisting scouting that has been done. A good basic understanding of an area is needed to get the most out of trail camera observations.

You can check the cam a lot more frequently, but then your intrusion goes way up. That is the big advantage to observation sits over trail cams - real time intel, you are seeing the action RIGHT NOW and in many cases with little to no intrusion. Wireless cams can can address these issues but not too many hunters are using those yet, some hunters including myself have ethical concerns about them, and they still only observe a tiny area, say 30' wide and 60 feet long, compared to an observation sit.

I am admittedly a pretty heavy trail cam user and have always justified it by saying right now I don't have time to put in the hours myself doing the observations, but go back and forth over how good cameras really are for real-time intel. I have tried to time my camera checks to coincide with known changes of deer behavior through the fall but still think I have fallen into the "day late" trap too many times resulting in basically wasted hunts. Being an efficiency freak, that bothers me

Going into this fall I am going to focus on using cams for inventory purposes and observations of annual patterns such as spikes in pre-rut and rut activity, those that I can look to hunt next year with similar conditions. On top of the usual hard core scouting sign and any real time observations I can make, I will mainly draw from what I observed in past years both in-person and from cameras. Going to try and avoid that "day late" trail camera trap.