High for population

[mainebowhunter]

So I guess part of my observation is...IS it regionally based?? or is it based on the way the state manages the deer herd? I rarely EVER see deer densities in KS or NE like I have seen in OH.

You're comparing 2 extremely different habitats. After crops are removed the amount of habitat remaining in KS and NE is nothing compared to a wooded state like Ohio. Carrying capacity is dependent on winter habitat, even in areas with mild winters. This is why Wisconsin is such a good hunting state.

I definitely agree its regional. I would also contest its cultural and a shift is finally taking place that shooting does is ok both herd health wise and man-card wise. I can tell you that the states that manage by zones I think have a way better system worked out for herd management. Unlike my state for instance that blankets everything from zone to zone. It drives me nuts when they apply the same management schemes in urban areas with 100 plus deer/sq.mi. with areas on public that have the habitat to hold more deer but still hover around 15-20 per sq. mi. I know in my state, pressure from farmers, politicians and the insurance companies dictate deer management. Not science. So its become more reactive than pro-active. Luckily for me on the state ground I manage I don't have to go through legislation to change herd management practices unlike our state F&W agency areas.
I've lived and hunted in the Adirondacks and West Virginia as well as my home state really extensively and its pretty evident the difference between the areas as far as deer density and ratios. busting your rear on snow shoes for miles on end looking for a track in Franklin County NY for a whole season and not seeing squat is a reality

It is interesting that in my state, its the same thing. I have heard guys waving the mancard around about never shooting a doe and how proud they are of that. My dad grew up and hunted in the Adirondacks. Visited upstate NY a bunch but never hunted. Beautiful area but not a lot of deer.

[mainebowhunter]

So I guess part of my observation is...IS it regionally based?? or is it based on the way the state manages the deer herd? I rarely EVER see deer densities in KS or NE like I have seen in OH.

You're comparing 2 extremely different habitats. After crops are removed the amount of habitat remaining in KS and NE is nothing compared to a wooded state like Ohio. Carrying capacity is dependent on winter habitat, even in areas with mild winters. This is why Wisconsin is such a good hunting state.

So it is regionally based. But why would that mean that states like above mentioned wouldn't have ratios that are so far off? I understand the different habitat. Do higher deer densities it means more does/small bucks, thus skewing the ratio? Because as far as I know, the management is different. You cannot shoot 5 or 6 or 10 deer a like you can in other states. Why does JoeRe have deer densities where the ratios are so much better in IOWA? Is it something that really cannot be managed?

I know in PA they really upped there doe allocations to help bring the herd under control. Now I hear guys saying that they have gone to far.

[purebowhunting]

So I guess part of my observation is...IS it regionally based?? or is it based on the way the state manages the deer herd? I rarely EVER see deer densities in KS or NE like I have seen in OH.

You're comparing 2 extremely different habitats. After crops are removed the amount of habitat remaining in KS and NE is nothing compared to a wooded state like Ohio. Carrying capacity is dependent on winter habitat, even in areas with mild winters. This is why Wisconsin is such a good hunting state.

So it is regionally based. But why would that mean that states like above mentioned wouldn't have ratios that are so far off? I understand the different habitat. Do higher deer densities it means more does/small bucks, thus skewing the ratio? Because as far as I know, the management is different. You cannot shoot 5 or 6 or 10 deer a like you can in other states. Why does JoeRe have deer densities where the ratios are so much better in IOWA? Is it something that really cannot be managed?

I know in PA they really upped there doe allocations to help bring the herd under control. Now I hear guys saying that they have gone to far.

I don't believe buck to doe ratios are skewed by much anywhere. I live in a high deer density area and have a property that during summer or early fall you'd think it's 10+ does per buck, then late October rolls around and it seems like its 1:1, the buck just come out of the woodwork. Then you here others who can't see a buck. In areas with continuous habitat does and buck inhabit different habitat much of the year, in areas with less habitat I believe they're forced to coexist outside of fall a bit more than they'd prefer. In areas like Iowa as fall progresses habitat shrinks as crops are harvested, to a much higher degree that my area of North Central WI. I think this compresses deer together and shows a better sampling or the deer ratio than areas with large habitat where they still can stay separated.

[TNstalker]

Tn is so diverse u can't go by overall numbers for the whole state. Some areas on the east end they can only kill one doe a year where as in West TN where I live we can kill 3 a day all year. I know it's not 30-1 in my area but it is to the point the mature deer don't have to move very far to find that next hot doe. So where do they go the bucks primary bed or the doe's bed or first thick safe spot.

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[JoeRE]

I would tend to agree with Purebowhunting. You have to be very careful about tying observations to buck to doe ratios...or even harvest stats to buck to doe ratios. Early season, I might see 5 or 8 does to every buck, at least before I started targeting buck bedding hard core. During the rut I routinely see at least as many bucks as does. Then comes late season and I routinely see 10-15 does for every buck when setting over food sources. Through the fall and winter deer get more and more visible while at the same time there gets to be less and less of them due to hunting, road kills, predation etc. The buck to doe ratio is no where near that though, its just that bucks been pressured that much more and are sticking to cover. My early guesses at the buck to doe ratios around here tried to account for that. Ask me 10 years ago what I thought they were and I would be in the 10:1 crowd - and was way off I think in hindsight.

I also find far more dead does than bucks, but I think that is skewed too because I suspect some hunters don't try as hard to recover a doe as they would a buck, there are more old does that die naturally than bucks, because less bucks get to that 8-10 year old mark, and finally buck carcasses don't keep their heads long most places so unless you see a skull or the carcass is fresh enough to see sex you don't really know what it is.


This discusses the buck to doe ratio and how bad they can possibly get https://www.qdma.com/articles/the-reality-of-doebuck-ratios Pre-season, you can't have a ratio much worse than 5:1. Yea you can have a lot worse than that by post season but every year it corrects itself to a certain extent. I am not saying its groovy everywhere, but I don't think most hunters realize how bad a 5:1 ratio really looks in the field. It looks a whole lot worse than 2:1...I think if you have anything below 2:1, that is as good as it gets in wild free range conditions.

[Bonecrusher101]

I also hunt west tn, and about the deer ratio, I have no solid evidence. I don't run cameras and I mainly hunt public. I have found Rattling here is very counter productive from what I've seen. It sends bucks heading for the hills. Maybe I have only been rattling around younger bucks, but it has never worked. I have used a buck grunt with success on 2 seperate occasions. Once was mid November in 2010. I was just getting back into hunting and was trying public land for the first season. I bow hunted a spot and saw no deer so I moved across a ridge through a tough crossing steep ravine. I saw a doe that evening and went back out there a week or so later. I had put a little tinks out in front of me to help conceal my scent. That morning not long after set up, I had does cruise up a ridge and were all around me and close. It was pretty thick but was also open in a few spots to where I could see or shoot 100 yards. I had my ml and caught glimpse of a nice buck. The deer were about to move off and I no longer saw the does. I couldn't make out the buck and he disappeared. I tried a buck grunt in the bucks direction. Few moments later I hit it again and harder. Everything was silent. Then the woods exploded and a very big dark colored buck with chocolate brown colored antlers charged towards me. It wasn't the smaller light colored buck I first saw. The wind was out of the south that morning and that's the direction the brute came from. He never stopped running. Once he got 60 yards behind me he spun on a dime in a tight circle several times. He charged to the base of my tree and hit the brakes. I had a scope full of brown and shot. I missed. He ran behind me again momentarily stopped looked around and took off. Never saw him again but I see him in my memory. A month or so later I went back to that same tree dragged a tinks rag and had a buck follow me in. I killed him, turned out to be a nice 2.5 yr old big 6 point. This was the lighter colored buck I had seen a month earlier. His nose was broken and had scars all over his face. No broken antlers though, I imagined he got his but kicked by that big dark chocolate tined buck. My ml broke his opposite shoulder and he managed to run 200 yards before I found him from a blood trail. He was a tough guy and I was proud to take him.

The other one was a beast style kill even though I didn't know what beast was. I had set my climber in a cut over early November 2013 during the first week of ml season. First afternoon was a Friday afternoon. 20-30 mph winds in the 30s. I loved it, and even though I saw nothing felt I was in a good spot. I planned to leave my climber over night and sleep in my truck wake up and try it again in the morning. I waited till dark then was adjusting my safety harness strap so I wouldn't have to do it in the am. I heard footsteps below me in a ravine I was looking into. It was a lone deer and heavy. I slipped out and back to the truck for a long night of tossing and turning about the upcoming morning. That morning was calm and cold and crunchy. I was a little mad at myself because it was well into gray light and I no longer needed my head lamp. I quietly went up the tree and was just settling in. I felt the wind picking up immediately. I decided if I was going to do some talking now was the time. I hit a set of buck grunts and heard nothing. I tried another set of buck grunts nothing... I took the call apart and put it on doe bleat. I tried one or two of those then I heard that deer jump up and come strait to me. He was only bedded 100 yards away or so. I saw antlers at 50 yards he had a frame so I busted him. When he rolled over I could tell I got him. He also turned out to be a 6 point. He was a younger buck but I'm proud of him. It was a great kill on public land and I was only up in the tree for 10 minutes or so.

I don't carry antlers with me but I always have my buck grunt and doe bleat ready. In certain circumstances calling works great. Even though it worked that one morning in 2013, blind calling usually doesn't work well. I would think it would alert mature bucks.

I also absolutely see many more does during bow season and rarely see the larger bucks till late October. Out glassing bean fields late summer the numbers might look absurd like 15:1 does vs bucks here but once the season gets going it all evens out I think. I've always looked at bow season as a way to get meat in the freezer. I still can't remember seeing many 2.5 year old bucks or better during bow season. I'm hoping as I progress into beast mode I will see more bucks in the heat.

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[BassBoysLLP]

RE buck:doe ratios, I find the WI state estimates reasonably accurate based on trail camera surveys.

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