Water thermals
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Water thermals
I have some questions about thermals coming off water like small ponds or swamps.
I understand you should get a sea breeze type affect from standing water but which way does it work? Warmer water blows toward the land or am I reading this backwards?
Also if the prevailing wind doesn't over power the thermal can you get a swirl based on the two coliding? Or does the thermal go up with evaporation?
Thanks
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I understand you should get a sea breeze type affect from standing water but which way does it work? Warmer water blows toward the land or am I reading this backwards?
Also if the prevailing wind doesn't over power the thermal can you get a swirl based on the two coliding? Or does the thermal go up with evaporation?
Thanks
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- PK_
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Re: Water thermals
Where you are hunting, generally they pull thermals at prime time and through the night, meaning air is being pulled from land to water and then rises as it warms. That is the most important thing to remember. However if you have very hot weather and then get a cold snap that water will be warmer than the air for a few days and may pull thermals all day long.
Keep in mind swamps that are shaded and bodies of water that get full sun will be two completely different monsters to deal with.
Yes without a stiff steady wind or in thick cover the wind will swirl and shift. Hunt high and take advantage of sunny days with strong rising thermals.
Spend some time monitoring the swamps you hunt under different circumstances with milkweed or some type of wind floaters. Lots of variables on this topic.
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Keep in mind swamps that are shaded and bodies of water that get full sun will be two completely different monsters to deal with.
Yes without a stiff steady wind or in thick cover the wind will swirl and shift. Hunt high and take advantage of sunny days with strong rising thermals.
Spend some time monitoring the swamps you hunt under different circumstances with milkweed or some type of wind floaters. Lots of variables on this topic.
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Rich M wrote:Typically, hunting FL has been like getting a root canal
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Re: Water thermals
Thanks PK. So basically the warmer terrain pulls the air towards it. Obviously there could be other factors but that's basically the idea? Then the water factor pushes thermals up like with evaporation?
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- PK_
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Re: Water thermals
I am not as well versed in this as some on here. But basically when the air temp drops lower than the water temp, the water will begin to pull the air towards it. As the air moves across the surface of the water it warms up slightly, making it rise up above the surrounding cooler air, it isn't evaporation as the sun is not usually up when this happens… I believe the temp of the ground has something to do with the thermal activity as well.
I probably did not explain it exactly right. But basically, under normal circumstances where you have overnight lows and daytime highs in temperature, the water will be 'pulling' air just before sunrise and just after sunset. Generally with the breeze we get during the day, I have never noticed a significant thermal activity from the water during the day. I believe the wind and rising thermals are what you predominantly need to worry about when the sun is up.
These are some great threads on the subject if you haven't seen them:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30749&hilit=pond
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25038&hilit=swamp+thermals
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9257&hilit=swamp+thermals
I probably did not explain it exactly right. But basically, under normal circumstances where you have overnight lows and daytime highs in temperature, the water will be 'pulling' air just before sunrise and just after sunset. Generally with the breeze we get during the day, I have never noticed a significant thermal activity from the water during the day. I believe the wind and rising thermals are what you predominantly need to worry about when the sun is up.
These are some great threads on the subject if you haven't seen them:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30749&hilit=pond
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25038&hilit=swamp+thermals
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9257&hilit=swamp+thermals
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Rich M wrote:Typically, hunting FL has been like getting a root canal
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Re: Water thermals
Thanks PK
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- Hawthorne
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Re: Water thermals
I jumped a buck on the edge of about a half acre pond in the middle of a thick tamarack ,cattail,and red brush swanp.What surprised me is he was bedding on the downwind side of the pond. I thought they would bed on the up wind side. Is this the norm? This was right after gun season on some high pressured public in the middle of the day. There were beds and rubs on the east side and west side of the pond.
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Re: Water thermals
Hawthorne wrote:I jumped a buck on the edge of about a half acre pond in the middle of a thick tamarack ,cattail,and red brush swanp.What surprised me is he was bedding on the downwind side of the pond. I thought they would bed on the up wind side. Is this the norm? This was right after gun season on some high pressured public in the middle of the day. There were beds and rubs on the east side and west side of the pond.
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I'm new to locating bedding but that seems odd from what I've read unless maybe it was open and he could use sight down wind of him or maybe the wind switched midday and he didn't relocate?
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Re: Water thermals
Here is a very informative topic as wellhttp://www.thehuntingbeast.com/view ... re+breezes
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Re: Water thermals
Hawthorne wrote:I jumped a buck on the edge of about a half acre pond in the middle of a thick tamarack ,cattail,and red brush swanp.What surprised me is he was bedding on the downwind side of the pond. I thought they would bed on the up wind side. Is this the norm? This was right after gun season on some high pressured public in the middle of the day. There were beds and rubs on the east side and west side of the pond.
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I see this quite a bit here in Michigan. This goes against the grain of what the videos teach, but it is exactly what is happening. I have also become aware that the down wind side of the water has a thermal tunnel for the first few hours and the last few hours of daylight, because the on shore off shore breezes are in affect.
Both of the bucks I killed this year had the body of water on their upwind side, while they were bedded facing downwind. Another place I hunt the mature bucks bed with the highway 40 yards behind them to the north east while they are facing the SW wind. Human pressure is from the SW.
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Re: Water thermals
dirt nap giver wrote:Hawthorne wrote:I jumped a buck on the edge of about a half acre pond in the middle of a thick tamarack ,cattail,and red brush swanp.What surprised me is he was bedding on the downwind side of the pond. I thought they would bed on the up wind side. Is this the norm? This was right after gun season on some high pressured public in the middle of the day. There were beds and rubs on the east side and west side of the pond.
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I see this quite a bit here in Michigan. This goes against the grain of what the videos teach, but it is exactly what is happening. I have also become aware that the down wind side of the water has a thermal tunnel for the first few hours and the last few hours of daylight, because the on shore off shore breezes are in affect.
Both of the bucks I killed this year had the body of water on their upwind side, while they were bedded facing downwind. Another place I hunt the mature bucks bed with the highway 40 yards behind them to the north east while they are facing the SW wind. Human pressure is from the SW.
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Interesting discussion... My 1st thought was that the buck could be bedding there for the thermal pull towards to water. But not sure. Dirt nap has an interesting take on it... I will have to watch for that... One thing is for sure, big bucks don't bed random. If you find a spot where a big buck(s) beds frequently, there is a reason...
I remember tracking a big buck to a bed once that was real well worn in the north woods. It had me puzzled cause it looked like you could get at it from a few different directions and was placed poorly... But, when I tried setting up on it no matter where I sat as soon as the wind calmed a little milkweed would pull straight to that bed. Can't fully explain it, most likely due to the terrain breaks, but the point is, the bed was there cause he could smell from every direction.
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Re: Water thermals
dan wrote:dirt nap giver wrote:Hawthorne wrote:I jumped a buck on the edge of about a half acre pond in the middle of a thick tamarack ,cattail,and red brush swanp.What surprised me is he was bedding on the downwind side of the pond. I thought they would bed on the up wind side. Is this the norm? This was right after gun season on some high pressured public in the middle of the day. There were beds and rubs on the east side and west side of the pond.
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I see this quite a bit here in Michigan. This goes against the grain of what the videos teach, but it is exactly what is happening. I have also become aware that the down wind side of the water has a thermal tunnel for the first few hours and the last few hours of daylight, because the on shore off shore breezes are in affect.
Both of the bucks I killed this year had the body of water on their upwind side, while they were bedded facing downwind. Another place I hunt the mature bucks bed with the highway 40 yards behind them to the north east while they are facing the SW wind. Human pressure is from the SW.
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Interesting discussion... My 1st thought was that the buck could be bedding there for the thermal pull towards to water. But not sure. Dirt nap has an interesting take on it... I will have to watch for that... One thing is for sure, big bucks don't bed random. If you find a spot where a big buck(s) beds frequently, there is a reason...
I remember tracking a big buck to a bed once that was real well worn in the north woods. It had me puzzled cause it looked like you could get at it from a few different directions and was placed poorly... But, when I tried setting up on it no matter where I sat as soon as the wind calmed a little milkweed would pull straight to that bed. Can't fully explain it, most likely due to the terrain breaks, but the point is, the bed was there cause he could smell from every direction.
I wonder how many times this is happening and hunters don't even know it. Interesting
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Re: Water thermals
I had an instance this late November where I wanted to try to cut a buck off going to its bed in the morning. I got in about 2 hours before sunrise and it was a dry bed in the marsh and I was set up on the marsh edge and it was in the 30's but the water temp was way warmer. I had a light north wind and thought it would push my scent out into the water but when I got set up I started dropping milk weed and the thermal were pushing away from the water out of the south and right toward the travel direction of where I thought I would get activity and basically screwed my whole hunt. When I got out of the woods at about 9 am I walked about 100 to 150 yards to the north I had a north push once again but I hit like a little mixing zone where the thermal activity and light wind were variable. At that point I figured I would have to set up there with cooler water temps than the ambient air in order for it to work. Just another site specific variable that made that bed work for the buck and not me.
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Re: Water thermals
dan wrote:dirt nap giver wrote:Hawthorne wrote:I jumped a buck on the edge of about a half acre pond in the middle of a thick tamarack ,cattail,and red brush swanp.What surprised me is he was bedding on the downwind side of the pond. I thought they would bed on the up wind side. Is this the norm? This was right after gun season on some high pressured public in the middle of the day. There were beds and rubs on the east side and west side of the pond.
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I see this quite a bit here in Michigan. This goes against the grain of what the videos teach, but it is exactly what is happening. I have also become aware that the down wind side of the water has a thermal tunnel for the first few hours and the last few hours of daylight, because the on shore off shore breezes are in affect.
Both of the bucks I killed this year had the body of water on their upwind side, while they were bedded facing downwind. Another place I hunt the mature bucks bed with the highway 40 yards behind them to the north east while they are facing the SW wind. Human pressure is from the SW.
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Interesting discussion... My 1st thought was that the buck could be bedding there for the thermal pull towards to water. But not sure. Dirt nap has an interesting take on it... I will have to watch for that... One thing is for sure, big bucks don't bed random. If you find a spot where a big buck(s) beds frequently, there is a reason...
I remember tracking a big buck to a bed once that was real well worn in the north woods. It had me puzzled cause it looked like you could get at it from a few different directions and was placed poorly... But, when I tried setting up on it no matter where I sat as soon as the wind calmed a little milkweed would pull straight to that bed. Can't fully explain it, most likely due to the terrain breaks, but the point is, the bed was there cause he could smell from every direction.
I've seen this a few times, the beds are positioned to catch lake and water thermals in the evening. Most likely they don't get harassed all that much in the swamp (aside from us beast hunters) and they feel pretty safe in there. The are setup to catch as much of the thermal before they move in the evening, they are use to being hunted and want to smell as much of the area as possible. The other reason to bed there might be swirling winds, it just seems the best areas I hunt have some kind of swirl in there. Before I joined this site I never realized how a simple tree line or transition can shape that wind, its kind of amazing. They aren't easy to figure out either because different speed winds will cause the wind to do different things. I do suspect with the swirling wind they can't quite pin down your exact location but they know danger is in the area.
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