"Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

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robert richer
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"Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby robert richer » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:47 am

Well had a interesting if not frustrating weekend, saw 5 does and a total of 7 bucks!

Friday evening 1 really nice 10 pointer 130 / 140 class buck out about 60 to 70 yards with his nose to ground, wouldnt come in. Right before dark 2 does fed in cut corn never came close enough...

Saturday morning, had another buck 8 pointer too small though underneath my stand....followed by a small fork-horn. 2 coyotes clear across the field. Once again 2 other does about 50 yards out, didnt give me a confidet shot....Saturday evening too windy saw nothin!!!

Sunday morning,...whew what an experience....like the gates opened up! Right about 8:10 a.m. in the morning a 9 pointer(140 class) was trailin a fairly good size doe out about 70 yards and headin into the wood, couldnt call him in closer because he wanted to stay with doe. Well once he entered into the woods he moved a 13 pointer (160 class) buck from his bed. The buck started to head along the field edge towards me, made a scrap, made several rubs against a tree and finally pee'd in the scrap! He (13 pointer) made his way out of the hedge / wood edge and started to angle towards me at about 45 yards. As he was coming towards me another 9 pointer was right underneath my stand lookin at him. I could see the freakin frost on his head and body, while he was watchin the 13 pointer,the 13 pointer was starin into the woods at another 8 pointer that was walkin up between the two. Mind you all these are completely different bucks, none of which I havent seen in trail cameras or previous days. Well the 13 pointer reversed his direction and stepped towards the woods, I drew on him thinkin he was about 40 / 45 yrds and felt confident with this particular shot. Heck, facing away at 40/45 yrds i practice this on my target almost all the time.....right? Well when i drew the 8 pointer caught my movement and snorted causing the 9 pointer to exit underneath my stand out across the field and the 8 pointer reversed and headed back into the woods. This is all hapeening within minutes if not seconds.....the 13 pointer stood still momentarily enough for me to release the arrow. I was confident it was a good arrow placement, although the deer didnt react like it was hit.It jumped alittle bit and entered inot the woods with his tail tighly against his but, I saw my arrow hit and saw where the arrow was in the ground, slam dunk....right?, nope. Ok once I settled my nerves and gain composer and tried to figure out what just has happened, another buck, a 8 pointer was moving from right to my left at which point I turned to watch. As I turned to view this deer, lookin over my left shoulder who was standin there watchin this whole debactle?,,,,the freakin 13 pointer about 15 yards away..... :? I said what the "freak", as I turned with my bow to get a shot at the 13 pointer knowin it was the same deer, my lower cam got tangled up with my grunt tube string and I couldnt make the full twist.....never got a second shot off....

Now comes the frustration....I went to my arrow about 45 minutes and found it had a very small speckle of blood on the vane and little or no trace of deer on the shaft or blades. I follwed his tracks all the way around to where he stood watchin me (took me about an hour hoping to find blood) but nothin...not even a drop.......I spent almost 2/3 hours and probably put on 5 miles hoping to find some sort of sign that the deer was either gut shot or whatever.....I waited almost 2 hours before actually putting on this search hoping not to jump deer....nothin.

Here is where I need input from all of you.... :( I read an article in Deer and Deer magazine (2009) about the "dead space" above the lungs and below the spine......could of I have found this "space" in this particular scenario? I saw the arrow go into the deer right behind the shoulder and a little far back and somewhat high, I know I did. I cant sleep or eat thinkin about this.....I need intervention asap! :cry:

Let me know your thoughts...pleeze.


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Sam Ubl
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby Sam Ubl » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:06 am

Hit an 8 point maybe 8 years ago in the same way... Ended up getting him on trail camera later that week with the wound visible by roughed up hair. I was hunting on a buddies land - his inlaw ended up harvesting him during the gun season. . .

That story had me on the edge of my seat! Hope something positive comes out of this for you bud.
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby headgear » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:57 am

robert richer wrote:Now comes the frustration....I went to my arrow about 45 minutes and found it had a very small speckle of blood on the vane and little or no trace of deer on the shaft or blades.


I think your arrow might be the key to this whole thing. Your eyes can deceive you, my guess is you skimmed one off his back.

I'm kind of sceptical about the dead zone, I think most of the time the dead zone shots are high and a little forward over the spine or possibly high into one lung.
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby Wrinkleneck » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:00 am

Keep after it maybe you will get anouther chance at him!!
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby muddy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:13 am

I'm in the middle of a feeding/diaperchange so can't elaborate much. I don't believe in a dead space. Looking at a photo of a deers anatomy shows e that you either get into chest, albeit very high or you're in the spine. You can hit too high for a lethal spine hit, there are !our 3 inches or more of "fins" on top od the vertebre where the back straps reside. Nothing lethal about that place.

Bummer for sure keep after em, best time coming up!
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby Hodag Hunter » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:26 am

Bout the only place you can hit them below the spine and above the lungs is forward of the front leg where the spine dips down and the front lobe of the lung extends out to the brisket.

Behind the front shoulder the lungs fill the deers cavity right to the spine......no way possible to hit above the lungs but below the spine behind the shoulder or leg of a whitetail.

Can hit above the spine, like Muddy mentioned, where all you get is the back loin or as some say the "chops".
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby Sam Ubl » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:40 am

Believe it or not... It's still an existing reality of the deers anatomy. :?
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby muddy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:12 am

I don't see what you're seeing. Behind the shoulder blades the spine dips down and the lungs go all the way to the spine behind the blades. Granted I'm on m phone, that pic is 2 inchs x 2 inches.

If you have time save that pic an open it in photoshop and put a dot where you're talking about. Not arguing, just honestly curious.
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby muddy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:18 am

OK, on computer. If you asked me that trail cam pic the arrow is above the spine and in the backstraps. In the anatomy pic the lungs and guts press right up to the spine, especially the lungs as they're pressurized in the chest cavity. A fraction of a centimeter and that trail cam deer is dead.
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby Hodag Hunter » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:40 am

Existing reality.... can a deer be hit in the back loin above the spine and live....sure.

Is this the dead space you talk of?

Can a deer be hit below the spine, behind the front shoulder and live?.....Well I guess it could, as most anything is possible with whitetails, but it would have (2) holes in it's lungs. It may live for a while....hours or days, but I doubt make it thru the winter with two holes in the lungs.

Back to the original post....sorry to hear about the hit Robert. Sounded like a great night to be in the woods. Good luck the rest of the season.
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby NatureBoy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:09 am

Wow! That's a major disappointment. Sorry to hear about it. If I remember correctly the article that you're referring to in D&DH was called THE DEAD-SPACE DEBACLE and I believed the biologist was arguing against the dead-space's existence. He said something like what headgear said, that in most cases, the hunters eyes just deceive them.
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby Sam Ubl » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:19 am

Robert, you'll have to dig out that pic you posted on the BBO site last year of the big buck with the no-mans land arrow... Dan helped you post it I think.


I'll try posting it below.
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby ryanm » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:40 am

did the arrow give any clue to penetration? it doesn't sound like it went through the deer. Was it knocked out by brush after he took off or stuck in the ground?
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby muddy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:41 am

I would still say that both of those pictures the arrow is above the spine and in the backstrap. Big buck pic the camera looks to be leaning slightly and the buck is quartering to giving the deception of the arrow angling down more than it actually is. I'd say the broadhead his the top of the ribs and skipped along them. Bottom pic by the feeder the arrow seems to be angling up slightly, probably shot out of a blind near the feeder.

You may not be buying what I'm selling, but hey, it's what I think is the case! 8-)
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Re: "Dead-space" unfortunate hunt!

Unread postby muddy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:47 am

I'd also add that the big buck also seems to be walking downhill also giving that arrow the look of angling in better.
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