Are faster bows wounding more deer?

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Darin
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Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby Darin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:03 pm

Interesting article by QDMA about momentum vs. speed. Although there are many factors involved in wounding deer or game, there is some very good points made here.

http://www.qdma.com/articles/momentum-b ... arrow-hits

A huge factor in wounding deer that I have seen discussed is novice hunters attempting long shots because that's what is seen on a lot of tv shows. That and I think a lot of hunters are so caught up in the constantly growing market of new broadheads, "fast" bows, etc...

What are your thoughts about speed vs momentum? Arrow weight?


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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:03 pm

I don't have time to read the article right now, but I have to say yes and X2 on your thoughts as well. Just because an arrow has the power to kill at long range and the bow/archer is capable of the accuracy at long range doesn't mean that in a hunting situation you should take that shot and a lot of people today don't seem to understand that.

Darin wrote:Interesting article by QDMA about momentum vs. speed. Although there are many factors involved in wounding deer or game, there is some very good points made here.

http://www.qdma.com/articles/momentum-b ... arrow-hits

A huge factor in wounding deer that I have seen discussed is novice hunters attempting long shots because that's what is seen on a lot of tv shows. That and I think a lot of hunters are so caught up in the constantly growing market of new broadheads, "fast" bows, etc...

What are your thoughts about speed vs momentum? Arrow weight?
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby JoeRE » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:51 pm

Good article - although I think 6 grains per inch (gpi) is still a very light arrow for a 70 lb draw weight. Kudos to the author for focusing on momentum and not sermonizing about completely irrelevant kinetic energy (KE) though!

I think it is more accurate to say "uneducated bowhhunters are wounding more deer" because I don't think speed by itself is the only culprit. Shooting a low forward of center (FOC), light arrow with a mechanical BH (and possibly poorly tuned, thats why they are not shooting fixed blade heads) wounds tons of deer every year.

Far to little discussion occurs about arrow penetration IMO. Too little penetration should be a rare problem with a smart setup.
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby Brad » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:33 am

I didn't read the article yet but has anyone noticed the arrows not passing through on hunting shows lately? In my opinion if your pulling 50 lbs or more and don't hit bone, there is zero reason your arrow shouldn't pass through. I believe a lot of hunters are only concerned about speed and pin gaps and shoot The lightest arrow possible and then often times tipping it with mechanical heads
I have no clue what my hunting arrows weigh but they are 11 grains an inch or so plus my 100 grain slick trick, when I hit a deer you can hear the train hit! I'm still shooting pretty fast in my opinion, but I know when the arrow gets there it has power to spare.

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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby jonsimoneau » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:05 am

Guys I have not shot a compound bow in years but I too am surprised by the lack of passthroughs I see on TV. I hunt with a recurve in the 50 pound range and very rarely do I not get a complete passthrough on whitetails. I normally hunt with a 500 grain arrow. Whitetail legend Roger Rotthhaar has been knocking down some giant bucks the last few years while shooting a 42 pound recurve with a heavy arrow.

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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby Sweet Shot 7 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:30 am

I shoot mechanical broad heads at 62 pounds and I have no problem with pass throughs.. I blow right through deer. Im not set up for blazing speed, just accuracy. That is important.
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby trdtnlbwhntr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:37 am

To much focus has been put on the IBO rating of bows these days. I can not stress this enough when talking to people getting into bowhunting, shoot a solid arrow with a fixed blade head. Anything mechanical can and will eventually fail.

Unfortunately that is often times not romantic enough to make the tv celebs talking points on these hunting shows.
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby Bowhunting Brian » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:37 am

fast bows may have a flatter trajectory, but that doesn't make up for accuracy. people are so caught up with the speed thing, but really speed is overrated. most bow shots are less than 20 yards, so for fun, a guy could put a target at 25 yards or even 30 yards and shoot and record where the impact is. take a half turn out of the limb bolts and shoot again. then take another half turn (now we are at one full turn which can be 3 to 4 lbs now) and shoot again. the drop is very little. shooting high poundage and speed isn't really necessary. it is a choice, but if people would play around with their equipment, they would see there is not a whole lot of difference shooting less weight and a little slower arrow. I agree with was I said above about FOC. when buying arrows, I don't recommend just cutting them and slapping inserts in and calling it good. I think it's a good idea to go on the web and play with the FOC calculator. build the arrow for 12% to 15!% and your good. you may have to add weight to the front or back by purchasing other arrow accessories, but it is worth it.
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby Stanley » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:59 am

Another thing to take into consideration is the size of the animal. It takes a lot more grunt to put an arrow through a 220 lb buck than it does a 100 lb doe. If you center punch a rib on both sides of a 220 lb buck you may not get a complete pass through. Now if you slip between ribs both sides instant pass through. The bigger broadheads tend to catch more ribs. :think:

I also think some people do forget a bow and arrow is a close range weapon. The closer the better.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby JoeRE » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:24 am

Bowhunting Brian wrote: when buying arrows, I don't recommend just cutting them and slapping inserts in and calling it good. I think it's a good idea to go on the web and play with the FOC calculator. build the arrow for 12% to 15!% and your good. you may have to add weight to the front or back by purchasing other arrow accessories, but it is worth it.


Great advice. My hunting arrow has 16.1% FOC and the penetration is much improved. Its easier to tune, less prone to deflections off bone, and is less effected by crosswind as well. Just keep in mind if you start stacking a lot of weight on the end of an arrow you need a stiffer arrow.

Those who want to dig into arrow penetration mechanics take a look at Dr. Ed. Ashby's work. http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

Stanley wrote:Another thing to take into consideration is the size of the animal. It takes a lot more grunt to put an arrow through a 220 lb buck than it does a 100 lb doe. If you center punch a rib on both sides of a 220 lb buck you may not get a complete pass through. Now if you slip between ribs both sides instant pass through. The bigger broadheads tend to catch more ribs. :think:

I also think some people do forget a bow and arrow is a close range weapon. The closer the better.


Definitely!
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby bowmike » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:27 am

http://goldtip.com/calculators.aspx

I am a goldtip fan but this calculator can really help you get you FOC and your weights. You doo not have to shoot goldtip to fill in the variables on their calculator. Not posting this link to try and get people to buy goldtip or any of that garbage, but to show you how to come up with you FOC and balancing your arrow and such.
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby goldtip5575 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:54 am

Switched from goldtip XT Hunters(8.2GRAINS) to Goldtip Kinetic XT(9.5 GRAINS) because it was suggested to be over 400 total gr for elk.Shooting a Mathews heli with a 60 lb draw 27.5 inch draw length there was some but not much drop at 20 yards.But at 40 yards if I remember correctly the Kinetics shot 5 or 6 inches lower.So price can become a factor.
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby bowslinger » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:07 am

will seeing how i sell bows at my job i always ask what would u rather get hit by a vw rabbit going 30 miles a hour or a vw bus going 20 miles a hour
im a firm believer in kinetic energy over speed thats my 2 cents
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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby keb » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:47 pm

This past year, I shot all the way thru a big bodied buck, with a 40 lb recurve and 500 grain cedar shaft, it was a11/32 shaft which compared to a carbon shaft is a small tree branch. For whitetails in the brush, 20 yard game, you don't need a fast bow.

All you need is a tuned arrow with a sharp broadhead. I would take a tuned 200 dollar bow shooing 240, over a sloppy 800 dollar bow shooting 300fps.

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Re: Are faster bows wounding more deer?

Unread postby keb » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:52 pm

The more I got into traditional archery, the more I think the whole foc is not that big of a deal, how many animals have been taken with a cedar shaft and 125 head, allot, same for a aluminum shaft with a 125 grain muzzy or thunderhead allot.

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