What separates luck from skill?

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:22 am

To all that think luck has no part,

Tom Brady is a great QB, and engineered a great comeback in last years SB, and no doubt was prepared.

Did Tom Brady get lucky last Feb. ? While sitting on the bench Seattle threw an interception on the potential game winner in the end zone in the closing seconds, and he got his 4th SB ring. Now that corner made a heck of a play, but even he got lucky that they threw instead of ran it with BEAST mode.

Now if Seattle doesn't throw the interception and if they would have went on to win, Tom still did the same game, effort, prep, etc., just his luck would have been the opposite of good.

I think Tom was very lucky, and also very skilled last Feb., while the outcome had very little to do with his skill in those closing seconds.


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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby Ruger » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:17 am

Determination!!!! Combine it with a little luck and it could get really fun.

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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby Stanley » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:22 am

dan wrote:A skilled hunter can go to just about any property and get on good bucks... Skill in whitetail hunting would mean understanding whitetail behavior... If you understand bedding and travel of deer in all terrains, you should have no issues..

I think I am a good "skilled" hunter cause I grew up in a time when there were not very many decent bucks around and in an area where there was a lot of pressure. I had to work hard and learn a lot about my quarry. Back in those days there were not good bucks on every property, you had to go to them, and you had to single out one deer and hunt it down.... One might argue that a skilled hunter will seek out the best property, but, I don't believe you are a skilled hunter just cause of where you hunt, and in my opinion you gain more skill in hard work and effort...

Someone above said he don't think any skilled hunter seeks out hard to hunt areas... Well, I do... At least to some degree. I love killing a big buck on the same equal playing field as every one else. Nothing is more satisfying than proving to yourself that your a good hunter by going into a public crowded area and shooting the big buck everyone there has been after. And... Along that journey, I bet it forces you to learn a thing or two...

If you guys want to call me "skilled", I would say that skill comes from diverse hunting of both pressured, and private land, and across many states, terrains, and obstacles... And a can do positive attitude that don't quit, or fall into the box of hunting or thinking like everyone else.

In todays world there are two ways to kill a good buck... You can buy it, or you can work for it
.


I think this is a very good post. I doubt many think you are a slouch hunter. I always try and give credit where credit is due. Enough boosting you up, you don't need it. LOL :lol:

I have given a lot of though over the years, what you said about "You can buy it, or you can work for it". I kind of break it down into the blue collar hunter and the white collar hunter. I used to think the white collar hunters were the lesser of the two. I think most do.

If you think about it, both take sacrifice, but of different kinds. The blue collar hunter spends his time scouting and learning about what he needs to do to kill a good buck. The blue collar hunter is successful because he sacrifices time and effort to be successful. So the blue collar hunter hangs a good 10 pointer on the wall. I think that was his objective.

Now the white collar hunter spends way less time in the woods. He spends his time making money so he can lease some good ground, or go on a guided hunt, or possibly buy some premium ground, to kill a good buck. His time in the woods is way less than the blue collar hunter. So the white collar hunter is successful because he sacrifices time and effort to be successful (sound familiar?). So the white collar hunter hangs a good 10 pointer on the wall. I think that was his objective.

Sacrifice, what is it?

Both hunters live to be 80 years old. At the the white collars funeral vigil the grand kids talked of all the good times they had with Grandpa at Christmas & Thanksgiving. At the Blue collars funeral vigil the grand kids talked about all the good times they had with Grandma, Grandpa was out scouting or hunting. :think:

I unfortunately I fall into the Blue collar hunter. I missed way too many Thanksgiving dinners because I was out hunting. I killed a nice buck on Thanksgiving day 2012 :roll: Skill or luck? Sacrifice, hard work, dedication is what it takes to be successful.

Great topic for discussion.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby stash59 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:49 am

Good stuff all. I guess my point is: Luck is involved more on a day to day basis. All you highly successful guys go on each hunt wiyh the attitude your gonna kill a mature buck today. Because of your skill your able to put the odds more in your favor than the average guy. But you also don't kill one every time out. That's where the luck comes in when all the "cards" fall right you get your buck.

Now lok at it on a season to season basis. The more dedicated skilled guys are the ones killing a mature deer almost every season or bevery season.

I'm with Dan being able to take an animal anybody has a chance at. One on public. Is more satisfying to me. But if I could afford my own ground and worked hard at doing the right habitat and management improvements that would be very satisfying also.

It's kind of asking if you like blondes or brunnettes. I've seen some very beautiful women in both catagories. So it's hard to pick.
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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby bucksnbows » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:39 am

In poker....
It is 90% luck and 10% skill in any given game.
Over the course of a year it's 90% skill and 10% luck.
I think that is pretty accurate way to look at skill vs luck in hunting.

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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby iowa whitetail » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:31 am

You practice shooting your bow so you don't miss, you spend years getting to know a certain buck inside and out scouting pics what have you. You pick the right day time and place to get him. what part of that is luck?

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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby Stanley » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:51 am

iowa whitetail wrote:You practice shooting your bow so you don't miss, you spend years getting to know a certain buck inside and out scouting pics what have you. You pick the right day time and place to get him. what part of that is luck?

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The part where the stray dog ran him off before you got to the stand. He escapes to the neighbors property and the neighbor kills the buck. I would say the neighbor got lucky. :think:
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby PK_ » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:15 pm

Stanley wrote:
iowa whitetail wrote:You practice shooting your bow so you don't miss, you spend years getting to know a certain buck inside and out scouting pics what have you. You pick the right day time and place to get him. what part of that is luck?

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The part where the stray dog ran him off before you got to the stand. He escapes to the neighbors property and the neighbor kills the buck. I would say the neighbor got lucky. :think:


I would say the neighbor chose a good location to hunt knowing where a big buck may go when pressured. :D
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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby stash59 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:18 pm

Stanley wrote:
iowa whitetail wrote:You practice shooting your bow so you don't miss, you spend years getting to know a certain buck inside and out scouting pics what have you. You pick the right day time and place to get him. what part of that is luck?

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The part where the stray dog ran him off before you got to the stand. He escapes to the neighbors property and the neighbor kills the buck. I would say the neighbor got lucky. :think:


Exactly. I've worked bull elk in areas against the law to use a motorized vehicle. Almost had him in range and up drives a 4-wheeler. Had deer, either antlered or antlerless figured out pretty well and had coyotes make a somewhat rare appearance at just the wrong time. I once had a lynx following some deer and mess up an oppertunity, in Wisconsin. A suppossed rare animal for the area.

Plus just like a parent doesn't really know everything about their child. Especially when they become teenagers. I do'nt care how many cameras for how many years and boots on the ground scouting one can't know everything about a mature buck. There is always going to be some unknown factors.

Now some of you some of the time are skilled enough to put yourselves in situations where the odds are approaching 90-95%, maybe more, in your favor. Darn good odds. But there is still that 5-!0% of uncontrolable factors. That can mean failure or better put a non-harvest.
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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby wmihunter » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:46 pm

Stanley wrote:
dan wrote:A skilled hunter can go to just about any property and get on good bucks... Skill in whitetail hunting would mean understanding whitetail behavior... If you understand bedding and travel of deer in all terrains, you should have no issues..

I think I am a good "skilled" hunter cause I grew up in a time when there were not very many decent bucks around and in an area where there was a lot of pressure. I had to work hard and learn a lot about my quarry. Back in those days there were not good bucks on every property, you had to go to them, and you had to single out one deer and hunt it down.... One might argue that a skilled hunter will seek out the best property, but, I don't believe you are a skilled hunter just cause of where you hunt, and in my opinion you gain more skill in hard work and effort...

Someone above said he don't think any skilled hunter seeks out hard to hunt areas... Well, I do... At least to some degree. I love killing a big buck on the same equal playing field as every one else. Nothing is more satisfying than proving to yourself that your a good hunter by going into a public crowded area and shooting the big buck everyone there has been after. And... Along that journey, I bet it forces you to learn a thing or two...

If you guys want to call me "skilled", I would say that skill comes from diverse hunting of both pressured, and private land, and across many states, terrains, and obstacles... And a can do positive attitude that don't quit, or fall into the box of hunting or thinking like everyone else.

In todays world there are two ways to kill a good buck... You can buy it, or you can work for it
.


I think this is a very good post. I doubt many think you are a slouch hunter. I always try and give credit where credit is due. Enough boosting you up, you don't need it. LOL :lol:

I have given a lot of though over the years, what you said about "You can buy it, or you can work for it". I kind of break it down into the blue collar hunter and the white collar hunter. I used to think the white collar hunters were the lesser of the two. I think most do.

If you think about it, both take sacrifice, but of different kinds. The blue collar hunter spends his time scouting and learning about what he needs to do to kill a good buck. The blue collar hunter is successful because he sacrifices time and effort to be successful. So the blue collar hunter hangs a good 10 pointer on the wall. I think that was his objective.

Now the white collar hunter spends way less time in the woods. He spends his time making money so he can lease some good ground, or go on a guided hunt, or possibly buy some premium ground, to kill a good buck. His time in the woods is way less than the blue collar hunter. So the white collar hunter is successful because he sacrifices time and effort to be successful (sound familiar?). So the white collar hunter hangs a good 10 pointer on the wall. I think that was his objective.

Sacrifice, what is it?

Both hunters live to be 80 years old. At the the white collars funeral vigil the grand kids talked of all the good times they had with Grandpa at Christmas & Thanksgiving. At the Blue collars funeral vigil the grand kids talked about all the good times they had with Grandma, Grandpa was out scouting or hunting. :think:

I unfortunately I fall into the Blue collar hunter. I missed way too many Thanksgiving dinners because I was out hunting. I killed a nice buck on Thanksgiving day 2012 :roll: Skill or luck? Sacrifice, hard work, dedication is what it takes to be successful.

Great topic for discussion.

Stanley, i appreciate your honesty. Its the time spent loving your family and the truth you teach them that is important. My wife prefers me to hit the woods hard one week a year. Rather than hunt 1-3 nights a week for a month or two

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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby iowa whitetail » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:33 pm

My opinion luck is just an excuse either a person uses it for a lack of success or uses it for the success of another person. Any buck I've ever been after and didn't get wasn't do to luck it's the simple fact I've failed to meet my goal, nothing else. I have 8 mounted over 150 inches (mature) that luck had nothing to do with. This is simply my Outlook not dogging anyone that supports luck. Good luck lol

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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby BCam » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:46 pm

iowa whitetail wrote:My opinion luck is just an excuse either a person uses it for a lack of success or uses it for the success of another person. Any buck I've ever been after and didn't get wasn't do to luck it's the simple fact I've failed to meet my goal, nothing else. I have 8 mounted over 150 inches (mature) that luck had nothing to do with. This is simply my Outlook not dogging anyone that supports luck. Good luck lol

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So you're saying your set ups were so bulletproof that nothing out of your control could have happened to blow those hunts? It all depends on each persons perspective but heck, at the end of the day we are all lucky to be alive. Haha

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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby BCam » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:49 pm

I bet we have all been unknowingly lucky that somebody else was a crappy shot.

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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby remmag » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:14 pm

I think deer hunting is part luck and part skill, which part that has the highest % varies from one hunter to the next. For all you beast hunters who are consistently killing slob bucks every season are without a doubt skilled, especially when those said bucks are coming from high pressured state land.

But unless your going out and filling your tag on your first sit every year because you knew that big buck was going to be there that exact day then how can you say there was zero luck involved? Even if it's just a small %?

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Re: What separates luck from skill?

Unread postby stash59 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:21 pm

iowa whitetail wrote:My opinion luck is just an excuse either a person uses it for a lack of success or uses it for the success of another person. Any buck I've ever been after and didn't get wasn't do to luck it's the simple fact I've failed to meet my goal, nothing else. I have 8 mounted over 150 inches (mature) that luck had nothing to do with. This is simply my Outlook not dogging anyone that supports luck. Good luck lol

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I'm starting to think that this boils down to personality types. Those that are naturally super confident. And those that are more realistic in their thinking.

I don't actually chalk up a missed chance at a harvest to bad luck. If you do that you will never learn from mistakes or situations that aren't successful. Maybe luck is the wrong word. I truthfully believe desire + hard work + common sense/experience/knowledge will lead to success. Probably because I'm new to the Beast style and targeting a specific buck for a certain location. I'm mentally finding it hard to be as confident as you.

Part of this may be because of all the set backs I've had in my life that have nothing to do with hunting. How I was raised and how I was effected. The health issues that have plagued me and kept me from living a "normal" life. It's just hard to feel like there aren't things out of our control including things while in pursuit of mature bucks.


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