The "red zone"...

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dan
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The "red zone"...

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:27 am

In football we call the red zone the last 20 yards before the endzone... There are many great teams out there that can effectively move the ball right down the field till they get to the last 20 yards, and then consistently fail to score in the red zone. They move the ball 40 or 50 yards down the field, but choke on the last 20 yards.

Hunting big bucks is much like this. There are guys who are not even in the game yet, and are still struggling to get chances at big bucks, and there are guys who can get the bucks in range consistently but just can't follow thru and "score"...

Truth is, we all fail in the red zone under pressure from time to time no matter how good we are, or think we are. Part of becoming a better hunter is to evaluate these failed attempts, and figure out what went wrong in an attempt to fix the issue, or draw up a new play for the next game.

Its also important to look at the hunts that went right, the bucks we did kill, or when we did score in the "red zone" and to think about why we scored and how we can use that play again in future "games".
So lets discuss some of our big buck encounters here, and collectively determine what went right or wrong... I think an open discussion of such, will help all involved whom have an open mind get better in the R/Z.


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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Dewey » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:53 am

I have been in the "red zone" more times than I care to admit and failed to score on big bucks for the past 3 seasons. I have had many things happen but my biggest cause has been bad shot angles. I am very picky with my shots and I think this does really limit my success. I don't believe in forcing a shot and in the end I am fine with my decision. I just don't ever want to be that guy that takes a shot I don't feel comfortable with and regret it later with losing a wounded deer. Been there and done that so I avoid it now. It's hard enough sometimes even on perfect shots.

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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:00 pm

Dewey, I think shot angle has been my greatest obstacle too. The sharper the angle, the poorer I shoot. I have tried practicing the angles, I have worked hard on my form... Its an issue. I am now just forcing myself to hunt lower where I have to shoot deer close to the tree, or try and sit farther back from the trail whenever possible... My vision has really been deteriorating the last couple years, and I think that is part of my issue. I hate using peeps but may experiment with them again this summer also, and see if that has an effect on angled shots.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby backstraps » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:02 pm

I think this topic will lead to be an informative one. Going to subscribe to the topic... in the meantime, I am staying on the bench coach!

;)
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby DropTyne » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:11 pm

I do not have a "red zone" problem whatsoever, my last two seasons have been plagued with cat and mouse games, what I mean by this is I see a target using a specific area, make my move and wind up with a 45 or 50 yard shot which I refuse to take, then I slip out, move in closer the next sit and the target buck comes out at a different location. I have had this multiple times over the past two seasons. I will openly admit that at times I have my heart set on just a few targets, so much so that I am passing shots at 120 and this year two 130 class bucks holding out for the top tier of the bucks in my hunting areas, and I AM getting close to them, just not close enough. When I have created opportunities in the past on these big boys I have closed the deal, so the red zone is not my concern, I play the wind, I am quiet with my lone wolf set up. I am concerned maybe my standards are too high, maybe need to scout more, or maybe I need to start dumping some of the bucks that are giving me opportunities, but on the other hand I feel that I am more than capable of scoring on these big boys, I have done it before and I can do it again.

Why is it? Why when you think you have it all figured out does the buck your after switch it up? Why always just out of range?

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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Dewey » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:12 pm

Dan,
My issue is not so much steep angles from the tree to the deer but more the the position of the deer. I prefer perfect broadside shots and shoot for dead center lungs and really avoid from shooting any sharp quartering away shots that may end up only hitting one lung. Many of the bucks I have let go just never gave me that perfect shot and I think that is one of my weaknesses.

I understand totally what you are saying too about steep angles as well. Those are really tough shots. Bending at the waist instead of dropping your arm will help.

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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Ridgerunner7 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:23 pm

Good topic. I have a pretty good percentage in the red zone compared to most of my friends.. At least with a bow. I've really learned to control my nerves at least somewhat and keep my composure. This has helped a lot. I struggle more with the ones that catch me by suprise and I'm forced to rush. I take good shots but I don't need to wait for the perfect shot. I take the first good shot the animal presents me. I practic difficult shots all year... Off balance, squating, threading the needle, shots where I'm forced to act faster than I'd like, etc, because the animal never seems to come in and offer the perfect broadside shot at 15 yards . Having confidence you're going to make the shot is huge. An early kill, even a doe really helps me. Confidence can fall quick with a mishap so I try to stay on top of it with a good solid kill now and then and year round practice.

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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:31 pm

Ridgerunner7 wrote:Good topic. I have a pretty good percentage in the red zone compared to most of my friends.. At least with a bow. I've really learned to control my nerves at least somewhat and keep my composure. This has helped a lot. I struggle more with the ones that catch me by suprise and I'm forced to rush. I take good shots but I don't need to wait for the perfect shot. I take the first good shot the animal presents me. I practic difficult shots all year... Off balance, squating, threading the needle, shots where I'm forced to act faster than I'd like, etc, because the animal never seems to come in and offer the perfect broadside shot at 15 yards . Having confidence you're going to make the shot is huge. An early kill, even a doe really helps me. Confidence can fall quick with a mishap so I try to stay on top of it with a good solid kill now and then and year round practice.

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Sounds a lot like me, but instead of struggling with the ones that catch me by surprise, I do better with those and struggle more with the ones you watch coming for ever...
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Bucky » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:34 pm

DropTyne wrote:I do not have a "red zone" problem whatsoever, my last two seasons have been plagued with cat and mouse games, what I mean by this is I see a target using a specific area, make my move and wind up with a 45 or 50 yard shot which I refuse to take, then I slip out, move in closer the next sit and the target buck comes out at a different location. I have had this multiple times over the past two seasons. I will openly admit that at times I have my heart set on just a few targets, so much so that I am passing shots at 120 and this year two 130 class bucks holding out for the top tier of the bucks in my hunting areas, and I AM getting close to them, just not close enough. When I have created opportunities in the past on these big boys I have closed the deal, so the red zone is not my concern, I play the wind, I am quiet with my lone wolf set up. I am concerned maybe my standards are too high, maybe need to scout more, or maybe I need to start dumping some of the bucks that are giving me opportunities, but on the other hand I feel that I am more than capable of scoring on these big boys, I have done it before and I can do it again.

Why is it? Why when you think you have it all figured out does the buck your after switch it up? Why always just out of range?

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No matter where you are hunting I don't think the opportunities are numerous at mature deer... 4-5yr old deer just don't make that many mistakes usually without dying (in areas where they are pursued by multiple hunters)...

I agree with Ridge, I think the easiest way to get better in the "Red Zone" is to purposely set up and kill multiple deer/yr if you can in your area (especially with the bow and arrow).
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:36 pm

Dewey wrote:Dan,
My issue is not so much steep angles from the tree to the deer but more the the position of the deer. I prefer perfect broadside shots and shoot for dead center lungs and really avoid from shooting any sharp quartering away shots that may end up only hitting one lung. Many of the bucks I have let go just never gave me that perfect shot and I think that is one of my weaknesses.

I understand totally what you are saying too about steep angles as well. Those are really tough shots. Bending at the waist instead of dropping your arm will help.

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Ahhh... I see.
One thing that bothers me is my percentages on does is much, much greater than on big bucks, and I think this is cause when a shooter buck comes in I want to get an arrow in it before it spooks, and don't want it to get away so I think to some degree I push the shot. There are a few shots when I look back I regret.
But when it comes to shooting a doe, if it gets away I could care less... So I wait for the perfect shot... I am getting better with this though, as I start to care less about killing and more about the chase.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:41 pm

DropTyne wrote:I do not have a "red zone" problem whatsoever, my last two seasons have been plagued with cat and mouse games, what I mean by this is I see a target using a specific area, make my move and wind up with a 45 or 50 yard shot which I refuse to take, then I slip out, move in closer the next sit and the target buck comes out at a different location. I have had this multiple times over the past two seasons. I will openly admit that at times I have my heart set on just a few targets, so much so that I am passing shots at 120 and this year two 130 class bucks holding out for the top tier of the bucks in my hunting areas, and I AM getting close to them, just not close enough. When I have created opportunities in the past on these big boys I have closed the deal, so the red zone is not my concern, I play the wind, I am quiet with my lone wolf set up. I am concerned maybe my standards are too high, maybe need to scout more, or maybe I need to start dumping some of the bucks that are giving me opportunities, but on the other hand I feel that I am more than capable of scoring on these big boys, I have done it before and I can do it again.

Why is it? Why when you think you have it all figured out does the buck your after switch it up? Why always just out of range?

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I think you might have more of a red zone issue than you realize... When a 4 - 5 year old comes out in one of my set ups, its usually right where I expect it. I think thats cause where you move to on day two, is where I go to on day one...
Most guys in my opinion are to conservative and set up to far back. My set ups are usually pretty close to the buck and where he stages every time he uses a certain bedding area... Before the trails split.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:46 pm

dan wrote:My set ups are usually pretty close to the buck and where he stages every time he uses a certain bedding area... Before the trails split.


What do you reccommend for clumbsy hunters (less stealthy).
Windy days or...?
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Arrowbender » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:52 pm

Great topic.

I can't complain about my record in the "red". I have certainly had a few get away. Usually because of what Dewey has problems with; not presenting.
I am probably somewhere in between "waiting for a perfect shot" and forcing the shot. I think if you question most consistent mature buck killers they more than likely are closer to the shot forcer than the perfect shot waiter.

It's a two fold result: you are going to kill more deer and it gives you the experience to evaluate the situation better in the future. The cost of course is the risk of getting the occasional marginal hit.
I am not advocating taking low percentage shots. I am NOT.
Just saying that those that are willing to take risks are going to have more kills.

Probably very similar to QB's in the red zone. Those that throw a lot in the confines of inside the twenty are going to get pic'd sometimes!
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Dor » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:54 pm

Arrowbender wrote:Great topic.

I can't complain about my record in the "red". I have certainly had a few get away. Usually because of what Dewey has problems with; not presenting.
I am probably somewhere in between "waiting for a perfect shot" and forcing the shot. I think if you question most consistent mature buck killers they more than likely are closer to the shot forcer than the perfect shot waiter.

It's a two fold result: you are going to kill more deer and it gives you the experience to evaluate the situation better in the future. The cost of course is the risk of getting the occasional marginal hit.
I am not advocating taking low percentage shots. I am NOT.
Just saying that those that are willing to take risks are going to have more kills.

Probably very similar to QB's in the red zone. Those that throw a lot in the confines of inside the twenty are going to get pic'd sometimes!

Agree
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:12 pm

Edcyclopedia wrote:
dan wrote:My set ups are usually pretty close to the buck and where he stages every time he uses a certain bedding area... Before the trails split.


What do you reccommend for clumbsy hunters (less stealthy).
Windy days or...?

Try harder... Walk slower...
I think if you have an issue sneaking that last hundred yards its probably due to a lack of confidence, or belief that the buck is really there. I think all of us go at un-natural speeds because of our fast paced work and play life... In the woods everything moves slow. Except people.


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