The "red zone"...

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Dewey
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Dewey » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:32 pm

Brad Lamont wrote:
Stanley wrote:
Southern Man wrote:Suprisingly, I feel fairly confident in the red zone.... once I get there. I'm comfortable waiting for the shot, angle of the shot doesn't bother me, and I will rush the shot if I need to. Not to say I'm not nervous or that my blood isn't racing thru my veins like a freight train and I have made a bunch of mistakes at the moment of truth. For me age is getting to be the biggest obsticle on getting to the red zone. My vision isn't what it use to be, my drive is starting to wain, and things are getting harder and harder to do. The want to is still there but the execution is lacking. I think alot of that comes from knowing that I don't have to kill anymore. Not saying you guys feel like you must "kill" to be sucessful. But I put alot of pressure on myself in the past to get it done with only 1 acceptable outcome, to kill. I don't feel that way anymore.

The young guys may not understand but I sure do.



I know this feeling, I am seeing myself progress towards this, especially the past two years. I use to want to kill every single deer I saw, I would fling arrows any chance I could, or fling lead the same. I think as said that its a natural progression, at first I just wanted to kill to get my numbers up, I judged my season by the kill tallys. Then I wanted to kill big bucks, and I have a few. I still want big bucks but I don't seem to put as much pressure on myself, especially if things went wrong. I have a haunting moment from back in 2007 when I wounded a buck that would push Boone and Crockett, I still cringe on that buck when I think of it. When I missed the 150" this year I was sick to my stomach for about 10 minutes, I felt like I let my season down. Then shortly after that a calming feeling came over me and I told myself the buck did exactly what you anticipated when you set this stand, you got the shot, you beat the deer, you just didn't kill him, or something to that extent. It was almost like I knew that good was coming my way and soon if I didn't get too ticked off at myself, and then 2 hours later I got a different buck.

I guess what I am trying to say is now I do not feel like I have to kill a deer, I still love to and hope that never goes away, but now I enjoy watching and learning from the deer, and I feel more emotions out there, its not just kill kill kill, now its more focused, and I have more sympathy for the deer, like i respect taking a life now more than I used to, and I start to feel a little remorse after I have killed them, not enough that I ever see myself giving it up, but I realize my actions in the woods effect things, including another living creatures lives. I no longer judge success by kill marks, I judge it by if I am learning from each trip. My most successful hunts this year did not result in a kill, but I learned more on those hunts and they will help me down the road. I think this site has helped in this regard a lot.

Great post Brad! 8-)

Your 2nd paragraph is word for word exactly how I feel. As long as I am having fun and learning something, killing is not as important as it once was.

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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby RaisedByWolves » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:08 pm

browning3 wrote:I'm money when in the red zone. I've always been a clutch kinda guy. Perform better under pressure. My problem is consistently getting into that "Red Zone". If I'm there something is gonna die. Just doesn't happen as much as I would like.

I'm pretty sure I know why. Lack of time to really peg down the "Red Zone" spots and also identifying these spots without always second guessing myself. I really don't see myself getting more time so I need to be better and more efficient at identifying these spots when I'm there.



big X2....another thing I learned when scouting with Dan last spring was how close he sets up on beds. I knew he liked it close but man.... :D very confident. Gotta remind myself that they're just deer.... This I think could be the thing that gets me onto a few more bucks. That and continuously scouting to find the well used beds
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby dan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:58 pm

exojam wrote:
dan wrote:The biggest red zone failure I see in other people is poor set ups... Setting up facing away from the approaching deer, setting up to low, or to high, Not using the available cover, setting up right over the trail so the deer comes straight in staring at you. etc.
Getting good at setting up, will make you better for sure.



Dan,

Does this part come with experience, say in reading tracks on the ground, scraps, rubs, etc?

Your information really caught my attention since I just read this from JoeRE above

"One thing that has helped me immensely for "The Moment" is visualizing exactly what to do to get a shot for every possible scenario that I can think of while sitting in stand. Deer coming in from left, right, behind, etc...deer sees me draw and locks up, deer doesn't want to stop, deer offers some tough quartering shot etc. I feel pretty strongly that visualizing tough scenarios helped me kill two bucks that I otherwise might not have."

I saw a lot of tracks, poop and scraps on a old railroad bed this afternoon and want to be on it maybe tomorrow afternoon. I am going to try it only on my scooter which will only leave me about less than 180 degrees of a shooting window. I am hoping to find a big pine tree to use as some cover but a nervous they may come from an angel I cannot see. Worst cause scenario is I setup up wrong and the deer teach me a lesson I guess. Thanks.

James

I would say experience should help... Great hunters make mistakes too. The difference between a great hunter and a not so great hunter is that the great one dwells on his mistake, takes it apart, figures out whatr went wrong, and does his best to keep that from happening again.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby dan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:00 pm

Jackson Marsh wrote:I struggle getting into the "Red Zone", I do not often get shots at decent bucks. I think the cure is to scout more, but also scout smarter. I know I tend to wander when scouting, which isn't all bad, but with more focused attention, really honing in on the most likely areas would probably make me more efficient. In the last four bow seasons, I've had five shot opportunities on bucks I wanted to kill........I killed four of them, made a poor shot on one of them. I would like to see how I would react with a true giant in range................I'll find out next year :mrgreen:

I notice a lot of guys "think" there scouting, when they are really out looking for sheds, or taking a walk... When I scout, I am very focused on goals, and specifically looking to gain certain intel.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby exojam » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:13 am

Dan,

Thank you very much for your reply and information.

James
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby phade » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:26 am

Personally, my Red Zone failure has zero to do with the physical Red Zone itself.

It all traces back to access...access...access. I just don't have enough quality mature buck hunting ground. The past few years have brought me to the least amount of ground I can hunt in my home state than ever before in my life. I've worked to overcome that with a few leases I was able to acquire, and one has really panned out...but it's only 35 acres. Public land of any size is too far for anything other than a weekend hunt at best.

In the past three seasons, I've had three Red Zone situations with mature bucks and have scored two times. The third instance was set up and had the buck at 65 yards, but I was boxed in - property lines seperated me from the buck, and a move was impossible.

Hunters seem great at micro-managing themselves to death. The real gains in some cases are had at the "Big Picture" level. No doubt, I could certainly always be improving my Red Zone skills, but the lowest hole in the bucket for me is quality land access. It's wierd, I feel confident that if I have the land to do so, I that I can kill that buck once I find him. Problem is that I simply don't have access to do so. This season was do or die for me on the 35 acre lease and it worked...I suspect rolling dice on one outcome with one roll will eventually keep me from attaining the level of success I want. And, boy, am I ever trying to overcome that.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Southern Man » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:03 am

xpauliber wrote:
Stanley wrote:
Southern Man wrote:Suprisingly, I feel fairly confident in the red zone.... once I get there. I'm comfortable waiting for the shot, angle of the shot doesn't bother me, and I will rush the shot if I need to. Not to say I'm not nervous or that my blood isn't racing thru my veins like a freight train and I have made a bunch of mistakes at the moment of truth. For me age is getting to be the biggest obsticle on getting to the red zone. My vision isn't what it use to be, my drive is starting to wain, and things are getting harder and harder to do. The want to is still there but the execution is lacking. I think alot of that comes from knowing that I don't have to kill anymore. Not saying you guys feel like you must "kill" to be sucessful. But I put alot of pressure on myself in the past to get it done with only 1 acceptable outcome, to kill. I don't feel that way anymore.

The young guys may not understand but I sure do.


I think it's just a natural progression of a successful big buck hunter. When you only have 1 or 2 bucks on the wall, then absolutely you have the desire to prove to yourself that you can do it and even though I agree that a successful hunt doesn't have to end with a kill, sealing the deal at the end of the chase is the most important part for me right now. I hope to one day have a wall or WALLS that look like some of the hunters on here. haha Maybe then I will have accomplished all of my personal goals and not put myself under so much pressure.

Can you have a successful hunting career and not kill anything? Sure, I like chasing big bucks and getting shots at them is even better, but if I don't end up putting bone on the ground then I have to stop and ask myself if I really have what it takes. I don't think anyone would argue that Dan Marino had a successful career, but ask him if there's anything missing. ;)


Don't get me wrong, when I go to the woods, to kill is my main objective. And I have many opportunities to do so every year, just not what I want to kill. It just doesn't bother me as much when I don't kill. I know what I'm after and won't settle for less, no need to. As long as I'm able to walk out into the woods it's good for me, but I still want to kill.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Southern Man » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:06 am

phade wrote:Personally, my Red Zone failure has zero to do with the physical Red Zone itself.

It all traces back to access...access...access. I just don't have enough quality mature buck hunting ground. The past few years have brought me to the least amount of ground I can hunt in my home state than ever before in my life. I've worked to overcome that with a few leases I was able to acquire, and one has really panned out...but it's only 35 acres. Public land of any size is too far for anything other than a weekend hunt at best.

In the past three seasons, I've had three Red Zone situations with mature bucks and have scored two times. The third instance was set up and had the buck at 65 yards, but I was boxed in - property lines seperated me from the buck, and a move was impossible.

Hunters seem great at micro-managing themselves to death. The real gains in some cases are had at the "Big Picture" level. No doubt, I could certainly always be improving my Red Zone skills, but the lowest hole in the bucket for me is quality land access. It's wierd, I feel confident that if I have the land to do so, I that I can kill that buck once I find him. Problem is that I simply don't have access to do so. This season was do or die for me on the 35 acre lease and it worked...I suspect rolling dice on one outcome with one roll will eventually keep me from attaining the level of success I want. And, boy, am I ever trying to overcome that.


I agree. And the less access you have, the harder it becomes.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Schultzy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:06 am

Arrowbender wrote:Great topic.

I can't complain about my record in the "red". I have certainly had a few get away. Usually because of what Dewey has problems with; not presenting.
I am probably somewhere in between "waiting for a perfect shot" and forcing the shot. I think if you question most consistent mature buck killers they more than likely are closer to the shot forcer than the perfect shot waiter.

It's a two fold result: you are going to kill more deer and it gives you the experience to evaluate the situation better in the future. The cost of course is the risk of getting the occasional marginal hit.
I am not advocating taking low percentage shots. I am NOT.
Just saying that those that are willing to take risks are going to have more kills.

Probably very similar to QB's in the red zone. Those that throw a lot in the confines of inside the twenty are going to get pic'd sometimes!
Excellent topic Is right!! Dan, Isn't the red zone 20 yards from the goal line? ;)

I think everyone's red zone may differ. Mine I know Is much closer, more like 10 to 12 yards. Like Dewey I'm very picky on my shot selection. I've had some nice bucks right under my tree only to walk away. Part of that too though Is the equipment I'm using. There's no drawing and holding a 60lb recurve. There's no doubt though that I struggle with getting deer In "my" red zone. So many times I can get them with In 20 to 25 yards but I gotta let them walk as that's just not a comfortable shot for me. Heck this year I let a mid 130's buck go at 16 or so yards. I've never let a deer go that close that I wanted to shoot. Something didn't feel right so I let the string down. That was tough to do. Like I mentioned In a thread I made a few weeks ago concerning confident Issues, that played Into me letting the string down on that buck.

Again, great topic Dan!
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Casper » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:46 am

dan wrote: I notice a lot of guys "think" there scouting, when they are really out looking for sheds, or taking a walk... When I scout, I am very focused on goals, and specifically looking to gain certain intel.

That is one of my problems with shed hunting, I am too busy scouting and looking for places to hunt!

To answer the question, prior to this year I have had the problems the past few years with sealing the deal. I have had no problem getting close bucks that I have considered shooters, but when it comes to the moment of truth I have frozen high. It absolutely drives me nuts.It all started when I bought a bow that I never really felt comfortable at my anchor point. I got rid of the bow, but still had the same problem last year on a buck I hit in the shoulder. I feel like I have fixed the problem at the end of last year and this year with killing three bucks with my bow. Next year I am going to go further and buy a single pin sight. I think it should help some.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Dewey » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:54 am

Casper wrote:
dan wrote: I notice a lot of guys "think" there scouting, when they are really out looking for sheds, or taking a walk... When I scout, I am very focused on goals, and specifically looking to gain certain intel.

That is one of my problems with shed hunting, I am too busy scouting and looking for places to hunt!

To answer the question, prior to this year I have had the problems the past few years with sealing the deal. I have had no problem getting close bucks that I have considered shooters, but when it comes to the moment of truth I have frozen high. It absolutely drives me nuts.It all started when I bought a bow that I never really felt comfortable at my anchor point. I got rid of the bow, but still had the same problem last year on a buck I hit in the shoulder. I feel like I have fixed the problem at the end of last year and this year with killing three bucks with my bow. Next year I am going to go further and buy a single pin sight. I think it should help some.

I think it's safe to say with the season you had this year.................the problem is fixed! ;)

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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby DropTyne » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:39 pm

Bump. Good thread here.

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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Elk2782 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:00 am

I had a huge buck this year inside the "red zone" about 12 yards come in straight behind me, and since I was on top a ridge I didn't have a shooting lane in that direction, I kept the cover behind me to break up my outline, the buck needed to come to my right or left. I guess I have had this problem before of not clearing lanes enough either way it was a tough shot to try and turn completly around in that stand, I got to watch him walk over the hill and never got a crack at him.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Southern Man » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:53 am

Elk2782 wrote:I had a huge buck this year inside the "red zone" about 12 yards come in straight behind me, and since I was on top a ridge I didn't have a shooting lane in that direction, I kept the cover behind me to break up my outline, the buck needed to come to my right or left. I guess I have had this problem before of not clearing lanes enough either way it was a tough shot to try and turn completly around in that stand, I got to watch him walk over the hill and never got a crack at him.


Been there, done that. If there's one thing Stanley has said that stuck with me (and there are many) you can't kill if you have no shot.

I don't like cutting shooting lanes, but I do to some extend. I have also learned to set-up where that's not a problem. I like to be covered from a distance, up close I don't care as much. If the buck makes it in to me close I've got a shot.

I wouid still be kicking myself in the but in that situation and still am from the 2011 season. But hey, it happens.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:03 am

dan wrote:The biggest red zone failure I see in other people is poor set ups... Setting up facing away from the approaching deer, setting up to low, or to high, Not using the available cover, setting up right over the trail so the deer comes straight in staring at you. etc.
Getting good at setting up, will make you better for sure.


This is sage advice and bears repeating... it doesn't matter how skilled you are at locating big bucks, all the time and effort that you put in to this endeavor will come crashing down with this one basic tenant if not handled properly.


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