The "red zone"...

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Edcyclopedia
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:47 am

Stanley wrote:I have had some failures in the red zone. I can't think of anyone that is half honest that hasn't. To be continuously successful in the clutch take a combination of things. Experience helps immensely. Preparedness, honed shooting skills, knowing you can make the shot (confidence), having an open shot (I personally think this is a big cause for failure). Not having a good open shot puts so much pressure on the hunter and can lead to panic failure. No open shot is failure waiting to happen. Able to hit moving animals instead of grunting at them. I have never stopped a buck to kill him. I also agree not being afraid to take a tough shot puts bucks on the wall. Having one pin instead of 7 will up your odds in the red zone. Some will argue, but realistically centering one pin happens much faster than rifting through 7 pins. Over dressed in cold weather can lead to failure in the red zone. Over bowed (especially in cold weather) can lead to failure in the red zone.


A biggy IMO - forced errors or shall we call them unforced errors...
Depends on the individuals definition that took the shot --> most people believe their shots are good, but in reality they push the envelope.

[glow=red]I know I have![/glow]


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virginiashadow
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby virginiashadow » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:10 am

My red zone stinks to high heaven. I have been in bow range of several bucks that would be top end bucks for the 50,000 acre public land place I hunt and have yet to release an arrow. For one reason or another I did not make it happen. This year I had 5 chances within 40 yards of high end bucks on my buddies private land spot and for one reason or another those bucks did not stroll another ten yards toward where I was set up. Once again I suck.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby xpauliber » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:52 am

Stanley wrote:
Southern Man wrote:Suprisingly, I feel fairly confident in the red zone.... once I get there. I'm comfortable waiting for the shot, angle of the shot doesn't bother me, and I will rush the shot if I need to. Not to say I'm not nervous or that my blood isn't racing thru my veins like a freight train and I have made a bunch of mistakes at the moment of truth. For me age is getting to be the biggest obsticle on getting to the red zone. My vision isn't what it use to be, my drive is starting to wain, and things are getting harder and harder to do. The want to is still there but the execution is lacking. I think alot of that comes from knowing that I don't have to kill anymore. Not saying you guys feel like you must "kill" to be sucessful. But I put alot of pressure on myself in the past to get it done with only 1 acceptable outcome, to kill. I don't feel that way anymore.

The young guys may not understand but I sure do.


I think it's just a natural progression of a successful big buck hunter. When you only have 1 or 2 bucks on the wall, then absolutely you have the desire to prove to yourself that you can do it and even though I agree that a successful hunt doesn't have to end with a kill, sealing the deal at the end of the chase is the most important part for me right now. I hope to one day have a wall or WALLS that look like some of the hunters on here. haha Maybe then I will have accomplished all of my personal goals and not put myself under so much pressure.

Can you have a successful hunting career and not kill anything? Sure, I like chasing big bucks and getting shots at them is even better, but if I don't end up putting bone on the ground then I have to stop and ask myself if I really have what it takes. I don't think anyone would argue that Dan Marino had a successful career, but ask him if there's anything missing. ;)
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby JoeRE » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:56 am

Stanley wrote:Having one pin instead of 7 will up your odds in the red zone. Some will argue, but realistically centering one pin happens much faster than rifting through 7 pins.


Forgot about that, that one hit a nerve for me! I messed up more than a few times in the picking a pin department, had 4 pins on my sight my first few years bow hunting, wanted to be prepared for anything haha! Then I dropped to three pins...now I am down to 2 pins and really like it, I know I can handle two pins when the pressure is on.


One thing that has helped me immensely for "The Moment" is visualizing exactly what to do to get a shot for every possible scenario that I can think of while sitting in stand. Deer coming in from left, right, behind, etc...deer sees me draw and locks up, deer doesn't want to stop, deer offers some tough quartering shot etc. I feel pretty strongly that visualizing tough scenarios helped me kill two bucks that I otherwise might not have.

Too great of draw weight probably saves a ton of deer from an arrow. I pick a draw weight that I can draw without raising my bow skyward like you see on so many hunting shows, I can also draw it so s-l-o-w-l-y I know I can complete the draw even if the deer is in the open as long as its not hyper alert or super close. Picking a reasonable draw weight also means you can hold it for that 2-3 plus minutes if necessary, for you compound shooters anyway...go ahead, be a sissy and back off that poundage ;)
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby DropTyne » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:53 am

virginiashadow wrote:My red zone stinks to high heaven. I have been in bow range of several bucks that would be top end bucks for the 50,000 acre public land place I hunt and have yet to release an arrow. For one reason or another I did not make it happen. This year I had 5 chances within 40 yards of high end bucks on my buddies private land spot and for one reason or another those bucks did not stroll another ten yards toward where I was set up. Once again I suck.


That is my exact problem, it is not having the ability to shoot, or even being able to calm myself for a good shot, I am good at that, it is the last 10 or 20 yards that for one reason or another rarely seems to occur, I really wish I knew why this seems to have become a standard for me. I may change my handle to "50Yarder". If someone can tell me why this is happening I am all ears......
DROPTYNE

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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby rutnbuck » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:18 am

Personally I like to set up right on top of them (15 yards and closer for the shot) that way when he gets in the red zone I have a bit more margin of pulling off the shot if he tries getting out of the zone. If he is at 40 yards or more a lot more brush and limbs start making it downright impossible to pull it off. If he is close and starts getting shy than you still have a margin of error about 15 yards. I hunt right in the thickest possible stuff I can shoot arrows through. Not a lot of lanes to get an arrow through but you get him much closer which helps increase my odds. Some hunters don't like to shoot straight down, I'll take it every day of the week (in a tree stand vertical is easier than shooting horizontal). Hanging a stand is an art IMO to get the buck in the "red zone".
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby MOBIGBUCKS » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:07 am

I have done pretty good in the Red Zone department, but i have a few shining examples of when i completely failed. I had a Booner come into into 15 yards last year and I completely fell apart it seems. i never expected a shot that close and all of a sudden it happened. A humbling experience for sure.

I also think most guys are way over bowed including myself at times. I shot 70 pounds for years until i switched over to lefthand shooting. I dropped to sixty pounds and I still kill and pass thru anything i shoot at. Next year, I'm thinking about getting a 50 pound bow just for bed hunts. The shots will be close and I think drawing and holding that 50 pound bow will be perfect for not rushing the shot and drawing back very very slow. I really think were overdo our setups at times.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby backstraps » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:30 am

dan wrote:In football we call the red zone the last 10 yards before the endzone... There are many great teams out there that can effectively move the ball right down the field till they get to the last 10 yards, and then fail to score in the red zone...
Hunting big bucks is much like this. There are guys who are not even in the game yet, and are still struggling to get chances at big bucks, and there are guys who can get the bucks in range consistently but just can't follow thru and "score"...
Truth is, we all fail in the red zone from time to time no matter how good we are... Part of becoming a better hunter is to evaluate these failed attempts, and figure out what went wrong in an attempt to fix the issue...
Its also important to look at the hunts that went right, the bucks we did kill, or when we did score in the "red zone"...
So lets discuss some of our big buck encounters here, and collectively determine what went right or wrong... I think an open discussion of such, will help all involved whom have an open mind get better in the R/Z.



Well I think there is another hunter that isnt mentioned above. The hunter that gets in the game every once and a while. Not consistantly, but a few times a season. So, for me personally, I am that hunter. I can get in the game and be a hero and score occassionally. I can get in the game and be a zero too.

However, I think my errors preventing me from positioning myself in the game more often. These are the areas I am still working on improving. But, since the discussion is around what is done in the redzone when we get there... I used to have a problem of confidence. Confidence the buck would continue to move in range for the shot. I would rush things along and take the first opportunity even it it was on the outer limits of my effective range. In the last 10 years, I have practiced more patience once the deer has came into the "comfort zone" Once he is in there, I tell myself he wouldnt came this close if he was alerted to my presence. So waiting for a closer shot, or a better positioning of the deer (broadsided) or even letting him get to a more open area for a shot in case its last light. This increases less chances of a twig or branch I cant see from deflecting my arrow.

Another thing I feel has helped my tremendously... If a buck has entered my comfort zone and he isnt on edge, or alert, I SURE am NOT going to make a bleat-grunt sound or any other sound to stop the deer. I have lost a couple deer due to once I stopped the deer, he is so alert the second the string is released, I have seen one bucks stomach touch the ground ducking the string. So that was a huge lesson learned for me too.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby browning3 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:33 am

I'm money when in the red zone. I've always been a clutch kinda guy. Perform better under pressure. My problem is consistently getting into that "Red Zone". If I'm there something is gonna die. Just doesn't happen as much as I would like.

I'm pretty sure I know why. Lack of time to really peg down the "Red Zone" spots and also identifying these spots without always second guessing myself. I really don't see myself getting more time so I need to be better and more efficient at identifying these spots when I'm there.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby dan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:57 am

The biggest red zone failure I see in other people is poor set ups... Setting up facing away from the approaching deer, setting up to low, or to high, Not using the available cover, setting up right over the trail so the deer comes straight in staring at you. etc.
Getting good at setting up, will make you better for sure.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby rutnbuck » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:17 am

dan wrote:The biggest red zone failure I see in other people is poor set ups... Setting up facing away from the approaching deer, setting up to low, or to high, Not using the available cover, setting up right over the trail so the deer comes straight in staring at you. etc.
Getting good at setting up, will make you better for sure.


Exactly, Go to the Red Zone, not letting the Red Zone come to you!!!
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby goldtip5575 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:31 pm

One major problem for me was drawing to heavy of a bow.My distance and accuracy has improved since I switched from 70 to 60 lb draw weight.Should have made the switch sooner passed up to many shots on good bucks due to distance of shot.As much as we know wounding deer and not finding them happens no one wants to be that guy.I myself would just as soon get to the redzone and have a lower success of kill rate because the shot wasnt perfect.
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby exojam » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:01 pm

dan wrote:The biggest red zone failure I see in other people is poor set ups... Setting up facing away from the approaching deer, setting up to low, or to high, Not using the available cover, setting up right over the trail so the deer comes straight in staring at you. etc.
Getting good at setting up, will make you better for sure.



Dan,

Does this part come with experience, say in reading tracks on the ground, scraps, rubs, etc?

Your information really caught my attention since I just read this from JoeRE above

"One thing that has helped me immensely for "The Moment" is visualizing exactly what to do to get a shot for every possible scenario that I can think of while sitting in stand. Deer coming in from left, right, behind, etc...deer sees me draw and locks up, deer doesn't want to stop, deer offers some tough quartering shot etc. I feel pretty strongly that visualizing tough scenarios helped me kill two bucks that I otherwise might not have."

I saw a lot of tracks, poop and scraps on a old railroad bed this afternoon and want to be on it maybe tomorrow afternoon. I am going to try it only on my scooter which will only leave me about less than 180 degrees of a shooting window. I am hoping to find a big pine tree to use as some cover but a nervous they may come from an angel I cannot see. Worst cause scenario is I setup up wrong and the deer teach me a lesson I guess. Thanks.

James
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Jackson Marsh » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:08 pm

I struggle getting into the "Red Zone", I do not often get shots at decent bucks. I think the cure is to scout more, but also scout smarter. I know I tend to wander when scouting, which isn't all bad, but with more focused attention, really honing in on the most likely areas would probably make me more efficient. In the last four bow seasons, I've had five shot opportunities on bucks I wanted to kill........I killed four of them, made a poor shot on one of them. I would like to see how I would react with a true giant in range................I'll find out next year :mrgreen:
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Re: The "red zone"...

Unread postby Brad » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:07 pm

Stanley wrote:
Southern Man wrote:Suprisingly, I feel fairly confident in the red zone.... once I get there. I'm comfortable waiting for the shot, angle of the shot doesn't bother me, and I will rush the shot if I need to. Not to say I'm not nervous or that my blood isn't racing thru my veins like a freight train and I have made a bunch of mistakes at the moment of truth. For me age is getting to be the biggest obsticle on getting to the red zone. My vision isn't what it use to be, my drive is starting to wain, and things are getting harder and harder to do. The want to is still there but the execution is lacking. I think alot of that comes from knowing that I don't have to kill anymore. Not saying you guys feel like you must "kill" to be sucessful. But I put alot of pressure on myself in the past to get it done with only 1 acceptable outcome, to kill. I don't feel that way anymore.

The young guys may not understand but I sure do.



I know this feeling, I am seeing myself progress towards this, especially the past two years. I use to want to kill every single deer I saw, I would fling arrows any chance I could, or fling lead the same. I think as said that its a natural progression, at first I just wanted to kill to get my numbers up, I judged my season by the kill tallys. Then I wanted to kill big bucks, and I have a few. I still want big bucks but I don't seem to put as much pressure on myself, especially if things went wrong. I have a haunting moment from back in 2007 when I wounded a buck that would push Boone and Crockett, I still cringe on that buck when I think of it. When I missed the 150" this year I was sick to my stomach for about 10 minutes, I felt like I let my season down. Then shortly after that a calming feeling came over me and I told myself the buck did exactly what you anticipated when you set this stand, you got the shot, you beat the deer, you just didn't kill him, or something to that extent. It was almost like I knew that good was coming my way and soon if I didn't get too ticked off at myself, and then 2 hours later I got a different buck.

I guess what I am trying to say is now I do not feel like I have to kill a deer, I still love to and hope that never goes away, but now I enjoy watching and learning from the deer, and I feel more emotions out there, its not just kill kill kill, now its more focused, and I have more sympathy for the deer, like i respect taking a life now more than I used to, and I start to feel a little remorse after I have killed them, not enough that I ever see myself giving it up, but I realize my actions in the woods effect things, including another living creatures lives. I no longer judge success by kill marks, I judge it by if I am learning from each trip. My most successful hunts this year did not result in a kill, but I learned more on those hunts and they will help me down the road. I think this site has helped in this regard a lot.


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