Are small bucks stringing you along?

[RidgeReaper]

This is exactly what I struggle with! I'm really glad to see this posted up here. I know I've heard you talk about this briefly before. I get really bummed out if I'm not seeing deer and my confidence level seems to plummet and I always feel like I screwed things up. So on this tactic then...how do you know if you should adjust tactics? Do you hunt the same spot a few times until you get prove the spot will or will not produce?

[dan]

This is exactly what I struggle with! I'm really glad to see this posted up here. I know I've heard you talk about this briefly before. I get really bummed out if I'm not seeing deer and my confidence level seems to plummet and I always feel like I screwed things up. So on this tactic then...how do you know if you should adjust tactics? Do you hunt the same spot a few times until you get prove the spot will or will not produce?

I am constantly moving... I would suggest reading my journal I keep on this forum, it will really give you a perspective of how much I dance around and how little I see, while still killing way more than my share of decent bucks... Here is a direct link:
viewtopic.php?f=191&t=26466

[Hawthorne]

I use to hunt a 40 acre piece that had a real good bedding swamp on it. It was bordered by hardwoods. Sometimes when I would go in there to hunt I would kick up young bucks bedding in the open hardwoods in satellite beds. I did'nt realize it at the time that they were being ran out of the primary bedding by a mature buck. Those were the years I knew a big buck was in there. Another eye opener I've learned on the beast.

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[stash59]

This is a great thread. The jump from shooting any deer to only shooting bucks was an easy one for me. Jumping to only shooting bigger bucks (3.5 +) was much harder. All of the older guys I hunted with just couldn't understand it. Any buck is a good buck was their opinion. The area I grew up hunting all of the deer traveled longer distances than the "traditional" 1-2 square miles that the "experts' talked about. Especially the bucks. Even more so the mature bucks. So even though I talked the big talk I usually ended up with the typical 1.5 y.o. because these older bucks were really hard to pattern. Plus I was still learning. When I started hunting in far northern Wisconsin my big buck learning curve increased much faster. Even though the deer densities were much lower than where I first learned to hunt. The mature buck numbers were actually higher. Hunting mature bucks takes a progression. If your still rather new to deer hunting you need to take a few years and shoot some does and smaller bucks. Than maybe hold out for a 2.5 y.o. and so on. The first time I let a smaller buck walk was incredibly painful. Then the couple years of not filling tags without even seeing a big buck I wondered what the heck I was doing. Even though I didn't ever connect on a mature buck in northern Wisconsin. I had close encounters with 10 -12. Had shots under 25 yards at half of these (my traditional phase, I learned I needed a pin to help calm me down enough to pick a spot). I knew I had started to figure out the hard part. Finding the mature bucks in the first place. Dan's approach has opened up new ways to look at things. Even though I know there will be a learning curve. I've regained alot of confidence that I can do this. And I have just barely started to scout with his techniques and hunting methods in mind. My biggest obstacle will be how much my disability holds me back. I'm planning to read the threads on the mental part of the game. I feel it will go had in hand with this one.

[BowAssasin]

I believe the whole trick is learning how to manage hunting pressure. Depending on the time of year and the food source they are using at the time intrude as little as possible. I have a little 40 acre track that i planted a small shot plot on and i keep one camera out on that plot. I know without a doubt that i get a picture of every deer using that property I might go in there once every four weeks to check that camera. This year i finally killed this deer ive been after for several years on the very first time i hunted it because of MRI. Some people around where i hunt say it was luck but thats the second nice deer i took off that 40 acres in 2 years. I have both bucks for a couple summers in a row roaming together. Very rewarding when it all comes together....................Just figure out the best way to intrude as little as possible and hunt the weather and wind right and you will have success guranteed.

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[Missionshooter]

This thread is great because many of us are looking for the "secret recipe". The spots where multiple mature bucks move during daylight repeatedly year after year. We sit and sit and sit and see nothing and doubt our stand locations because other guys are "seeing 8 deer a sit". While they may see more deer, they are not seeing mature bucks.

I will be honest and say that when I was young/dumb I used to believe there are spots where multiple mature bucks would cruise by almost on a weekly basis. Like an area where maybe once a day almost everyday, there would be a mature buck walking past the tree at 20 yards. It was just a matter of finding "THAT SPOT".

At that time, I didn't understand how mature bucks operated and how they moved.


This thread has given me some better perspective and how much of a mind game and marathon hunting mature bucks actually is.

[mainebowhunter]

A lot of guys really get hung up on needing to see deer to feel successful. However, in my opinion, when you take the jump from deer hunter to mature buck hunter you need to be able to go a few days without seeing deer. Heck, I have gone weeks already... Setting up on the super highway trails will put deer in front of you, but usually not mature bucks. It almost seems like young bucks and old bucks are two different animals... Setting up beast style near a bedding area is likely not going to increase your deer sightings, probably exactly the opposite.
This is where a lot of guys loose confidence and fall back into the stands where they see lots of deer, but not many shooters...

Comments? Observations?

Thought I would bump this thread. Good one.

2013 I was hunting 3 different bucks in the urban zone. I hunted 28 days in this area...without seeing a deer. 2016, 2 of those bucks are still alive. One I have given up on...rack has shrunk to nothing. This area is just not real productive. I only write this to add...some areas produce less deer...because the areas are poor areas to hunt. After 3yrs spending time on this property, have come the realization, its a tough property to hunt. And, its time to find better areas. I am wasting my time. Most hunters have abandoned the place. Guess there is probably a reason...lol.

Few years back, here in Maine, made the decision to pass 2.5yr olds. Meant a couple seasons, no bucks with my bow. Pass pass pass. I think you start to come to the point where you do not have to kill a lesser buck to have a good season. So now its trying to get my buddy to kill me deer...lol. Tell them..."Look, I will meet you at the check station and take it from there." (He is not a big deer meat kind of guy). Chasing mature deer means, no more 5 deer seasons in Maine. And my family loves venison, makes it tougher. So any 3.5yr old is fair game. 2013 was also the year where had a 9yd encounter with a target buck...meehhh he bolted. Disappointed. But man was I pumped. It left me shaking just like I had shot him.

In the midwest, 2015 was a big jump for me in my head...I decided to start holding out for upper level bucks. However, if a buck makes me happy, I am going to shoot it, whatever the score. The one I shot this year, had no idea of the score. Knew he was around. I just thought he was freakin cool. So I shot him. He turned out to be much bigger than I thought.

The goal, is 140"+. Which typically means, holding out for at least 4.5yr old buck. It comes to the point where the size of the buck or the outcome of the hunt does not determine the QUALITY of the hunt. Having encounters with big bucks...even if an arrow was not fired, to me is a success. Its hard to explain...but its just a really settled contented spot to be.

I think some day when I mature as a deer hunter, you will see me pick up a recurve. I am just not at the point yet where if a big 160" buck walks by at 35yds that I am ok with letting him walk because he is out of range. Its why I could give up a rifle. I am ok with passing a buck at 100 yds because he is out of range.

[Rich M]

I'm deaf, and after about 38 years of deer hunting, I'm in still the infancy of it all. There were few deer when I started in the 70s - hunted 9 or 16 day season (big woods VT, NH, ME) and just seeing a doe or two was something over the entire time - even with a buck only season. Seasons got longer, more deer showed and figured out a few spots to get does as they were allowed and did that for about 12 years. As for bucks - took a spike and 5 pt in that time.

Anyway. I've seen about 30 bucks in the past 3 years (2013, 2014, 2015), while I had seen maybe 8 and shot 2 of those while hunting in the previous 35 years. It really has been a confidence booster.

It is easier to not see and thereby pass small bucks if you know that you can see and shoot them at will (if you desire), and are choosing to sit in a "less sightings" area to try for Mr. Big. It also helps knowing that you have does available for the freezer.

[creepingdeth]

great observation by all. My b-in- law always comments on the lack of big bucks every year gun season...the northwoods are full of orange and you may need to get your feet wet and get remote, lots of work but is it worthwhile? I'd like to think so.

[Boogieman1]

Bump

[SplitG2]

Funny thing about the beast mode style of hunting was I kinda started doing it before I even realized it was a thing. I wouldn't say it's full beast mode like some of you guys on here but to an extent. Not because I am a so called great hunter but because I was kinda forced into it about 6-8 seasons ago due to a decrease in big buck sightings and a big decrease in doe numbers over a 3-4 year period. When I started it, quality went up and quanity stayed low and has continued to stay low and I am OK with that. I might not see the numbers I seen 10 years ago but I am seeing mature deer, quality mature deer at that and even if I don't get to throw an arrow, I at least got to observe a mature animal in his natural habitat doing what he does. IMO, Take the kill outta the hunting equation, just observing 5 mature bucks in their natural habitat in one season, watching them do what they do, will teach you more about deer, why deer do what they do and how to hunt them than seeing 100 immature deer in a season will ever teach you.

This might sound hard to believe but I went 17 straight days in November back in the 2012-2013 season with only a single sighting of a yearling doe on the 14th day of that stretch. But I stuck with it and knew I had the right setups and eventually it paid off.

[Weaver.b]

This will be my first year hunting beast style. I have hunted for over 10 years and have only seen one buck in the woods that id consider mature. And I killed him. I also have a nice 3.5 yr but other than those two bucks I have had terrible luck getting a good buck in front of me. I have been enlightened on many things from this forum and also Dans videos. Needless to say im due for some more buck action in the future and I am confident it will happen.

[BBH1980]

I'm glad to see this topic pop up. Last yr. I went to Dans for the Scouting workshop(travelled 12 hrs to go) and really comitted myself to trying beast style hunting. I busted my but finding beds and figuring them out, followed the beast posts,posted questions and really put forth an honest effort to hunt beast style and was strict on myself with my hunts. I was successful in finding some mature buck beds (or at least what I believe to be). I started a journal of the beds I found and when to hunt,entry routes etc. However, I really was discouraged that I just never got the big buck sightings I'd hoped for. I enjoyed every second of the scouting and hunting so I guess thats what matters but has kind of lowered my confidence coming into this yr(our season starts on saturday). This yr we moved to a home I plan to live in for the next 30 yrs and have permission to hunt several hundred acres including my own so I really have focussed on figuring out the general deer movement around home for now rather than focussing all my limited scouting time ( been a busy yr with 1 yr old and 1 month old sons) on finding beds..I have found a couple but like I said I just lack the confidence.Seeing this post makes me feel a little better. I've set a few stands on heavy trails but have gotten scarce mature buck pics on my cameras.I know they are there because I have a few pics and have physically seen them. Maybe I should post some maps and get everyones input on where to setup since its really too late to go in scouting for beds. I do want to hunt the bigger bucks even if it means seeing less deer but I think many guys propbably fall victim to the same discouragement I am. or maybe I'm doing something wrong...thoughts? opinions? can anyne relate? I'd sure like to decorate the new house with big mature buck I killed out back

Mr. Admiral we are not all that far apart in location...and no you are not alone. The mountains of Pennsylvania are a very different animal than Marshes of the midwest. Our land is different, the amount of large bucks is less, the ones that are alive are extremely educated...do they exist, oh I have no doubt about it, but they aren't something you see in the daytime. I have a very good friend who is the best big buck hunter I personally know. He hunted in Pennsylvania until 1999 (at which time we had 270,000) bowhunters, and moved to Minnesota where at the time they had 60,000 bowhunters...the difference he experienced was almost instant and he has produced a mature buck every year since he made that move...some of which are jaw dropping. He was able to get it done in PA hunting small pockets in suburbia but he will tell you right to your face that hunting in that area of the country and hunting here is night and day different.

When a mature buck of size is so rare, experience with them also become rare as are signs of them...this lack of information just lengthens your learing curve and lack of success which in turn discourages any person trying to learn anything. One thing I think any person who is hunting in the beast method will tell you is you have to hunt where big bucks call home....for us, we are just in the wrong state or at least the vast majority of it is.

I'm a few years late here but this thread is awesome! Like you guys I am in the mountains of PA.... Lol. I hunt private rolling farm and gamelands that are hill country.. some slopes to steep to climb. I discovered Dan about 3 months ago. I've scouted this year more than ever and have found things right where Dan says they should be. I will agree though.. I've been hunting here for 26+ years and anything over a 3 year old is pretty rare... Although I see things getting better year afrt year. Great to see other guys here in my area to share with !