A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilities

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DEERSLAYER
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A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilities

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:45 pm

Imagine this – yearling bucks with more than 200 inches of antler and adult bucks exceeding 500 inches (that’s larger than the current world record wild bull elk). While this may sound like fantasy land, it’s reality today in captive whitetail breeding facilities. These bucks are touted to have “superior” genetics due to their enormous, often grotesque antlers. The reality, however, is that these bucks are the product of many generations of inbreeding (their owners prefer the term “line-breeding”), with many “lines” so closely related that genetics experts have had to increase the normal number of DNA markers just so separate individual animals.

This industry, often referred to as the captive cervid industry, has quietly proliferated in recent years, largely under the veil of deer farming or alternative livestock. To be clear, I am referring specifically to confined deer breeding operations rather than all high-fenced hunting facilities, especially large, well-managed ones containing native deer. Current estimates suggest there are nearly 10,000 deer breeding operations in North America, and the states of Minnesota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and Wisconsin are each home to more than 500 such facilities. Their business model is simple – create a core group of “breeder bucks” from which semen straws and inseminated does can be sold to the highest bidder. Any bucks not worthy of breeder status are typically sold as “shooter” bucks to high-fenced hunting operations, often released just days before a “hunter” enters a “preserve” to collect his “trophy.” In general, the larger and more extreme a buck’s antlers, the higher its value and, thus, the smaller the “hunting” area required to ensure success.

Some argue this is an innocent endeavor with no negative impacts to wild deer or the everyday deer hunter/manager. As CEO of North America’s leading whitetail conservation organization with a mission to ensure a sustainable future for wild white-tailed deer, I emphatically and unapologetically disagree. Not only does this industry undermine the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, it threatens the health of wild deer and the public’s perception of hunting. In fact, just before this issue of Quality Whitetails went to press, Missouri joined the growing list of states with Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) in wild whitetails. Not surprising, the infected animals were discovered less than two miles from a captive whitetail facility that had previously tested positive for CWD. Coincidence? I think not. Similar discoveries have occurred in other states.

Despite the undeniable risks to wild deer and the future of hunting, the captive cervid industry is currently launching efforts to loosen regulations to enable expansion within or into many new states. In fact, at time of press, the QDMA was fighting captive cervid legislation and related efforts in seven states including Georgia, Indiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee and West Virginia. If you agree the health of wild white-tailed deer and the preservation of our deer-hunting heritage is more important than antlered freaks in pens, pick up the phone, write a letter, and get involved. Our association’s strength lies in our membership, and there is no more important time or place to demonstrate this strength than right now in the legislative halls throughout North America. This is a battle we simply can’t afford to lose.

Brian Murphy
CEO


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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby Stanley » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:03 pm

Those steroid freak bucks turn me off completely.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby Spysar » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:25 pm

I hate those kinds of places. It would help if SCI would quit recognizing these bucks as "trophy's".
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby Scot » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:09 am

I had begun to watch a program last night on the outdoor channel (I believe SCI sponsored) As soon as I realized it was high fence (there were many huge in velvet non typicals) I changed the channel. That stuff turns my stomach. I know as "hunters" we are supposed to stick together but I don't view that as hunting. You might as well go shoot a cow in a pasture.
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby jlh42581 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:20 am

Spysar wrote:I hate those kinds of places. It would help if SCI would quit recognizing these bucks as "trophy's".


Oh but remember they do more for hunters than P&Y. Not that I agree with P&Y's most recent action but this organization is a joke. They look out for people with big money with interest in pounding their chest. :snooty:
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby Stanley » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:35 am

Spysar wrote:I hate those kinds of places. It would help if SCI would quit recognizing these bucks as "trophy's".

I agree they are no more than a buck in a box.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby Stanley » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:38 am

jlh42581 wrote:
Spysar wrote:I hate those kinds of places. It would help if SCI would quit recognizing these bucks as "trophy's".


Oh but remember they do more for hunters than P&Y. Not that I agree with P&Y's most recent action but this organization is a joke. They look out for people with big money with interest in pounding their chest. :snooty:

Don't forget they cheapen the real trophies hunters have taken under fair chase with no organic compounds in the bloodstream.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby dan » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:33 am

They don't bother me at all... I really could care less as long as they treat the animals decently.
I think hunters spend far to much time arguing and fighting. I don't hunt deer in a pen, or raise deer for breeding, but could care less if someone else does. I don't hunt with a crossbow, but I could care less if someone else does. I don't bait but could care less if someone else does. Etc, etc... It shouldn't matter what other people do. What really matters is between each one of us, our ethical beliefs, and God.
I wish farms were not able to grow bucks bigger than Mother nature can, but they can. Does that really lesson my bucks on my wall? No... Because I could care less what anyone thinks of me other than my friends and family.
These farmers are growing bucks as big as they possibly can and thats whats offending some people. But really, is that different than managing ones land to achieve the biggest bucks possible, locking everyone out, and trying to keep all the bucks on, using fertilizer and minerals to grow "your" bucks as big as possible??? What about Lee and Tiffanys farms? Fair? I often have people tell me they only hunt public land. Should they go on a rant about peoples managed farms?
Your right, when they kill them, its in an enclosed area ( a pen ) they are not free ranging.
Thats the main reason it don't interest us... To me, the person who wrote the article is doing more damage to hunting than the farmers and shooters by referring to the shooters as hunters...
There are crippled people, busy people, people who just don't know how to get the job done, or maybe just those who want to see what its like when a world class buck comes walking into range.
If they want to do a "simulated hunt" What do I care?
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby blackwolf » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:20 am

Saw that SCI sponsored show, high fence out east somewhere. They sit in a blind,pick out a 200 plus buck and shoot it for big $$$. Turns me off, should not be considered "hunting" !!! Hard to believe that to some, this was a great hunt.
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby Haus86 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:09 am

It's the correlation between deer farms and CWD that bothers me.
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby Dewey » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:48 am

Scot wrote:I had begun to watch a program last night on the outdoor channel (I believe SCI sponsored) As soon as I realized it was high fence (there were many huge in velvet non typicals) I changed the channel. That stuff turns my stomach. I know as "hunters" we are supposed to stick together but I don't view that as hunting. You might as well go shoot a cow in a pasture.

I agree 100%

Not far from where I live there is a fenced operation where they fly in rich guys from all over the country to kill 170"+ bucks for $8,000-$10,000 each. I look at it as a playground for rich guys that wan't to call themselves hunters but don't have the time to do it themselves. Call it whatever you want but don't call it HUNTING.
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby UntouchableNess » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:53 pm

dan wrote:I really could care less.
It shouldn't matter what other people do.

My best friend raises and sells deer to "the evil canned hunts". He makes decent money doing it, enjoys watching the deer grow. He's quite enthusiastic about what he does, not that I share the same enthusiasm. My view is that he is dealing in livestock.

If people wanna raise livestock, I'm not going to pass judgement. Probably not going to join in, either.

As to CWD, the DNR comes out and he has to dart his deer so they can take tonsil biopsies. He faces a fair amount of regulation. It's the shady people who smuggle deer around that are the true problem. Sound familiar???? A few ruin it for the masses?
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:55 pm

dan wrote:They don't bother me at all... I really could care less as long as they treat the animals decently...

They don't.

dan wrote:...It shouldn't matter what other people do. What really matters is between each one of us, our ethical beliefs, and God....

I have met some people that sincerely thought it should be legal to shoot deer using a light so I can't agree.

dan wrote:...Because I could care less what anyone thinks of me other than my friends and family...

I don't think your being honest with yourself. When it comes to fulfilling your business dreams you need more than that.

dan wrote:...These farmers are growing bucks as big as they possibly can and thats whats offending some people. But really, is that different than managing ones land to achieve the biggest bucks possible, locking everyone out, and trying to keep all the bucks on, using fertilizer and minerals to grow "your" bucks as big as possible??? What about Lee and Tiffanys farms? Fair? I often have people tell me they only hunt public land. Should they go on a rant about peoples managed farms?...

I can't see intense, choreographed inbreeding and injecting steroids as the same.

dan wrote:...To me, the person who wrote the article is doing more damage to hunting than the farmers and shooters by referring to the shooters as hunters...

I thought he made it clear that they weren't really hunters by the use of his quotation marks.

dan wrote:...There are crippled people, busy people, people who just don't know how to get the job done, or maybe just those who want to see what its like when a world class buck comes walking into range.
If they want to do a "simulated hunt" What do I care?

Unfortunately, neither myself or anyone else gets to do everything we want in life. We just have to do what is within our means. I don't mean to sound heartless (in regards to crippled people getting a world class buck), but it's just reality.
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby Bigdaddy-yoyo » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:40 am

Unfortunately, neither myself or anyone else gets to do everything we want in life. We just have to do what is within our means. I don't mean to sound heartless (in regards to crippled people getting a world class buck), but it's just reality.[/quote]





So if it is with in some ones means to pay for a hunt, then they are wrong and you are right. It is all opinions........I have MS and have been flat

on my back for the last week. I have hunted my whole life since the age of 12. I have had this disease for 8 years now, has seriously changed

the way I can do things. Point I am trying to make is.....If I pay for a High fence hunt and have the means to do so then "who cares".......In what

way would that affect you? Or really be any of your buisness.....Really would only be your "opinion" ........I think that is really reality
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Re: A call to take a stand against antler breeding facilitie

Unread postby Bigdaddy-yoyo » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:50 am

After reading this when I posted it..... I am just trying to make a point of view for the other side of this issue. So if it sounds cranky then I apologize in advance.........Been in bed for a week...may be a little cranky :) :)


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