W2H w/ John Eberhart

[Perfectionitz]

When I first started hunting, my buddy told me to listen to John Eberhart and told me about scent control and all the steps I needed to take. I listened to his podcasts and read a bunch of his articles that first season. Bought all the sprays and the soaps and the detergents and the scent lock container and put my clothes on once I got in the woods... it seemed kind of ridiculous to me as I was doing it... I always felt that no matter how hard I’m trying to keep scent off these clothes, I’m still sweating like crazy and there’s no way I can really keep this stuff scent free. But what did I know, I was a 38 year old man who had never hunted before. I needed to listen to the guy with all the bucks on the walls that wrote all the articles and had all the dvds and who my buddy admired. I read a little about the wind, but it all seemed so complicated and I was just starting... seemed easier to wake up at 2 am and shower and change and spray and change again.... and what happened? The only buck I saw that season winded me...

That off season, I found the beast through listening to Dan’s podcast on The Big Buck Registry and it changed everything for me. It all made sense and seemed so natural. I became a fiend for any podcast Dan or any other Beast member did. I started paying attention to the wind and thermals and bedding and scouting and less on scrapes and rubs and scent control and trail camera pictures. What I liked about Dan was there were no absolutes. Bucks do this in this type of scenario... but not always... sometimes they do this...sometimes they do that... you have to be able to adapt, you have to be mobile, you have to observe, you have to play the wind, you have to work hard and be willing to do and go where the other guy won’t. I loved this! I told my buddy about everything I was learning... “you’re crazy. Don’t call me to help drag a deer out from that swamp...”

Last year when the scent control podcast came out with Dan and John, I felt like Dan owned the debate and Eberhart’s arguments seemed just crazy to me. I got some flak for some of the comments I made about it because I don’t have much experience and have only killed one deer and was critiquing a guy who had been putting mature animals on the wall for decades...

So when I saw Wired 2 Hunt did a podcast with him about mobile and saddle hunting today, I decided to have an open mind and give him another shot...
But soon into the podcast about hunting mobile I heard,
“My scent control is nearly perfect and I pay zero attention to the wind”
Ugch... dealing in absolutes... just completely turned me off... but, I told myself, be patient, keep listening, you can learn something if you keep an open mind...
“You can’t hunt mobile with a stand on your back and make it through the brush and swamps and marshes. It’s impossible.”
Ok, I turned it off. You lost me. I just can’t take the attitude and dealing in absolutes like that.

I love this site. I love the DVD’s. I love the YouTube videos. I love the hunting public guys and their passion for this style of hunting. I love the multitude of experience and suggestions and strategies and tactics. I love that we share a passion for working with what nature gives us with the wind and milkweed and the challenge it presents instead of trying to control it with suits and sprays and detergents and regimens.

I tried to have an open mind, but you know what I found...my mind has already been opened and I’m not willing to close the door again.

[Motivated]

Good post, but I hope it doesn't lead us down the rabbit hole.

So I'm about to channel my inner monk right now.

Many things in life lead us to a simple choice. A choice between striving for control and for seeking understanding and the proper relationship.

I can seek to control my wife or I can seek to understand her needs and establish a good and proper relationship with her. Same is true for my children. Same is true for people at work. And finally the same thing holds true for deer hunting, the wind and scent.

The man who seeks to control ends up wasting a lot of energy on things that don't matter. How many times have you yelled at your children not to slam that door because you paid for that door and you're screaming at the top of your lungs and you don't have a good relationship with them. If you're ever in that situation, I hope somewhere deep inside you can realize how ridiculous that is, and how broken your relationship is with your child. It's at that point you need to seek for understanding and try to build the proper relationship.

I'm not going to try to control my scent but I am going to try to understand the wind and where I need to be in my relationship with the wind. But I'm going to seek to understand how deer have relationship with the wind. And that's what I'm looking for regardless of whether or not I'm successful with respect to bringing home an animal.

What I'm not going to do is waste a lot of time working extremely hard on things that are not related to bringing me into nature more fully. I'm not going to shove charcoal down my underwear. I'm not going to buy a brand new washing machine. For me that's not what the hunt is about.

I want to understand, and I want to have the proper relationship.

[Boogieman1]

Good post! I have voiced my opinion on scent control numerous times so I won't get the rabbit hole going.

Just would like to say hunting is suppose to be fun! If your idea of fun is going through all that scent checklist, then by all means party down.

But to think it's a must or it will increase ones odds is just foolish to me. Think u will find a overwhelming majority of successful hunters here have fun and practice woodsmanship and Have zero problems getting a buck on the ground.

[headgear]

We often talk about learning what you can from someone and leaving the rest. Like you I heard of John before I found Dan, did the scent control stuff but was still easily busted by mature animals after thinking it worked but only with younger deer. John has a lot of great info in his books and other material if you can get past or skip over the scent control chapters some of his tactics and stories are not that far off from beast hunting and are very much worth your time.

John helped me to start spring scouting and going into those hard to get places long before I found the beast, that extra 5 years of scouting really helped the learning curve. I was able to look back at some of the land I walked and really put the pieces together much faster and figure out buck bedding because I already knew the land and had a lot of intel to point me at the right places to find those mature bucks.

[wolverinebuckman]

I am in the knowledge gathering phase of my hunting career. I want to learn to be a better hunter. I am trying to gather the useful information that I can apply to my hunting that will help to achieve that. Leaning to play the wind, as hunters have been doing for a millennia, is how I want to grow, not relying on expensive clothing or bottles of potion.
I have listened to many W2H podcasts, and enjoyed many of the guests. I feel the best way to grow is to gain wisdom from multiple sources, and have gained tips from those who do not have this style of hunting. Having said that, I turned off the first podcast John E. was on a very short way in. Mainly, it had to do with his attitude. I also don't like that he openly knocks (and mocks) this style of hunting. He isn't the kind of personality I'm looking to grow from. I probably won't listen to this latest podcast.

[cantfoou]

He's for sure a great hunter, no matter his opinion on scent. I have taken some nuggets years ago from him. I don't buy into all his scent control, but do respect him as a hunter. I have to say tho, every interview or article he has done in the last ten years is the same couple things over and over. it's all one dimensional, which to me is the worst way to be about hunting.

[First Sit]

John hunts primarily 25-30 ft in trees I'm sure that has a lot to do with where his wind is setting up. He might not be as scent free as people think but his wind isnt settling down to where the deer can smell it for quite some distance from his set up. Even Dan had quite a few deer down wind this season that didn't react doing nothing.

[Dewey]

Both Dan and John killed a pile of huge bucks and it's obvious both have a high level of knowledge. Their hunting techniques couldn't be more different yet in the end they both have plenty of success to show for. This is proof there is no one single way to kill a buck. I followed John for many years before finding Dan and admit I was a scent free fanatic for many years but in the end I found Beast style hunting to be much better suited for how I hunt. Doesn't mean I totally discounted everything I learned from John instead I molded it all together to create my own style of hunting along with everything else I learned over the years.

[headgear]

Their hunting techniques couldn't be more different

Reading about many of John's kills I can't help but think he was keyed on a bucks bedding and core areas in the same way dan does. Many of his kills came via waders and hunting some small islands or nasty thick cover, I just can't think of anything other than a bedding area when I think of those places. They for sure are very different but I see a lot of similarities too.

[Grizzlyadam]

I agree with the op. I did listen to it all though and took away few good things. One take away that I agreed with most was having about 40 different spots ready to hunt and bounce around depending on food, does, pressure etc. That takes lots of scouting and experience. Limit the pressure on those spots and don't hunt them until the time is right. That's a biggie.

A lot of his statements on noise when setting up a stand were just plain wrong. Impossible to set up a climber or hang on without making noise, nonsense. Screw in steps make no noise, nonsense. Can't get through thickets with a stand, nonsense. If someone hunts with a saddle all the time, i could see it may make them a little less proficient at using a climber or hang on without making any noise. You need to practice a lot to become very comfortable with your equipment to use it most effectively. The saddle does sound tempting however. I'm definitely open to giving it a try

He mentioned hanging his jacket in the tree while changing layers. To me it seems that would negate being scent free even if it's just for a short window of time while changing. Human scent is going to be released doing that. Being near bedding and not having the perfect wind while changing an article of clothing seems like a great way to release some human odor and compromise a hunt if the claim to be totally scent free is what you are known for.

Either way, the guy succeeds at killing mature bucks on a regular basis so whatever he is doing is working for him, his particular methodology may not exactly be the recipe for success with everyone else though. So many different variables for different hunters that there is no one size fits all.

[Dewey]

Their hunting techniques couldn't be more different

Reading about many of John's kills I can't help but think he was keyed on a bucks bedding and core areas in the same way dan does. Many of his kills came via waders and hunting some small islands or nasty thick cover, I just can't think of anything other than a bedding area when I think of those places. They for sure are very different but I see a lot of similarities too.

I was speaking more about scent control. Should have specified that. Obviously I already knew John hunts buck core staging areas and stuff other hunters avoid. In that regard they hunt the same even though John openly discredits hunting single buck beds.

[First Sit]

They both bring a lot to the table as far as knowledge and proven track records of success. They are both willing to share how to hunt real world mature whitetails. To me anyone that has consistant success doing something is doing something right even if its different that what someone else is doing. I've leared a lot from both Dan and John. Just look at some of Andre's methods most people would think hes nuts for bumping bucks outa beds intentionally but he gets it done. You can't argue with results.

I don't think its a matter of who is better just different styles of hunting that still get it done. I do disagree with some statements John made and I can't say the same about Dan. However a lot of the tactics John uses really are real world ways to put nice bucks in the dirt.

[bass28]

The scent control position is one thing I found very refreshing about Dan's stuff. I started collecting scent control garments after listening to some of Johns stuff but then abandoned it when I found the beast last fall.

Worrying about the wind rather than trying to control my scent just clicked with me. After all, growing up my dad always tried to ingrain that in me when hunting and somewhere along the way I quit doing it. My dad was a smoker and I can remember hiking to his position at the end of the day I could smell smoke when I was downwind and I thought "how does he shoot anything'. But he did and its because he watched his wind in relation to the direction the deer would approach.

I am a big fan of The Hunting Public guys also. I chuckled at their latest video podcast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--tKchHo4Dk) around 27:36 when they talk about scent and say "We don't worry about scent at all'. I can relate :).

[PUBLICbowhunter]

I like John and I think he knows what hes doing but his scent control regiment is insane.

[Jonny]

It’s impossible to find success copying others work. Nobody can replicate what John does, and nobody can do exactly what dan does. Just isn’t possible.

The best hunters are the ones who have their own style, and take tidbits from others and make themselves better hunters. They also offer this info so others can do the same.

All of the great hunters on this site who consistently get on and kill big bucks, are all very different if you look at it right. The guys who struggle are the guys who fail to find their own hunting style. And unfortunately, too many don’t understand that.

Tale what you can from others, and use the missing pieces to write your own story. I don’t like people who just copy everything. Take and learn from others and do something unique to yourself, now you have my attention.

Think of everybody here who consistently gets on and kills big deer. They all have something special that they do, and others don’t.