52 Wolves in First Day

Wolf, Coyote, Fox, Cats, Callings, Behaviors, Hunting Stories, Pictures, Tactics, Q&A.
  • Advertisement

HB Store


User avatar
headgear
500 Club
Posts: 11625
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:21 am
Location: Northern Minnesota
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby headgear » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:14 am

Dewey wrote:
john1984 wrote:https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/content/articles/deer-news/more-deer-killed-by-wolves-than-by-hunters-in-2019

Good article John. I especially like the timeline. Really gives perspective to what we have been dealing with for so many years. It’s been an uphill battle no doubt.


I don't know that this is as dramatic as they make it sound. The wolf range is mostly in forested low deer density areas anyway, the hunter population isn't all that thick to begin with because the hunting has been poor for ten years but is picking up again. Lets just say in my little corner of wolf country our permit section shot 866 deer in 2019. This area is 1650ish square miles, if we go 7 deer psm you are looking at 11550 deer. If the wolves are taking a 1/10 of the population and we are about the same you can see it is mostly fear tactics and over 80% of the deer will survive us and the wolves. I think a hard winter could easily beat hunters and wolves but a huge margin and I see that as a much bigger population influence over wolves, in fact I have lived it far too often. Hard to catch a break up here, although this winter has been nice and mild after 3 long hard winters with deep snow. Only way to go is up! :lol:


User avatar
ThePreBanMan
500 Club
Posts: 2630
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:36 pm
Location: Fairhaven, MA
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:23 pm

Lockdown wrote:PreBanMan, I’m not going to dig for the article, but years ago I read about a study the MN DNR did regarding moose mortality. They have a war against white tails in this state and I’ll never understand why. Their claim was that the increasing whitetail population and the brain worm they carry was a significant factor for the declining moose population.

I distinctly remember the #1 factor for moose mortality was wolf predation on calves.

I have a friend who hunts up north and he said he sees more wolf tracks than deer tracks.


That's not evidence though, it's conjecture and perception... Wolves will cover more ground... So they'll put down more sign. They can cover up to 60 miles in a single day with 30 miles being the average.... Your average deer covers less than 3 and during the rut maybe as many as 6 miles.. The point being, wolves are going to be laying down a lot more sign by way of covering at least 10x the ground on average per day.
User avatar
ThePreBanMan
500 Club
Posts: 2630
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:36 pm
Location: Fairhaven, MA
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:27 pm

headgear wrote:
Dewey wrote:
john1984 wrote:https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/content/articles/deer-news/more-deer-killed-by-wolves-than-by-hunters-in-2019

Good article John. I especially like the timeline. Really gives perspective to what we have been dealing with for so many years. It’s been an uphill battle no doubt.


I don't know that this is as dramatic as they make it sound. The wolf range is mostly in forested low deer density areas anyway, the hunter population isn't all that thick to begin with because the hunting has been poor for ten years but is picking up again. Lets just say in my little corner of wolf country our permit section shot 866 deer in 2019. This area is 1650ish square miles, if we go 7 deer psm you are looking at 11550 deer. If the wolves are taking a 1/10 of the population and we are about the same you can see it is mostly fear tactics and over 80% of the deer will survive us and the wolves. I think a hard winter could easily beat hunters and wolves but a huge margin and I see that as a much bigger population influence over wolves, in fact I have lived it far too often. Hard to catch a break up here, although this winter has been nice and mild after 3 long hard winters with deep snow. Only way to go is up! :lol:



To boot... wolves hunt year-round... humans, not so much... Wolves have to hunt, successfully to eat... Hunters can and do pass deer they're not looking for... It's not really a fair comparison.
User avatar
Uncle Lou
Moderator
Posts: 10306
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:32 pm
Location: Holly, MI
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:18 pm

Too many wolves = less game animals and money to manage the greater population of wildlife. Seasons = long term viability of all wildlife
Silence Your Gear with Stealth Strips®
http://www.stealthoutdoors.com
User avatar
Lockdown
Moderator
Posts: 9957
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:16 pm
Location: MN
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby Lockdown » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:31 pm

ThePreBanMan wrote:
Lockdown wrote:PreBanMan, I’m not going to dig for the article, but years ago I read about a study the MN DNR did regarding moose mortality. They have a war against white tails in this state and I’ll never understand why. Their claim was that the increasing whitetail population and the brain worm they carry was a significant factor for the declining moose population.

I distinctly remember the #1 factor for moose mortality was wolf predation on calves.

I have a friend who hunts up north and he said he sees more wolf tracks than deer tracks.


That's not evidence though, it's conjecture and perception... Wolves will cover more ground... So they'll put down more sign. They can cover up to 60 miles in a single day with 30 miles being the average.... Your average deer covers less than 3 and during the rut maybe as many as 6 miles.. The point being, wolves are going to be laying down a lot more sign by way of covering at least 10x the ground on average per day.


Tracks alone aren’t the tell all, but what does an abundance of moose calve carcasses mean then? I’m interested in hearing what you feel killed them. Mind you, the DNR claimed wolves were the culprit. So that is your hint to the correct answer ;)
User avatar
Tim H
500 Club
Posts: 2806
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:37 am
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090396597022
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby Tim H » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:55 pm

Lockdown wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
Lockdown wrote:PreBanMan, I’m not going to dig for the article, but years ago I read about a study the MN DNR did regarding moose mortality. They have a war against white tails in this state and I’ll never understand why. Their claim was that the increasing whitetail population and the brain worm they carry was a significant factor for the declining moose population.

I distinctly remember the #1 factor for moose mortality was wolf predation on calves.

I have a friend who hunts up north and he said he sees more wolf tracks than deer tracks.


That's not evidence though, it's conjecture and perception... Wolves will cover more ground... So they'll put down more sign. They can cover up to 60 miles in a single day with 30 miles being the average.... Your average deer covers less than 3 and during the rut maybe as many as 6 miles.. The point being, wolves are going to be laying down a lot more sign by way of covering at least 10x the ground on average per day.


Tracks alone aren’t the tell all, but what does an abundance of moose calve carcasses mean then? I’m interested in hearing what you feel killed them. Mind you, the DNR claimed wolves were the culprit. So that is your hint to the correct answer ;)


Oh I think I know the answer!! Pick me, pick me!! :lol:
User avatar
ThePreBanMan
500 Club
Posts: 2630
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:36 pm
Location: Fairhaven, MA
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:22 pm

Lockdown wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
Lockdown wrote:PreBanMan, I’m not going to dig for the article, but years ago I read about a study the MN DNR did regarding moose mortality. They have a war against white tails in this state and I’ll never understand why. Their claim was that the increasing whitetail population and the brain worm they carry was a significant factor for the declining moose population.

I distinctly remember the #1 factor for moose mortality was wolf predation on calves.

I have a friend who hunts up north and he said he sees more wolf tracks than deer tracks.


That's not evidence though, it's conjecture and perception... Wolves will cover more ground... So they'll put down more sign. They can cover up to 60 miles in a single day with 30 miles being the average.... Your average deer covers less than 3 and during the rut maybe as many as 6 miles.. The point being, wolves are going to be laying down a lot more sign by way of covering at least 10x the ground on average per day.


Tracks alone aren’t the tell all, but what does an abundance of moose calve carcasses mean then? I’m interested in hearing what you feel killed them. Mind you, the DNR claimed wolves were the culprit. So that is your hint to the correct answer ;)


I would be inclined to defer to the state agency tasked with wildlife management. To the extent of my knowledge, no one else has wildlife biologists in the field...

That said, I find it interesting that you're willing to accept their explanation and even cite them as a source when it fits your narrative, but discard their population estimates, management plans, and overall competence when they have something to say that doesn't fit your narrative.... :think:
User avatar
BRoth82
500 Club
Posts: 906
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:00 am
Location: Southern MN
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby BRoth82 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:11 pm

ThePreBanMan wrote:
Lockdown wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
Lockdown wrote:PreBanMan, I’m not going to dig for the article, but years ago I read about a study the MN DNR did regarding moose mortality. They have a war against white tails in this state and I’ll never understand why. Their claim was that the increasing whitetail population and the brain worm they carry was a significant factor for the declining moose population.

I distinctly remember the #1 factor for moose mortality was wolf predation on calves.

I have a friend who hunts up north and he said he sees more wolf tracks than deer tracks.


That's not evidence though, it's conjecture and perception... Wolves will cover more ground... So they'll put down more sign. They can cover up to 60 miles in a single day with 30 miles being the average.... Your average deer covers less than 3 and during the rut maybe as many as 6 miles.. The point being, wolves are going to be laying down a lot more sign by way of covering at least 10x the ground on average per day.


Tracks alone aren’t the tell all, but what does an abundance of moose calve carcasses mean then? I’m interested in hearing what you feel killed them. Mind you, the DNR claimed wolves were the culprit. So that is your hint to the correct answer ;)


I would be inclined to defer to the state agency tasked with wildlife management. To the extent of my knowledge, no one else has wildlife biologists in the field...

That said, I find it interesting that you're willing to accept their explanation and even cite them as a source when it fits your narrative, but discard their population estimates, management plans, and overall competence when they have something to say that doesn't fit your narrative.... :think:



I grew up north of grand rapids and hunted mostly in the BWCA area. We used to see 2-3 bull moose in a 4 day hunt and very few wolf tracks, the deer hunting was really good, then we started to see less and less moose and fewer deer but way more wolf tracks. You can't tell me that it's a coincidence that happened.

Think about the predators that can take down a moose calf, you really only have bears and wolves, well the bear population has decreased, so that leaves the other one left.
User avatar
purebowhunting
500 Club
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:37 am
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby purebowhunting » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:11 pm

BRoth82 wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
Lockdown wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
Lockdown wrote:PreBanMan, I’m not going to dig for the article, but years ago I read about a study the MN DNR did regarding moose mortality. They have a war against white tails in this state and I’ll never understand why. Their claim was that the increasing whitetail population and the brain worm they carry was a significant factor for the declining moose population.

I distinctly remember the #1 factor for moose mortality was wolf predation on calves.

I have a friend who hunts up north and he said he sees more wolf tracks than deer tracks.


That's not evidence though, it's conjecture and perception... Wolves will cover more ground... So they'll put down more sign. They can cover up to 60 miles in a single day with 30 miles being the average.... Your average deer covers less than 3 and during the rut maybe as many as 6 miles.. The point being, wolves are going to be laying down a lot more sign by way of covering at least 10x the ground on average per day.


Tracks alone aren’t the tell all, but what does an abundance of moose calve carcasses mean then? I’m interested in hearing what you feel killed them. Mind you, the DNR claimed wolves were the culprit. So that is your hint to the correct answer ;)


I would be inclined to defer to the state agency tasked with wildlife management. To the extent of my knowledge, no one else has wildlife biologists in the field...

That said, I find it interesting that you're willing to accept their explanation and even cite them as a source when it fits your narrative, but discard their population estimates, management plans, and overall competence when they have something to say that doesn't fit your narrative.... :think:



I grew up north of grand rapids and hunted mostly in the BWCA area. We used to see 2-3 bull moose in a 4 day hunt and very few wolf tracks, the deer hunting was really good, then we started to see less and less moose and fewer deer but way more wolf tracks. You can't tell me that it's a coincidence that happened.

Think about the predators that can take down a moose calf, you really only have bears and wolves, well the bear population has decreased, so that leaves the other one left.


Wolf predation on bear is high, which is probably why you saw the bear population decrease. Wolves kill bear while hibernating, saw it a lot in the UP of Michigan when I lived there.
User avatar
headgear
500 Club
Posts: 11625
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:21 am
Location: Northern Minnesota
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby headgear » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:59 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:I would be inclined to defer to the state agency tasked with wildlife management. To the extent of my knowledge, no one else has wildlife biologists in the field...

That said, I find it interesting that you're willing to accept their explanation and even cite them as a source when it fits your narrative, but discard their population estimates, management plans, and overall competence when they have something to say that doesn't fit your narrative.... :think:


To be fair the MN DNR did a moose study when the population was crashing and the wolves were responsible for about half of all moose deaths. However that was during a time when the deer population was crashing hard and we had an insane numbers of wolves around here. Most things have balanced out a bit since then, moose and deer are slowly coming back.
User avatar
Tim H
500 Club
Posts: 2806
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:37 am
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090396597022
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby Tim H » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:05 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:
Lockdown wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
Lockdown wrote:PreBanMan, I’m not going to dig for the article, but years ago I read about a study the MN DNR did regarding moose mortality. They have a war against white tails in this state and I’ll never understand why. Their claim was that the increasing whitetail population and the brain worm they carry was a significant factor for the declining moose population.

I distinctly remember the #1 factor for moose mortality was wolf predation on calves.

I have a friend who hunts up north and he said he sees more wolf tracks than deer tracks.


That's not evidence though, it's conjecture and perception... Wolves will cover more ground... So they'll put down more sign. They can cover up to 60 miles in a single day with 30 miles being the average.... Your average deer covers less than 3 and during the rut maybe as many as 6 miles.. The point being, wolves are going to be laying down a lot more sign by way of covering at least 10x the ground on average per day.


Tracks alone aren’t the tell all, but what does an abundance of moose calve carcasses mean then? I’m interested in hearing what you feel killed them. Mind you, the DNR claimed wolves were the culprit. So that is your hint to the correct answer ;)


I would be inclined to defer to the state agency tasked with wildlife management. To the extent of my knowledge, no one else has wildlife biologists in the field...

That said, I find it interesting that you're willing to accept their explanation and even cite them as a source when it fits your narrative, but discard their population estimates, management plans, and overall competence when they have something to say that doesn't fit your narrative.... :think:


Awe come on he gave you the answer! :lol:
User avatar
ThePreBanMan
500 Club
Posts: 2630
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:36 pm
Location: Fairhaven, MA
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:44 am

headgear wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:I would be inclined to defer to the state agency tasked with wildlife management. To the extent of my knowledge, no one else has wildlife biologists in the field...

That said, I find it interesting that you're willing to accept their explanation and even cite them as a source when it fits your narrative, but discard their population estimates, management plans, and overall competence when they have something to say that doesn't fit your narrative.... :think:


To be fair the MN DNR did a moose study when the population was crashing and the wolves were responsible for about half of all moose deaths. However that was during a time when the deer population was crashing hard and we had an insane numbers of wolves around here. Most things have balanced out a bit since then, moose and deer are slowly coming back.


Mother nature is perfect in her design. It's only when humans start to try to manage things, that things get screwed up.
User avatar
Dewey
Moderator
Posts: 36706
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:57 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby Dewey » Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:24 am

P&YBuck1
500 Club
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:37 pm
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby P&YBuck1 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:53 am

Sorry but look at Isle Royal, touted as the perfect balance between wolf vs prey and look what happened. Yes it is a small sample size but it was touted to show how nature kept things in balance.

Also, you never hear of this with wolves? Disease they can spread not only to themselves but livestock, humans, etc. Why do they tell people to stay out of wintering yards and leave deer, elk, etc. alone due to stress. A wolf is not going to stop. A wolf is a year round predator that needs to kill to survive period. They will keep killing until disease or lack of game takes their numbers down.

Bottom line, we 'man' have taken up prime habitat of many animals so we need to try and do our part as stewards of the land. We don't mind wolves but they need to be controlled, so we are not wiping them out. Remember the 'science' that we get shoved down our throats has two sides to it, can't just listen to the controlled narrative science that is out there... Oh ya, and use a little common sense since most of us spend more time in the environment of these animals then our so called digital experts.

All we ask is balance and honesty since told they told us we would only allow 250-350 wolves in Wi.
Bowhunting Brian
500 Club
Posts: 4134
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:13 am
Status: Offline

Re: 52 Wolves in First Day

Unread postby Bowhunting Brian » Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:11 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:
headgear wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:I would be inclined to defer to the state agency tasked with wildlife management. To the extent of my knowledge, no one else has wildlife biologists in the field...

That said, I find it interesting that you're willing to accept their explanation and even cite them as a source when it fits your narrative, but discard their population estimates, management plans, and overall competence when they have something to say that doesn't fit your narrative.... :think:


To be fair the MN DNR did a moose study when the population was crashing and the wolves were responsible for about half of all moose deaths. However that was during a time when the deer population was crashing hard and we had an insane numbers of wolves around here. Most things have balanced out a bit since then, moose and deer are slowly coming back.


Mother nature is perfect in her design. It's only when humans start to try to manage things, that things get screwed up.

Also, our forefathers laid down great groundwork for the future of this country only to have the democrats and liberals go against it and aid in the demise of this once great country. What a shame.


  • Advertisement

Return to “Predator Hunting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests