If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby dan » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:26 am

kenn1320 wrote:
Getting back to human scent, and advancing our thoughts on it, I also believe deer can recognize an individual humans scent and remember it. Just like tests I have seen where a tracking dog goes to a trail 20 people walked down and tracks only the one individual he is supposed to, deer to can isolate one persons scent. Probably even better than a dog.
So that explains w hy the farmer who never hunts gets away with getting close to deer while out in his fields while the hunter who has had many run ins with the deer has issues... Or better yet, why one deer might not be alarmed by your scent, but the next deer might freak. He may have dealt with you in the past.


While I have no doubt we each smell different, I am going to be skeptical that the deer put certain individuals into a harmless category versus danger category. Using your logic Dan, why not purposely go visit your hunting area often all season to condition the deer that you are not a threat? I think the farmer see's more deer cause he is there more often. Also if deer see your doing something non alarming and they can watch you for awhile and determine this, they might lower their guard a bit and show themselves. Its the guy wearing camo and trying to be sneaky that startles them and sends them into the next county. That being said I was setting up a camera on the edge of a field in my casual work clothes and a deer up wind of me about 200yds away on the other edge of the field did the positive identify danger snorts. I never saw that deer, but obviously it saw me. Down wind of me about 325yds I saw a doe standing there looking at me, wondering what I was doing. If I did that same thing daily, those deer would get conditioned to me, but to think a mature buck would accept me and come closer, no way.

Good point Ken,
I believe they may fear all humans as you pointed out, but I think they are capable of fearing one individual more than others.

Take bear hunting for example. I know of many incidences where a guide has been baiting a spot for a long time and the bear comes in and tolerates his scent, but a couple days before the hunt, the hunter shows up and takes over baiting. The bear then sometimes dissapears or becomes nocturnal.... It happens to often to be coincidence.

Deer use there nose like we use our eyes... Think about this, you see a dog and it growls and approachs growling. The next time you see that dog, you are going to avoid it.... Even if all loose dogs scared you, the one that acted like he was going to attack, or acvtually did would get your attention the most.


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kenn1320
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby kenn1320 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:37 am

Good point Ken,
I believe they may fear all humans as you pointed out, but I think they are capable of fearing one individual more than others.


Yeah apparently ALL Mature bucks know my scent and fear me to the point of leaving the county. :lol:

Take bear hunting for example. I know of many incidences where a guide has been baiting a spot for a long time and the bear comes in and tolerates his scent, but a couple days before the hunt, the hunter shows up and takes over baiting. The bear then sometimes dissapears or becomes nocturnal.... It happens to often to be coincidence.


Dan the situation you describe could very well be true, but to prove/disprove the theory you would have to have the "guide" sit over that bait, not just drop it off. The bears going nocturnal or avoiding the bait could very well just be winding the hunter sitting by the bait. To take this one step further for some food for thought, which hunter(s) are more successful, the ones who hunt a fresh, first sit in the stand, or the one who hunts the same old stand every day all season? We both know the answer, so Id have to ask, why don't the deer get use to his smell and resume using the area cause he has never posed a threat?
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby headgear » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:48 am

I think that is a solid theory Dan. A buck will still fear farmer joe but after seeing and smelling him day after day he learns he might not pose as much of a threat as say a guy who smells like a serial killer and is intruding on his bedroom.

I also think deer can be conditioned to not fear humans under the right conditions, this would be hard to accomplish with free range mature bucks but it's hard not to notice this on some of the hunting shows these days. You know the ones I'm talking about, you don't even have to ask if they are high fence, the guys just drive or walk these trails of open woods and stumble upon buck after buck bedded down here or there.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby dan » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:53 am

The case with the bears, I was careful not to say the hunter "hunted" the stand, but the cameras showed a distinct change in bear activity after the hunter visited the bait spot...
I don't think any deer gets conditioned unless its tame, enough to tolerate human scent from anyone in there bedding area... Interesting conversation.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby Zap » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:36 am

I believe deer can distinguish between "normal" non threatening activity and hunting, especailly urban deer.
Most animals learn by association.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby Schultzy » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:47 am

Dan the situation you describe could very well be true, but to prove/disprove the theory you would have to have the "guide" sit over that bait, not just drop it off. The bears going nocturnal or avoiding the bait could very well just be winding the hunter sitting by the bait.


The case with the bears, I was careful not to say the hunter "hunted" the stand, but the cameras showed a distinct change in bear activity after the hunter visited the bait spot...
I don't think any deer gets conditioned unless its tame, enough to tolerate human scent from anyone in there bedding area... Interesting conversation.
Good example Dan. I too have said this for years. Everything Is true here Kenn on what Dan said about bears. This Is something I always worry about when I'm bear hunting and a new buddy shows up and checks baits with us. Saw It many times where the bear goes 100% nocturnal on us. Whether or not deer are the same way I'm not sure. Good conversation all.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby kenn1320 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:56 am

Ive watched many bears on TV look right up at the hunters and not care. They also walk completely around them and then still hit the bait many times. Hard to rationalize what the bear is thinking, but if you guys have seen them shut down at the hint of a "new human" then they have associated the "guide" with food. That being said, would it be safe for that guide to go sit in the woods, since those bears associate him with food? :o
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby dan » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:47 am

kenn1320 wrote:Ive watched many bears on TV look right up at the hunters and not care. They also walk completely around them and then still hit the bait many times. Hard to rationalize what the bear is thinking, but if you guys have seen them shut down at the hint of a "new human" then they have associated the "guide" with food. That being said, would it be safe for that guide to go sit in the woods, since those bears associate him with food? :o

Some of the bears your watching on TV are in areas of Canada where they don't fear humans as much, and some are looking at the blob in the tree. People still shoot bears when a guide baited, I am just saying that I have seen a lot of bears, especially mature boars shut down on new human scent... I am also "assuming" a deer would associate that differance.
I do believe the guide, or baiter, would indeed have an easier time killing a bear than a new hunter.
I am not sure if they are associating the "guides" scent with food. Probably they have more learned to tolerate that scent. At 1st the bears are leary. They build up the courage to come in during daylight despite the human scent. Once a new human is introduced it seems to reintroduce that fear...
I had a guide in Noerthern Minnesota 3 or 4 years ago, we had about a dozen hunters. His baits were getting pounded. He was new to guiding but did "ok" hunting bears. When we got to camp he insisted several of us see every bait site. I was dead set against it but he insisted. Was not my camp and I could not stop him. That was the day before the opener.
NO ONE shot a bear... Not one person in two weeks of hunting....
When I went up and hunted the same area the very next year with no guide. Bears were seen every single sit. Most suits produced multiple bears. I think a lot of it had to do with that guides perception of human scent not mattering.
I am sure Shultzy can back that up... He hunts that same area and it gets a ton of pressure.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby Schultzy » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:50 am

Great post, couldn't agree more Dan.

Kenn,

You have to remember that most bear hunting shows are filmed In Canada. Canada has 100 times more bear then we do here In Minnesota. Whether or not the guide or hunter Is hunting the bait up there chances are the bear Is coming In no matter what. Lots of bears up there, their hungry and their coming In no matter what. It's called competition amongst the bear, something everyone would love to have. Totally different hunting up there and much easier In most cases.

Bear almost always look at you when they come Into a bait. I can only think of a couple who haven't In the 20+ years of hunting these critters. Last year my bear I shot did not look at me, one of the few who didn't.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby kenn1320 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:35 am

I have zero knowledge of bears guys, just trying to make heads or tails of the scent topic. I'm not calling you guys liars, I just don't believe you. :lol: J/K that's a saying I always thought was funny.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby dan » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:44 am

kenn1320 wrote:I have zero knowledge of bears guys, just trying to make heads or tails of the scent topic. I'm not calling you guys liars, I just don't believe you. :lol: J/K that's a saying I always thought was funny.

Its a great conversation that really got us thinking... You and I both learn from asking. Great hunters always take everything with a grain of salt. ;) Your good with me.
I never really applied what happens with bears and bait to deer until you made me think about it.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby kenn1320 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:05 am

You and I both learn from asking


Exactly Dan. Its not that I'm questioning what you or others say, I'm just trying to understand what your saying. Asking questions helps me get a handle on the topic. If I don't agree, I'll tell ya. Unfortunately there are more times then not that posts come across different then intended.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby NatureBoy » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:53 am

76chevy wrote:scent lok was proven to be a scam, anyone who still buys this stuff or buys into the idea of activated carbon eliminating scent is a fool in my opinion


That ruling was overturned in favor of ScentLok, August 19th, 2011.
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby Indianahunter » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:14 am

NatureBoy wrote:
76chevy wrote:scent lok was proven to be a scam, anyone who still buys this stuff or buys into the idea of activated carbon eliminating scent is a fool in my opinion


That ruling was overturned in favor of ScentLok, August 19th, 2011.


What about the blood hound test video?
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Re: If Human Scent Dosen't Matter....

Unread postby kenn1320 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:51 am

What about the science behind "reactivating" carbon and needing a minimum of 900c , that is not achievable with a dryer and if it could, it would catch the suit on fire.
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