world record?

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Re: world record?

Unread postby tim » Sat May 14, 2011 8:26 am

im not a big fan of the scoring system but since its there i agree with bucky, it looks like a common base. this story along with the zaft buck if you notice when the articles came out they both shyed away from showing pictures of these racks from the outside, the zaft buck was a common base also, i too would like to see the world record in wisconsin, but since this is the system they go by i say common base, its definately different than the others anyone can see it doesnt project the same as the others. therei s a buck in the 190's in the b/c books right now from newyork i believe that has a monster common base and they accepted that, if i was the guy from wisconsin, i would refer to this buck, it has like a 13 inch spread (im going on memory from a photo quite a few years ago) but when i seen it i thought who did this guy pay off to enter it as a clean typical , especially when they have a hared time with less obvious bucks.


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Re: world record?

Unread postby tim » Sat May 14, 2011 8:32 am

on another note this is a question for dan, if i remember right i thought once you said that andrae dacquisto's "tuning fork" buck was accepted as a typical 12. in my opinion from pictures this is definately not a typical 12, those tuning fork tines in my opinion at least from looking at pictures appear to be common abas and misalligned. (thats if my memory serves me i thought it was considered typical ) . but here again if that buck was consiered typical than there is no question in my mind that buck from wisconsin is typical and a big injustice (or cover up) :lol:
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Re: world record?

Unread postby Dewey » Sat May 14, 2011 10:49 am

Just read the complete article in Deer & Deer Hunting magazine. :evil:

In my opinion the guy got shafted and enough people very experienced with scoring B & C bucks came to the same conclusion. Why not let the buck be panel scored and let a majority decide rather than just Reneau. I understand he has the final say if the rack can be panel scored and understand the procedure but I don't neccesarily agree with it. The way the rules are written that G-3 is not an abnormal point and the buck should be scored as a 6x6 not as a 5x5.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sat May 14, 2011 5:54 pm

I remember seeing a picture when he first shot it and they claimed it would be a new world record typical. When I seen it I thought, those points better not be allowed to be scored as typical!!! Those points are clearly abnormal. That said, IF Reneau has final say regardless of what the other panel judges decide then why waste time, money and create bad publicity for the club if you already know the outcome? However, if he can be out voted by the other judges then yes, the guy is getting the shaft. He should be allowed to have it panel scored. Either way it's something I will never have to deal with. Even if I was lucky enough to shoot the world record I doubt that I would enter it.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby Dewey » Sat May 14, 2011 6:22 pm

This is the buck we are speaking of. I never saw this picture before and compared to the Deer & Deer Hunting magazine pictures this one shows a better view. I don't know now.............that is a tough call and glad I wasn't responsible for that decision. Doesn't make any difference though because no matter what he scores that is one awesome buck and he should feel very privileged to have killed such a fine whitetail. Too bad King already sold the rack.........but that's another subject!!! :?

Image

Here is the latest..............good to hear their side!!

King Buck Response King Buck Response
May 10, 2011
The Johnny King Buck:

Setting the Record Straight --

In light of a recent article in Deer and Deer Hunting by Duncan Dobie about Johnny King's typical whitetail deer, the Boone and Crockett Club's Records Committee would like to clarify our position. I would first like to note that it is important to understand that neither Jack Reneau, Director of Big Game Records, nor any member of the committee has a vested interest in the specific score of this or any other trophy, other than to see that it is accurately scored in accordance with the Club's guidelines. The declaration of any new World's Record is a welcomed celebration for the Club, game managers, and dedicated sportsmen.

We are concerned with the misinformation being presented in the article. After speaking with Jack Reneau, I found that he was misinterpreted regarding a possible rule change. What has been printed does not reflect what he was trying to convey. He said with the high and increasing volume of whitetail deer entries, we are seeing abnormalities that are not addressed in the scoring manual. These can present challenges to the Official Measurers. The right G3 on the King buck presents just such an abnormality. This situation came to light under the term of the Club's previous Records Chairman and was written up in the winter issue of Fair Chase Magazine in 2000. Reneau was merely pointing out that it is an issue that had not been directly addressed in the Official Measuring manual, but has been the subject of much discussion.

The King buck, while an exceptional specimen, was determined to have an abnormal right G3. This was confirmed, independently, by four highly experienced Boone and Crockett Club Official Measurers. Each of the scorers involved in this examination were senior measurers with both Pope and Young Club and Boone and Crockett Club. They have served on numerous Judges Panels for both organizations. After the four measurers made their determination, the trophy purchaser/promoter questioned the decision. Jack Reneau reviewed the file with other Big Game Records staff and the Records Committee members who also all concurred with the ruling.

Due to a liberalization of the entry requirements a few years ago, this damaged buck is eligible for entry even though the main beam had been shot off. The original Official Measurer's judgment that the buck needed review by Boone and Crockett Club to see if it could be officially scored and entered with the broken main beam was correct.

The purchaser/promoter of the rack has repeatedly requested that a panel re-score the deer. The criteria for panel scoring are 1) to confirm a new top-ten trophy entry or 2) to confirm a new World's Record entry. Neither being the case, no panel will be convened. The original entry score of 180 points is accurate.

In conclusion, Boone and Crockett Club is well aware of what can be at stake when antler buyers, agents, promoters, and endorsement seekers weigh in on scoring, and we will remain vigilant to maintain the integrity of Big Game Records, with fairness to all trophies and all trophy owners. In doing so, the Club will not let any individual or group modify the rules to favor a specific trophy above others. The King buck was withdrawn by the hunter from our records program. It is in no way a pending World's Record, nor subject to revision. It can be re-entered at anytime by the owner with a typical score of 180 points.

Richard T. Hale
Deputy Vice President
Records of North American Big Game Committee
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Re: world record?

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sun May 15, 2011 7:45 am

That is the same buck I'm talking about. I don't remember where I seen the picture, but it wasn't mounted.

Like you said though, regardless of score it's an awesome buck.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby PEAKRUT » Mon May 16, 2011 11:42 am

It's their club rules but with that being said I still think it is a bunch of crap.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby Buckfever » Mon May 16, 2011 1:22 pm

I think that when you look at it from the outside, it looks like more than 50% of the g3 is coming off the G2. I think there's no way that they can clearly say that it's not a common base.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby dan » Sun May 22, 2011 11:21 am

Even if I was lucky enough to shoot the world record I doubt that I would enter it.

Thats like saying if I won the lottery I wouldn't turn in the ticket...

this is a question for dan, if i remember right i thought once you said that andrae dacquisto's "tuning fork" buck was accepted as a typical 12. in my opinion from pictures this is definately not a typical 12, those tuning fork tines in my opinion at least from looking at pictures appear to be common abas and misalligned.

Not sure, but i think it was a 10 frame with 2 abnormal points. I can't recall if the bases were close? I think it scored around 179 by my scoring, but another (official) scorer came up with around 190. I am not sure what it actually ended up scoring and I do not have any of the pictures... There might be one on Andraes sight ( www.lonewolftv.com )
Not sure
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Re: world record?

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sun May 22, 2011 11:37 am

dan wrote:Thats like saying if I won the lottery I wouldn't turn in the ticket...

If you understood why I said that I think you would understand and possibly agree.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby dan » Sun May 22, 2011 12:28 pm

DEERSLAYER wrote:
dan wrote:Thats like saying if I won the lottery I wouldn't turn in the ticket...

If you understood why I said that I think you would understand and possibly agree.


I have had my share of issues over shooting big bucks... So I understand, and don't put mine in the bucks either... But world record? Unless you already have to much money, yes, I would still dissagree with that statment.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby tenpoint » Sun May 22, 2011 9:54 pm

I think the King buck is getting screwed by a guy who cant addmitt he might of made the wrong call! Numerous other scorers have stated it should be scored as a typical, so why cant B&C at the very least have a vote by a panel of scorers to see how it should be scored.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby tenpoint » Sun May 22, 2011 10:17 pm

tenpoint wrote:I think the King buck is getting screwed by a guy who cant addmitt he might of made the wrong call! Numerous other scorers have stated it should be scored as a typical, so why cant B&C at the very least have a vote by a panel of scorers to see how it should be scored.

Oooops! didnt see the response from B&C above, on how they did have a panel look at the deer.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby tenpoint » Sun May 22, 2011 10:25 pm

tenpoint wrote:
tenpoint wrote:I think the King buck is getting screwed by a guy who cant addmitt he might of made the wrong call! Numerous other scorers have stated it should be scored as a typical, so why cant B&C at the very least have a vote by a panel of scorers to see how it should be scored.

Oooops! didnt see the response from B&C above, on how they did have a panel look at the deer.


Its sad to say but like many others, I would not enter a deer into the record books either. It is impossible to compete with all the deer farmers like the Drury brothers or the Lakoskys. QDM turned into deer hording and trophy management, not what it was intended to be.
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Re: world record?

Unread postby Dewey » Mon May 23, 2011 4:14 am

tenpoint wrote:
tenpoint wrote:
tenpoint wrote:I think the King buck is getting screwed by a guy who cant addmitt he might of made the wrong call! Numerous other scorers have stated it should be scored as a typical, so why cant B&C at the very least have a vote by a panel of scorers to see how it should be scored.

Oooops! didnt see the response from B&C above, on how they did have a panel look at the deer.


Its sad to say but like many others, I would not enter a deer into the record books either. It is impossible to compete with all the deer farmers like the Drury brothers or the Lakoskys. QDM turned into deer hording and trophy management, not what it was intended to be.

That's why it would be so satisfying to see an average "joe" place a trophy in the record books instead of these so called "pros".


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