Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
User avatar
muddy
Posts: 8478
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:04 am
Location: Hawkeye State of Mind
Status: Offline

Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby muddy » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:58 am

These are pics of the deer my daughter shot. The entrance is on the right side, and appears to be a perfect shot. The exit is slightly back, obviously a slight quarter too shot. She barely grazed the heart, as seen from the pic, and there was practically zero blood. If I hadn't heard the "WHOP" of the bullet hitting I'd have said it was a clean miss. Zero blood for 70 yards and then I found a few drops. I followed that until I heard brush snapping and saw the antlers "lolling around" as the buck lay there dying. I would say I watched him 15-20 minutes before I was confident he was down and snuck back to get stuff packed up and let him die in peace.

Just discussing the oddity of such a great shot placement and how a new hunter might have written it off as a miss. If the deer had been 100% broadside I am guessing she'd have blown his heart in half. A few inches up, thru the aorta. Moral of my story is my daughter needs to aim mid body a bit more and save dad some pondering and frustration.

I have been looking at deer anatomy pics and think the angle caused the bullet to graze the tip of the heart and barely went under the lowest lobe of the lung and just by the stomach? The heart was very VERY deeply bruised so figure cardiac arrest killed him because of the lack of blood outside and internally.

Thoughts?
20201005_071526.jpg
20201005_074424.jpg
20201001_202049.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


http://www.iowawhitetail.com
Leading the way for habitat and management information

"It's a good thing you don't need commas and colons to kill deer" -seaz
ODH
500 Club
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:53 am
Location: New York
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby ODH » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:14 am

Does it seem like that bullet didn’t expand?
User avatar
muskieman
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:20 am
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby muskieman » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:27 am

Muddy, I shot my buck last year at 30 yards slight quartering to. Clipped heart, took out lung and liver. He ran 180 yards onto neighbor property. We had a little snow left so blood would have showed. There was zero blood till last 20 yards. We just kind of grid searched... My dad kept asking if I was sure I hit him. I was sure and saw hole in him instantly after shot.... It was a 12 gauge Hornady and exit would proved it did open up. Craziest thing how far that deer went and literally no blood.
Loppy
Posts: 185
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:14 am
Location: SE Wisconsin
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby Loppy » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:45 am

I was just talking about this. I shot an 8 pointer a few years ago. He was less than 20 yards away and it was a clean pass thru. He went about 40-50 yards to a high spot in the marsh and i saw him flip over backwards. I waited for my cousin to get done hunting and we went back to go get him. I had where he was standing marked and we couldnt find any blood. My cousin ask if i sure i hit him. I told him i hit him right thru the chest. We searched a bit more and still no blood. I finally said I know where he is lets just go to him. When I was dressing him out i could see a perfect broad head "star" right thru the middle of his heart. We were surprised there was no blood. I went back the next day in the light out of curiosity, and there was virtually no blood trail. I could never quite figure that out.
User avatar
muddy
Posts: 8478
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:04 am
Location: Hawkeye State of Mind
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby muddy » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:47 am

No idea if the bullet expanded. I had to switch bullets last week as she missed a buck twice. When I went to the range the pattern was all over the place. These were Barnes bullets. I love them for everything due to their expansion and my sons deer bled EVERYWHERE. The new bullets were Leverevolution bullets and though they pattern GREAT I've never been impressed with Hornady bullets and their blood trails.

I have a couple weeks time before I can take my 3rd kid back out so I will likely hit th range again and take more time with the Barnes.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com
Leading the way for habitat and management information

"It's a good thing you don't need commas and colons to kill deer" -seaz
User avatar
muddy
Posts: 8478
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:04 am
Location: Hawkeye State of Mind
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby muddy » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:49 am

Loppy wrote:I was just talking about this. I shot an 8 pointer a few years ago. He was less than 20 yards away and it was a clean pass thru. He went about 40-50 yards to a high spot in the marsh and i saw him flip over backwards. I waited for my cousin to get done hunting and we went back to go get him. I had where he was standing marked and we couldnt find any blood. My cousin ask if i sure i hit him. I told him i hit him right thru the chest. We searched a bit more and still no blood. I finally said I know where he is lets just go to him. When I was dressing him out i could see a perfect broad head "star" right thru the middle of his heart. We were surprised there was no blood. I went back the next day in the light out of curiosity, and there was virtually no blood trail. I could never quite figure that out.


I've had several heart shot deer barely bleed. I think the skin around the heart area moves quite a bit when they're running and doesnt allow the blood to empty out.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com
Leading the way for habitat and management information

"It's a good thing you don't need commas and colons to kill deer" -seaz
dan
Site Owner
Posts: 39049
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:11 am
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HuntingBeast/?ref=bookmarks
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby dan » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:53 am

a lot of the time, and especially with early season deer with a lot of fat, i dont find a blood trail till 50 or 60 yards out. i remember a friend shooting a 10 pointer he was after and crying the blues that he missed. He shot it with a 12 gage right underneath him and thought he missed because there was no blood despite the low exit... im his defense the deer took two jumps and looked back at him before running off... I insisted I go look at the scene cause i was convinced he did not miss at 10 yards... no blood untill it got 40 yards or so and entered a thicket. heavy blood for ten yards snd there he lay. Heart was blown to pieces by that slug
User avatar
PK_
500 Club
Posts: 6466
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:10 am
Location: Just Off
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby PK_ » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:59 am

Lack of blood internally is interesting.

I have had great shots, even double lung leave no blood trail. With bow, muzzleloader and rifles. Almost always in that crease right behind the shoulder, many times stopping the deer artificially. I always equated it to being a lot of overlap in hide and/or the scapula sliding over the wound channel. I always had tons of blood in cavity though. Very interesting and I do think a lot of deer are killed cleanly and chalked up to a miss or non-fatal hit due to lack of immediate blood.
No Shortcuts. No Excuses. No Regrets.
Everybody's selling dreams. I'm too cheap to buy one.
Rich M wrote:Typically, hunting FL has been like getting a root canal
strehb18
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:34 am
Location: Eastern WI
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby strehb18 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:57 am

Most of the good shots where I don't see blood are generally not pass throughs. With a bullet, you'd hope the shock of the bullet would damage more even if it doesn't expand just from the speed of the bullet. I tracked a buck last year shot below the heart that you'd think was right on the money, but the penetration was poor.
Rich M
500 Club
Posts: 3065
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:29 pm
Location: Sunny Florida
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby Rich M » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:14 am

Some great blood trails have been shots with only an entrance hole.

The only one I've seen with just a single drop of blood - my BIL blew a doe's heart to burger and she ran 100 yards into dense pines, no blood. Found it by starting where she did and following every trail in, finally tripped over her. No blood, it was the weirdest thing but the pump wasn't operational, so no pressure to push it out.

That might be the deal there - the fatal grazing of the heart stopped it and the pump was still, no pump, no flow...
User avatar
muddy
Posts: 8478
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:04 am
Location: Hawkeye State of Mind
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby muddy » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:21 am

Rich M wrote:Some great blood trails have been shots with only an entrance hole.

The only one I've seen with just a single drop of blood - my BIL blew a doe's heart to burger and she ran 100 yards into dense pines, no blood. Found it by starting where she did and following every trail in, finally tripped over her. No blood, it was the weirdest thing but the pump wasn't operational, so no pressure to push it out.

That might be the deal there - the fatal grazing of the heart stopped it and the pump was still, no pump, no flow...


That's an interesting theory.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com
Leading the way for habitat and management information

"It's a good thing you don't need commas and colons to kill deer" -seaz
User avatar
oldrank
Posts: 5612
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:32 am
Location: USA
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby oldrank » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:31 am

You shocked the heart and it stopped beating. Probably went into fibrillation.
A5BLASTER
500 Club
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:12 am
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby A5BLASTER » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:43 am

muddy wrote:These are pics of the deer my daughter shot. The entrance is on the right side, and appears to be a perfect shot. The exit is slightly back, obviously a slight quarter too shot. She barely grazed the heart, as seen from the pic, and there was practically zero blood. If I hadn't heard the "WHOP" of the bullet hitting I'd have said it was a clean miss. Zero blood for 70 yards and then I found a few drops. I followed that until I heard brush snapping and saw the antlers "lolling around" as the buck lay there dying. I would say I watched him 15-20 minutes before I was confident he was down and snuck back to get stuff packed up and let him die in peace.

Just discussing the oddity of such a great shot placement and how a new hunter might have written it off as a miss. If the deer had been 100% broadside I am guessing she'd have blown his heart in half. A few inches up, thru the aorta. Moral of my story is my daughter needs to aim mid body a bit more and save dad some pondering and frustration.

I have been looking at deer anatomy pics and think the angle caused the bullet to graze the tip of the heart and barely went under the lowest lobe of the lung and just by the stomach? The heart was very VERY deeply bruised so figure cardiac arrest killed him because of the lack of blood outside and internally.

Thoughts?20201005_071526.jpg20201005_074424.jpg20201001_202049.jpg


Best way to never have that happen again is to stop shooting them in the vitals and shoot them in the high shoulder/spine. Takes out the cns and they drop on the spot.
User avatar
muddy
Posts: 8478
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:04 am
Location: Hawkeye State of Mind
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby muddy » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:46 am

A5BLASTER wrote:
muddy wrote:These are pics of the deer my daughter shot. The entrance is on the right side, and appears to be a perfect shot. The exit is slightly back, obviously a slight quarter too shot. She barely grazed the heart, as seen from the pic, and there was practically zero blood. If I hadn't heard the "WHOP" of the bullet hitting I'd have said it was a clean miss. Zero blood for 70 yards and then I found a few drops. I followed that until I heard brush snapping and saw the antlers "lolling around" as the buck lay there dying. I would say I watched him 15-20 minutes before I was confident he was down and snuck back to get stuff packed up and let him die in peace.

Just discussing the oddity of such a great shot placement and how a new hunter might have written it off as a miss. If the deer had been 100% broadside I am guessing she'd have blown his heart in half. A few inches up, thru the aorta. Moral of my story is my daughter needs to aim mid body a bit more and save dad some pondering and frustration.

I have been looking at deer anatomy pics and think the angle caused the bullet to graze the tip of the heart and barely went under the lowest lobe of the lung and just by the stomach? The heart was very VERY deeply bruised so figure cardiac arrest killed him because of the lack of blood outside and internally.

Thoughts?20201005_071526.jpg20201005_074424.jpg20201001_202049.jpg


Best way to never have that happen again is to stop shooting them in the vitals and shoot them in the high shoulder/spine. Takes out the cns and they drop on the spot.


Maybe for an adult, but for my kids I'm going to keep hammering shooting for the lungs. Larger target area and less meat wastage.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com
Leading the way for habitat and management information

"It's a good thing you don't need commas and colons to kill deer" -seaz
A5BLASTER
500 Club
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:12 am
Status: Offline

Re: Entrance/Exit no blood discussion

Unread postby A5BLASTER » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:24 am

muddy wrote:
A5BLASTER wrote:
muddy wrote:These are pics of the deer my daughter shot. The entrance is on the right side, and appears to be a perfect shot. The exit is slightly back, obviously a slight quarter too shot. She barely grazed the heart, as seen from the pic, and there was practically zero blood. If I hadn't heard the "WHOP" of the bullet hitting I'd have said it was a clean miss. Zero blood for 70 yards and then I found a few drops. I followed that until I heard brush snapping and saw the antlers "lolling around" as the buck lay there dying. I would say I watched him 15-20 minutes before I was confident he was down and snuck back to get stuff packed up and let him die in peace.

Just discussing the oddity of such a great shot placement and how a new hunter might have written it off as a miss. If the deer had been 100% broadside I am guessing she'd have blown his heart in half. A few inches up, thru the aorta. Moral of my story is my daughter needs to aim mid body a bit more and save dad some pondering and frustration.

I have been looking at deer anatomy pics and think the angle caused the bullet to graze the tip of the heart and barely went under the lowest lobe of the lung and just by the stomach? The heart was very VERY deeply bruised so figure cardiac arrest killed him because of the lack of blood outside and internally.

Thoughts?20201005_071526.jpg20201005_074424.jpg20201001_202049.jpg


Best way to never have that happen again is to stop shooting them in the vitals and shoot them in the high shoulder/spine. Takes out the cns and they drop on the spot.


Maybe for an adult, but for my kids I'm going to keep hammering shooting for the lungs. Larger target area and less meat wastage.


Why not teach them better marksman skills instead and let them see their animal drop in place and not have the mental stress hit them when they watch their deer run off after a vital hit.

And the high shoulder/ spine shot for a cns kill is the same size as a deer heart. So same size kill zone.


  • Advertisement

Return to “Deer Hunting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests