OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

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Pudster
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby Pudster » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:43 am

SEMObowhunter wrote:I’ve ran into this a ton with county assessor’s (tax) maps. It’s the old flat picture, round surface, issue. I was a surveyor and we had every type of map available, as well as gps systems that cost $100k. It’s not ONX fault. My goodness you are paying taxes on property that doesn’t show correctly on county maps. Your phone gps, or any other public use gps isn’t that accurate either, and by accurate I mean drive a 60D nail as a control point three inches under the dirt, shoot it with gps, go back in five years and find it again accurate. You can’t mark boundary lines with a handheld, and you can’t trust aerial overlays either as they are shot with plane, camera, and reference points on the ground. I’ve done a ton of this work and there are correction factors for everything to try and be as accurate as possible. So best course is to use best judgement and don’t push the limit if you think you are close and the line isn’t defined. There will normally always be some sort of indication that you have went from public to private. At least where I live. Old fences, timber cut lines, as well as USFS boundary signs. The MDC marks every line as well. I just don’t want ONX to get a rundown as they provide an awesome tool I think that is as accurate as what the public is allowed to have. I don’t even pay for the extra I just like having the topo and aerial on same screen with ability to mark locations.

Just my two cents.

Good points, my thinking is that our land (public) should be clearly marked. We shouldnt have to wonder where "our" land is. Kansas and Nebraska public, even the mfl is so well marked ray charles could navigate it without a problem. Wisconsin not so much, even with all the tools it can be a blury line.


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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby john1984 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:55 am

I wonder what kind of penalties a person could get for posting public land as private . If there are any. :think:
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby Abishai » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:54 am

jkelley1487 wrote:Good stuff guys. I wonder how often OnX updates landowners? There’s several properties In Indiana that were sold a year or so ago that still lists the old owners.


Not too often in some places. At my parent's house, we bought land about 25 years ago and it still has the old property owner we purchased from on the app. I know the boundaries too, and they're pretty accurate, but the owner information is not.

I bought a house in May of this year and I'm not yet reflected on the property I purchased. I know that's a quick turnaround, but I think it's not unreasonable to expect extensive map updates with boundaries and owner info every 1-2 years at the latest. 25 years gives them plenty of time to fix it. :?
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby MichiganMike » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:28 am

john1984 wrote:I wonder what kind of penalties a person could get for posting public land as private . If there are any. :think:

I think it would be a pretty stiff fine. People used to do that all the time on federal land in Michigan I know. No hunting signs etc. Next year you go through there and the signs would be gone. Someone called the DNR on them Im sure.
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby rhinoblake » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:05 am

These are all great lessons and things to keep in mind. Just to speak to the inaccuracies of county maps and overlays. I bought a residential lot a couple years ago. When I viewed the lot on the county’s GIS and other mapping options it showed my property line had the neighbors driveway on it. This kind of stuff happens all the time and usually allows the rightful owner pretty decent trades especially if there is something like 20 yards of concrete already installed.
Long story short I had it surveyed and every county GIS available to look at was incorrect.
Another story...this was way back in the sticks where I am from originally. Another example of modern GIS maps being off quite a bit. My greedy family decided to survey my great grandfather’s property that was given to them for free. They wanted to “subdivide” etc to make more money. Well it backfired, the property surveyed close to 75 acres smaller and they also found that property had been divided into two separate tracks with no access to conjoin them. I laughed, a lot.
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby Horizontal Hunter » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:33 pm

john1984 wrote:I wonder what kind of penalties a person could get for posting public land as private . If there are any. :think:


I see it often here. If you are lucky an EPO will come out and take the signs down.

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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby mauser06 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:01 pm

OnX definitely isn't an end all. My personal property lines are off. And I bought the place 3 years ago and my name still doesn't show. Previous owners do!



I have NEVER seen public land that didn't have a marked boundary. Maybe it happens? But Painted trees, posts, signs, placards, etc are typically used. Heck, I know of several public land entities that but up to each other. They BOTH mark the same boundaries.


I haven't looked at every piece of public in every state....but they are typically marked. Never found one that wasn't.



The federal gov especially....they are almost definitely going to clearly mark what is theirs! Lol.




OnX kinda cracks me up with the whole "used by such n such" as a sales pitch. It probably IS used by all kinds of officials....but not for boundary line issues or marking.
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby bbrad24 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:47 pm

Hi Guys and Gals, I'm new here, but I came across this and thought I'd give my .02. I work for a county as a GIS "professional". I draw property lines based off of legal descriptions on deeds, and sometimes have the help of property boundary surveys, from Registered Land Surveyors. I can tell you this, some county maps are going to be more accurate than others, and accuracy can vary quite a bit within any given county (sometimes 100s of feet). There are a variety of reasons that cause this. I often explain it this way to people, each legal description on a deed for a property is like a puzzle piece that makes up the entire county. It is a puzzle where the pieces don't fit perfectly...sometimes poorly.

OnX acquires our data periodically. However, our county charges a hefty fee for the data, which I'm sure limits their ability to afford paying to update it regularly. Some counties offer their data for free, I would assume OnX is more up to date with those counties. They are trying to tackle something very large, by acquiring a LOT of different county's parcel map layers across the country, which may come in a variety of data formats. Also, there are counties that don't have the resources to create/maintain GIS maps, which may lead to more outdated info.

For more up to date property owner info, go to a county's GIS map, or call the county if you still question it. If you truly want to know where a boundary line is, a Registered Land Surveyor is the only person qualified to determine that (at least in Minnesota).

Hope someone finds this useful.

Brad
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby MichiganMike » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:42 am

bbrad24 wrote:Hi Guys and Gals, I'm new here, but I came across this and thought I'd give my .02. I work for a county as a GIS "professional". I draw property lines based off of legal descriptions on deeds, and sometimes have the help of property boundary surveys, from Registered Land Surveyors. I can tell you this, some county maps are going to be more accurate than others, and accuracy can vary quite a bit within any given county (sometimes 100s of feet). There are a variety of reasons that cause this. I often explain it this way to people, each legal description on a deed for a property is like a puzzle piece that makes up the entire county. It is a puzzle where the pieces don't fit perfectly...sometimes poorly.

OnX acquires our data periodically. However, our county charges a hefty fee for the data, which I'm sure limits their ability to afford paying to update it regularly. Some counties offer their data for free, I would assume OnX is more up to date with those counties. They are trying to tackle something very large, by acquiring a LOT of different county's parcel map layers across the country, which may come in a variety of data formats. Also, there are counties that don't have the resources to create/maintain GIS maps, which may lead to more outdated info.

For more up to date property owner info, go to a county's GIS map, or call the county if you still question it. If you truly want to know where a boundary line is, a Registered Land Surveyor is the only person qualified to determine that (at least in Minnesota).

Hope someone finds this useful.

Brad


Great info! thank you for that.
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby hunter_mike » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:35 am

bbrad24 wrote:Hi Guys and Gals, I'm new here, but I came across this and thought I'd give my .02. I work for a county as a GIS "professional". I draw property lines based off of legal descriptions on deeds, and sometimes have the help of property boundary surveys, from Registered Land Surveyors. I can tell you this, some county maps are going to be more accurate than others, and accuracy can vary quite a bit within any given county (sometimes 100s of feet). There are a variety of reasons that cause this. I often explain it this way to people, each legal description on a deed for a property is like a puzzle piece that makes up the entire county. It is a puzzle where the pieces don't fit perfectly...sometimes poorly.

OnX acquires our data periodically. However, our county charges a hefty fee for the data, which I'm sure limits their ability to afford paying to update it regularly. Some counties offer their data for free, I would assume OnX is more up to date with those counties. They are trying to tackle something very large, by acquiring a LOT of different county's parcel map layers across the country, which may come in a variety of data formats. Also, there are counties that don't have the resources to create/maintain GIS maps, which may lead to more outdated info.

For more up to date property owner info, go to a county's GIS map, or call the county if you still question it. If you truly want to know where a boundary line is, a Registered Land Surveyor is the only person qualified to determine that (at least in Minnesota).

Hope someone finds this useful.

Brad



:D Thank you!
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby hunting_dad » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:13 am

Camofire has some On X premium ( 1 state ) and elite (all 50 states) memberships on sale today FYI
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby szwampdonkey » Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:02 am

On the opposite end of the spectrum i know of a small public spot bordering Conservancy land that leads into a large public Marsh. Its DEFINITELY public as i confirmed with the DNR several years ago after the neighboring landowner drove up to me and my father with his 4 wheeler telling us its his land we were on and we were trespassing. Guy was super confrontational/aggressive and REMARKABLY drove his wheeler out to the road to get the plates on my truck and called the sheriff stating he was just out hiking and we threatened to shoot him and bury him in the swamp! Guy is clearly an .

Luckily, we went right to the DNR station to report the guy after this incident and they stated they were VERY familiar with this guy and have had numerous complaints. The story was, per the warden, this guy was essentially using this 40 acres or so of public land as his own. He had it all set up with 4 wheeler trails, jumps, etc and was even storing old rusted out cars and trucks on it. The DNR fined the out of him and forced him to move all the trash off the property. He actually took the DNR to court to try and prove the land was his as he had been using it as such for 20 years or so, squatters rights or something of that nature, but he lost.

This guy has now taken to taking down the Public Land signs and putting up No Trespassing signs all around this property EVERY year since this incident and continues to put notes on my truck stating things like im on private land, my truck will be towed, no parking on this section of road, etc etc. We report the signs and the DNR comes out and takes them all down and puts up new public hunting signs but of course he denies being the one doing this. This is ongoing but we still hunt it, as others are as well now d/t Onyx making it more visible to the general public than years past. IMO he wins if we stop using it and being the clear he is i refuse to be run off public land my taxpayers dollars paid for.

There are always two sides of the story when dealing with property boundaries.
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby szwampdonkey » Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:05 am

mauser06 wrote:OnX definitely isn't an end all. My personal property lines are off. And I bought the place 3 years ago and my name still doesn't show. Previous owners do!



I have NEVER seen public land that didn't have a marked boundary. Maybe it happens? But Painted trees, posts, signs, placards, etc are typically used. Heck, I know of several public land entities that but up to each other. They BOTH mark the same boundaries.


I haven't looked at every piece of public in every state....but they are typically marked. Never found one that wasn't.



The federal gov especially....they are almost definitely going to clearly mark what is theirs! Lol.




OnX kinda cracks me up with the whole "used by such n such" as a sales pitch. It probably IS used by all kinds of officials....but not for boundary line issues or marking.



There are unsavory land owners known to take down public land signs to suit their own needs. I speak from experience. Im also aware of several lands owned by either the Nature Conservancy, a County Land Conservancy, or the County Park system where i live that allow hunting. None of those lands are posted you have to use their maps to find the boundaries and they match up exactly with what Onx shows.
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby Wlog » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:31 am

Dewey wrote:OnX obviously has issues but the moral of the story is if you even think your close to private be on the safe side and keep your distance especially if the boundaries aren’t clearly marked. I can totally understand landowners getting upset when guys keep hunting right on their property line. Even when I know exactly where the line is I still keep at least a 100 yard buffer if possible. When you hunt right on property lines your just asking for trouble. It’s good to leave some room for error especially if a wounded deer heads towards the private. Not saying anybody was wrong here just stating how I approach things myself. Creates much less headaches in the long run.


Not sure if others notice this where they hunt but a lot of the deer end up bedding right around the property borders. It’s like your example, public hunters want to stay 100 yards off, landowner doesn’t want to be too close to the public, now Theresa 200 yard void where the deer hole up. I see it on just about every public area I scout.
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Re: OnX inaccuracies and landowner altercations

Unread postby Buckbreath » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:07 am

bbrad24 wrote:Hi Guys and Gals, I'm new here, but I came across this and thought I'd give my .02. I work for a county as a GIS "professional". I draw property lines based off of legal descriptions on deeds, and sometimes have the help of property boundary surveys, from Registered Land Surveyors. I can tell you this, some county maps are going to be more accurate than others, and accuracy can vary quite a bit within any given county (sometimes 100s of feet). There are a variety of reasons that cause this. I often explain it this way to people, each legal description on a deed for a property is like a puzzle piece that makes up the entire county. It is a puzzle where the pieces don't fit perfectly...sometimes poorly.

OnX acquires our data periodically. However, our county charges a hefty fee for the data, which I'm sure limits their ability to afford paying to update it regularly. Some counties offer their data for free, I would assume OnX is more up to date with those counties. They are trying to tackle something very large, by acquiring a LOT of different county's parcel map layers across the country, which may come in a variety of data formats. Also, there are counties that don't have the resources to create/maintain GIS maps, which may lead to more outdated info.

For more up to date property owner info, go to a county's GIS map, or call the county if you still question it. If you truly want to know where a boundary line is, a Registered Land Surveyor is the only person qualified to determine that (at least in Minnesota).

Hope someone finds this useful.

Brad

Thanks little brother


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