Arrow tune?

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Quest1001
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Quest1001 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:11 pm

Thanks for all the input guys!!

I will work more on what was mentioned above tomorrow. I know it could be splitting hairs but I want to be confident in my system and it drives me crazy not knowing why something is happening and not knowing how to fix it.


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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Bowonly » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:17 pm

The shop's answers sound questionable.

A stiff arrow will tune.

Are you sure you're not getting fletching contact on the bottom vane that's kicking it tail high?

If no contact, find a way to move the rest up. The trouble with moving the loop is you're changing your peep height as well. If it comes to that, set the rest in the middle of its adjustment range and start over.
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:38 am

Bowonly wrote:The shop's answers sound questionable.

A stiff arrow will tune.

Are you sure you're not getting fletching contact on the bottom vane that's kicking it tail high?

If no contact, find a way to move the rest up. The trouble with moving the loop is you're changing your peep height as well. If it comes to that, set the rest in the middle of its adjustment range and start over.



I would NOT recommend moving the rest.

1st thing I would do - READ THE MANUAL for the bow. It will tell you where to position the rest. This typically means that the arrow shaft will be center-aligned wit the Berger holes that the rest screws into in the riser. From there adjust for vertical tears by moving the nock point up/down. Don't move the rest. Leave it where the manufacturer tells you to.

For horizontal - align the rest square to the riser using a laser center shot tool. Something like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
You can also eyeball it by taking another shaft and holding it flush against the riser. Then look down from above the bow and position the rest so that the arrow is perfectly parallel to the shaft held against the riser. Now adjust for horizontal tears via YOKE tune. Do not move the rest.

Shoot bear shafts at about 22' through paper and see where you're at. Use more than one bare shaft. I recommend trying 3. Sometimes you'll have 1 shaft that may behave a bit differently then the others so you don't want that to throw you off. You can dial that in with a nock tune, but that comes later. Shoot multiple times to account for variances in YOU. You're not a machine. So you don't want to trust the results of a single shot. Make sure your observations are repeatable before you start moving things around on the bow. High-quality arrows don't have the issue nearly as much as mid-range or low bargain bin arrows. Shoot the best arrow you can afford. Higher quality arrows have less run out, more spine consistency and less weight differences between shafts. That's huge for accuracy. This is all about consistency after all.

You want to make sure your spine is on point. You can tune out the effects of being a little on the stiff side, but not egregiously so. All bets are off if you're spine is too weak. But that's not the issue here.


OP:
If you really want to do your own tuning you're going to need a bow press and a draw board. You can't yoke tune, check timing, etc. without them. Also, IMHO - if your rest is cranked as high as it will go and you still can't get rid of a vertical tear, you have other issues going on. Most arrow rests will be in the middle of their adjustment range when set to the bow manufacturer's specifications. So your nock point is either way off, or your bow is out of time. Most bow shops will "time" a bow by just lining up the marks on the cams with the cables. This is in no way goo enough IMHO. You need to put it on a draw board and observe at full draw. It's of the utmost importance that the cable/limb stops hit at the same time! I've seen bows where the cables will be "between the marks" at rest, but the stops were a 1/2 inch apart at full draw. This can happen if some combination of your control cable, string and buss cable are the wrong lengths - necessitating you press the bow and add/remove twists to lengthen/shorten them. Those marks are only a starting point, and a reference point to start from after changing the strings. They also provide a reference as to where the cams should rest when the bow is not at full draw. But they should not be taken to mean that the bow is in time. That can only be verified at full draw. Again - read the manual! It will tell you this.
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Bowhunting Brian » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:02 am

Find a new shop. Seems like the one you're going to isn't helping you.
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Quest1001 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:21 am

Update: I decided to go to another shop. I explained what was happening and showed them the paper results. He release the limb driver and put an arrow in. The angle was way off. The nock point too high and he said the arrow was resting way too far above the burger hole.

We started over adjusting the sight down until 1/3 Bottom of arrow was covering the burger hole. Then reset the nock point and finally adjusting the peep sight to a natural point of alignment.

Shot down range and felt great. We did a few shots on paper and two minor adjustments later nice bullet holes.

This will be my go to shop moving forward with any issues. It’s quite the drive to get out there but the results are worth it.

Finally I have some peace of mind. Thanks for everyone’s input, I didn’t really know where to go to get answers.
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Trout » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:59 am

Great to hear you got some good customer service and solved your problems!
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby may21581 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:22 am

Glad you got in dialed back in. Sounds like you found a shop that knows their bows.
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Quest1001 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:47 am

Yeah no kidding!

I’m excited to get it sighted back in and see how it shoots. The whole reason for the paper tuning is I want to shoot broad heads for the first time, I’ve read arrow flight is important for penetration etc. so I wanted to check things out. Glad I did because who knows what it would have been like to try get them to group or worse yet get good penetration on an animal.
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Twenty Up » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:54 pm

I use the QSpine App (Pinwheel Software) to calculate my arrow spine dynamic, arrow weight, FOC, all that fun stuff

Once I find an arrow length, spine, weight that matches my DL/# I’ll begin bareshaft tuning at 7 yards. Once I get arrow 1 shooting close to bulletholes I’ll begin the nock tuning process.

Bareshaft nock tuning has improved my arrow grouping and broadhead flight tremendously, gotta thank Ranch Fairy for the idea.

313E99F6-0CD2-4F25-8A13-C8240ED672E8.jpeg


Above is the process I take, numbering each shot from the same arrow (A1.. etc) until each arrow produces a bullet hole.

If you or anyone else hasn’t watched Ranch Fairy’s bareshaft tuning process on YouTube, I highly recommend it. Troy can be a little rough on the edges, but he knows what he’s talking about.
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby greenhorndave » Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:16 pm

Twenty Up wrote:I use the QSpine App (Pinwheel Software) to calculate my arrow spine dynamic, arrow weight, FOC, all that fun stuff

Once I find an arrow length, spine, weight that matches my DL/# I’ll begin bareshaft tuning at 7 yards. Once I get arrow 1 shooting close to bulletholes I’ll begin the nock tuning process.

Bareshaft nock tuning has improved my arrow grouping and broadhead flight tremendously, gotta thank Ranch Fairy for the idea.

313E99F6-0CD2-4F25-8A13-C8240ED672E8.jpeg

Above is the process I take, numbering each shot from the same arrow (A1.. etc) until each arrow produces a bullet hole.

If you or anyone else hasn’t watched Ranch Fairy’s bareshaft tuning process on YouTube, I highly recommend it. Troy can be a little rough on the edges, but he knows what he’s talking about.

So is point weight the difference between the arrows? You find the point weight that shoots the bullets?

Also, what distance are you from the cardboard?

And per the pic, it looks like 6 is the best?
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Twenty Up » Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:49 pm

greenhorndave wrote:
Twenty Up wrote:I use the QSpine App (Pinwheel Software) to calculate my arrow spine dynamic, arrow weight, FOC, all that fun stuff

Once I find an arrow length, spine, weight that matches my DL/# I’ll begin bareshaft tuning at 7 yards. Once I get arrow 1 shooting close to bulletholes I’ll begin the nock tuning process.

Bareshaft nock tuning has improved my arrow grouping and broadhead flight tremendously, gotta thank Ranch Fairy for the idea.

313E99F6-0CD2-4F25-8A13-C8240ED672E8.jpeg

Above is the process I take, numbering each shot from the same arrow (A1.. etc) until each arrow produces a bullet hole.

If you or anyone else hasn’t watched Ranch Fairy’s bareshaft tuning process on YouTube, I highly recommend it. Troy can be a little rough on the edges, but he knows what he’s talking about.

So is point weight the difference between the arrows? You find the point weight that shoots the bullets?

Also, what distance are you from the cardboard?

And per the pic, it looks like 6 is the best?


Negative, I go “all in” and buy one set of arrows (250 spine cut at 28”) then bought 200 grain stainless steel Ethics inserts, paired with 100 grain Broadheads.

Next I’ll bareshaft tune at 7 yards, get my rest/nocking point set then begin fine tuning with 1/4ish turn of the nock. Some guys say start at 6’ then go back to 20 yards, don’t bother. Arrows “stabilize” aka quit wobbling in flight, around 19-22’. 7 yards is the furthest I can safely shoot in my basement as well :lol:

The series above numbered 1-6 is the same arrow, each # (aside from 5 & 6) is a slight nock turn adjustment. I’ll make marks with a black sharpie on the arrow shaft & nock so I know where “Up” is. #6 was where I ended up making a final notch and fletch my cock vane (this side ALWAYS nocks up”

5141E167-B144-4556-A375-3C6D443A7C24.png


Pictured is my arrow setup on QSpine. I spoke to Troy about if he uses this app to avoid the whole “hand loading” process, he’s very old school IMO. This app saves you a lot of time, as the spine dynamic changes and instead of shooting 100g up to say 600g off point weight, I use this calculator and buy whatever spine arrows/insert weight and I’m done. The software, in my experiences, is accurate.
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Quest1001
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Quest1001 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:56 pm

I will use the app!!

I didn’t know that existed.

The THP Boys lead me to Troy, which started the whole paper tuning process.
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Re: Arrow tune?

Unread postby Twenty Up » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:05 pm

I've gone “off the deep end” if you will, regarding arrow tuning and attempting to perfect broadhead flight. After losing several rather large bucks to deflections, poor penetration, etc I was tired of coming up short. I found Troy and literally harassed the poor man for months and while our opinions differ on some aspects, his findings and my brief experiences have been very similar.

I passed on this information to a good friend who lost 3 bucks in 2019 due to 0 penetration(knock off Rages). He sent me this text a couple weeks back.

E0704079-2145-43A5-AE37-D9FD8FFA8741.jpeg


He “drank the kool aid” and simply nock tuned his existing arrows after removing the fletching, only to find his “tuned” arrows weren’t so tuned. Of course he ditched the Chinese Rage’s and his awesome wife bought him Iron Will Wides for Fathers Day... But my takeaway here is, I feel most of us lose so much penetration from a poorly tuned (not nock tuning) our arrows. Bareshaft & nock tuning will reveal minor imperfections that fletchings can potentially cover up.
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