Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
BorealBushMN
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby BorealBushMN » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:05 pm

Wannabelikedan wrote:
You can torque the string which can easily be overlooked and be more frustrating than actually having tuning issues. What bow do you have now compared to your previous and the draw length of both.
I shoot either a 29.5” or 30” DL depending on the bow. I have a nitrum 30 that I had to drop down to 29.5” draw because I was torquing the string when I anchored. Had a nock high and right tear on paper that wouldn’t go away because of it. May not be your issue but just a thought. You would think draw length would be universal on bows but they don’t all turn out the same once you get drawn. All else fails get to a shop before you change too much. Good luck


Well, I dialed my draw length down to 29.5 and was shooting darts this evening. It’s only a handful of shots but I didn’t have the tail-whip at all. I was also more conscious of the pressure I put on the string against my face. Seemed to work! Thanks again for the advise.

Now I need to get the paper out and really see which weight combo works best, because they all seemed to fly well this evening.

Sorry if I completely derailed this thread.


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ThePreBanMan
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:42 pm

BorealBushMN wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!



I think an often overlooked area of setting up a bow is - reading the manual. I think a lot of folks would be well served to do this before they go moving things around. Typically your bow manufacturer will advise you to set the rest square to the bow riser. That is best done using a laser tool like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
....or similar. Then they have you set the vertical so that the shaft is centered with the Berger hole in the riser. Then set nock height using a bow square. Set nock height above square by half the diameter of your shaft. Your rest is now square to the bow and string and this is where most manufacturers would advise you set it - and leave it. From there you adjust for arrow flight via moving the nock point for vertical, or yoke tune for horizontal, shooting bare shafts through paper at a distance of 21 feet to observe arrow flight. But you don't move the rest. The rest should be square to the bow. If you have issues with arrow flight in that position, then you need to make adjustments in your cables. This requires a bow press which most people don't have. So they go buggering around with the rest to try to compensate for out of tune strings/cables. Larger groups and inconsistent arrow flight are often the results - and poor broadhead PoI consistency.
Set the rest where the manufacturer advises. Then get the majority of your bare shafts shooting something close to a bullet hole through paper at 21' by adjusting the yoke cables and nock height. Shoot each one several times. Out of a dozen or so shafts, you may have a few shafts that don't seem to play nice - and that's okay. This is why you want to use several. Inconsistencies in arrow manufacturing will show themselves here. As will inconsistencies with the man behind the bow. But if you're shooting a quality shaft they should be pretty consistent. Then fine-tune via nock tune and making small changes to point weight to get the spine dialed in. This is the "hand load". But doing the hand load if the bow isn't right is putting the cart before the horse IMHO. It's like trying to hand load a bullet for a rifle before you have the scope properly mounted and zeroed.

....This assumes the obvious as well. Like your bow is in time, you have the right spine shafts for your draw length/weight, etc...


Thanks! That’s a lot of info! I haven’t touched the bow since I got it outside of tinkering with the rest and putting on a new sight and stabilizer. I had it tuned and set up at the shop when I bought it and was shooting great.

Part of the reason I pursued building an adult arrow was because I was noticing tail-whip at times with my “kid” arrows. Thought a heavier arrow may be the ticket.

They hit where I’m aiming in the end, it just whips coming off the string.

I shot again tonight with a bunch of different field point weights and it seemed I got a lot of tail-whip except for a few weight combinations. My next opportunity to shoot this week I will bust out the paper and see how that goes. And my next trip south, I’ll be bringing my bow with to bring to the shop.

I’m pretty confident it’s me torquing it. I’ll need to work on my form.


I hate to say this but I don't trust pro shops much these days. Absent a quick k eyeball check with a level and a bow square, they really don't "set up" or "tune" that well at all. Trust but verify. Make sure to inspect what you expect. When it comes to tuning, I like to pay attention to the guys at Last Chance. They know their stuff...

https://youtu.be/ur3hZ4wiMFs
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Quest1001 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:12 am

Nock tuned my arrows.

It was an interesting process, seeing how the arrow behaved differently based on the nock position.

One step closer.
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trob_205
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby trob_205 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:20 pm

ThePreBanMan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!



I think an often overlooked area of setting up a bow is - reading the manual. I think a lot of folks would be well served to do this before they go moving things around. Typically your bow manufacturer will advise you to set the rest square to the bow riser. That is best done using a laser tool like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
....or similar. Then they have you set the vertical so that the shaft is centered with the Berger hole in the riser. Then set nock height using a bow square. Set nock height above square by half the diameter of your shaft. Your rest is now square to the bow and string and this is where most manufacturers would advise you set it - and leave it. From there you adjust for arrow flight via moving the nock point for vertical, or yoke tune for horizontal, shooting bare shafts through paper at a distance of 21 feet to observe arrow flight. But you don't move the rest. The rest should be square to the bow. If you have issues with arrow flight in that position, then you need to make adjustments in your cables. This requires a bow press which most people don't have. So they go buggering around with the rest to try to compensate for out of tune strings/cables. Larger groups and inconsistent arrow flight are often the results - and poor broadhead PoI consistency.
Set the rest where the manufacturer advises. Then get the majority of your bare shafts shooting something close to a bullet hole through paper at 21' by adjusting the yoke cables and nock height. Shoot each one several times. Out of a dozen or so shafts, you may have a few shafts that don't seem to play nice - and that's okay. This is why you want to use several. Inconsistencies in arrow manufacturing will show themselves here. As will inconsistencies with the man behind the bow. But if you're shooting a quality shaft they should be pretty consistent. Then fine-tune via nock tune and making small changes to point weight to get the spine dialed in. This is the "hand load". But doing the hand load if the bow isn't right is putting the cart before the horse IMHO. It's like trying to hand load a bullet for a rifle before you have the scope properly mounted and zeroed.

....This assumes the obvious as well. Like your bow is in time, you have the right spine shafts for your draw length/weight, etc...


Thanks! That’s a lot of info! I haven’t touched the bow since I got it outside of tinkering with the rest and putting on a new sight and stabilizer. I had it tuned and set up at the shop when I bought it and was shooting great.

Part of the reason I pursued building an adult arrow was because I was noticing tail-whip at times with my “kid” arrows. Thought a heavier arrow may be the ticket.

They hit where I’m aiming in the end, it just whips coming off the string.

I shot again tonight with a bunch of different field point weights and it seemed I got a lot of tail-whip except for a few weight combinations. My next opportunity to shoot this week I will bust out the paper and see how that goes. And my next trip south, I’ll be bringing my bow with to bring to the shop.

I’m pretty confident it’s me torquing it. I’ll need to work on my form.


I hate to say this but I don't trust pro shops much these days. Absent a quick k eyeball check with a level and a bow square, they really don't "set up" or "tune" that well at all. Trust but verify. Make sure to inspect what you expect. When it comes to tuning, I like to pay attention to the guys at Last Chance. They know their stuff...

https://youtu.be/ur3hZ4wiMFs

True and not true. Some bows need more attention that ever and shops just don’t have the time. Hate to push a brand but the dead lock cam system on the Bowtech makes tuning so incredibly easy most any half brain can get it tuned. And better yet any half brain can broadhead/walk back/bare shaft tune it in their back yard with a simple Allen wench. IMHO it’s truly revolutionary.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby trob_205 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:20 pm

ThePreBanMan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!



I think an often overlooked area of setting up a bow is - reading the manual. I think a lot of folks would be well served to do this before they go moving things around. Typically your bow manufacturer will advise you to set the rest square to the bow riser. That is best done using a laser tool like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
....or similar. Then they have you set the vertical so that the shaft is centered with the Berger hole in the riser. Then set nock height using a bow square. Set nock height above square by half the diameter of your shaft. Your rest is now square to the bow and string and this is where most manufacturers would advise you set it - and leave it. From there you adjust for arrow flight via moving the nock point for vertical, or yoke tune for horizontal, shooting bare shafts through paper at a distance of 21 feet to observe arrow flight. But you don't move the rest. The rest should be square to the bow. If you have issues with arrow flight in that position, then you need to make adjustments in your cables. This requires a bow press which most people don't have. So they go buggering around with the rest to try to compensate for out of tune strings/cables. Larger groups and inconsistent arrow flight are often the results - and poor broadhead PoI consistency.
Set the rest where the manufacturer advises. Then get the majority of your bare shafts shooting something close to a bullet hole through paper at 21' by adjusting the yoke cables and nock height. Shoot each one several times. Out of a dozen or so shafts, you may have a few shafts that don't seem to play nice - and that's okay. This is why you want to use several. Inconsistencies in arrow manufacturing will show themselves here. As will inconsistencies with the man behind the bow. But if you're shooting a quality shaft they should be pretty consistent. Then fine-tune via nock tune and making small changes to point weight to get the spine dialed in. This is the "hand load". But doing the hand load if the bow isn't right is putting the cart before the horse IMHO. It's like trying to hand load a bullet for a rifle before you have the scope properly mounted and zeroed.

....This assumes the obvious as well. Like your bow is in time, you have the right spine shafts for your draw length/weight, etc...


Thanks! That’s a lot of info! I haven’t touched the bow since I got it outside of tinkering with the rest and putting on a new sight and stabilizer. I had it tuned and set up at the shop when I bought it and was shooting great.

Part of the reason I pursued building an adult arrow was because I was noticing tail-whip at times with my “kid” arrows. Thought a heavier arrow may be the ticket.

They hit where I’m aiming in the end, it just whips coming off the string.

I shot again tonight with a bunch of different field point weights and it seemed I got a lot of tail-whip except for a few weight combinations. My next opportunity to shoot this week I will bust out the paper and see how that goes. And my next trip south, I’ll be bringing my bow with to bring to the shop.

I’m pretty confident it’s me torquing it. I’ll need to work on my form.


I hate to say this but I don't trust pro shops much these days. Absent a quick k eyeball check with a level and a bow square, they really don't "set up" or "tune" that well at all. Trust but verify. Make sure to inspect what you expect. When it comes to tuning, I like to pay attention to the guys at Last Chance. They know their stuff...

https://youtu.be/ur3hZ4wiMFs

True and not true. Some bows need more attention that ever and shops just don’t have the time. Hate to push a brand but the dead lock cam system on the Bowtech makes tuning so incredibly easy most any half brain can get it tuned. And better yet any half brain can broadhead/walk back/bare shaft tune it in their back yard with a simple Allen wench. IMHO it’s truly revolutionary.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby buttonbuck » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:56 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!



I think an often overlooked area of setting up a bow is - reading the manual. I think a lot of folks would be well served to do this before they go moving things around. Typically your bow manufacturer will advise you to set the rest square to the bow riser. That is best done using a laser tool like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
....or similar. Then they have you set the vertical so that the shaft is centered with the Berger hole in the riser. Then set nock height using a bow square. Set nock height above square by half the diameter of your shaft. Your rest is now square to the bow and string and this is where most manufacturers would advise you set it - and leave it. From there you adjust for arrow flight via moving the nock point for vertical, or yoke tune for horizontal, shooting bare shafts through paper at a distance of 21 feet to observe arrow flight. But you don't move the rest. The rest should be square to the bow. If you have issues with arrow flight in that position, then you need to make adjustments in your cables. This requires a bow press which most people don't have. So they go buggering around with the rest to try to compensate for out of tune strings/cables. Larger groups and inconsistent arrow flight are often the results - and poor broadhead PoI consistency.
Set the rest where the manufacturer advises. Then get the majority of your bare shafts shooting something close to a bullet hole through paper at 21' by adjusting the yoke cables and nock height. Shoot each one several times. Out of a dozen or so shafts, you may have a few shafts that don't seem to play nice - and that's okay. This is why you want to use several. Inconsistencies in arrow manufacturing will show themselves here. As will inconsistencies with the man behind the bow. But if you're shooting a quality shaft they should be pretty consistent. Then fine-tune via nock tune and making small changes to point weight to get the spine dialed in. This is the "hand load". But doing the hand load if the bow isn't right is putting the cart before the horse IMHO. It's like trying to hand load a bullet for a rifle before you have the scope properly mounted and zeroed.

....This assumes the obvious as well. Like your bow is in time, you have the right spine shafts for your draw length/weight, etc...



So far this makes the most sense. So I'm pretty ignorant to all this and still learning and watching videos before I do anything. I've watched the ranch fairys videos on arrow set up several times trying to figure out why he does all the things he's doing before I ask questions, still probably missing something. A couple things I have questions about. How come he's not paper tuning with fletchings on, he nock tunes fletched arrows but doesn't put em through paper. Also I figured you would want your bow tuned perfect, at the archery shop they had my bow being paper tuned off a machine. So kinda like a rifle. Id rather that rifle be perfect and I have to adapt to it, than my rifle be tuned to me. Adjusting the bow because you don't want to fix your form or shoot correctly doesn't make since to me.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Bowonly » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:38 am

buttonbuck wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!



I think an often overlooked area of setting up a bow is - reading the manual. I think a lot of folks would be well served to do this before they go moving things around. Typically your bow manufacturer will advise you to set the rest square to the bow riser. That is best done using a laser tool like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
....or similar. Then they have you set the vertical so that the shaft is centered with the Berger hole in the riser. Then set nock height using a bow square. Set nock height above square by half the diameter of your shaft. Your rest is now square to the bow and string and this is where most manufacturers would advise you set it - and leave it. From there you adjust for arrow flight via moving the nock point for vertical, or yoke tune for horizontal, shooting bare shafts through paper at a distance of 21 feet to observe arrow flight. But you don't move the rest. The rest should be square to the bow. If you have issues with arrow flight in that position, then you need to make adjustments in your cables. This requires a bow press which most people don't have. So they go buggering around with the rest to try to compensate for out of tune strings/cables. Larger groups and inconsistent arrow flight are often the results - and poor broadhead PoI consistency.
Set the rest where the manufacturer advises. Then get the majority of your bare shafts shooting something close to a bullet hole through paper at 21' by adjusting the yoke cables and nock height. Shoot each one several times. Out of a dozen or so shafts, you may have a few shafts that don't seem to play nice - and that's okay. This is why you want to use several. Inconsistencies in arrow manufacturing will show themselves here. As will inconsistencies with the man behind the bow. But if you're shooting a quality shaft they should be pretty consistent. Then fine-tune via nock tune and making small changes to point weight to get the spine dialed in. This is the "hand load". But doing the hand load if the bow isn't right is putting the cart before the horse IMHO. It's like trying to hand load a bullet for a rifle before you have the scope properly mounted and zeroed.

....This assumes the obvious as well. Like your bow is in time, you have the right spine shafts for your draw length/weight, etc...



So far this makes the most sense. So I'm pretty ignorant to all this and still learning and watching videos before I do anything. I've watched the ranch fairys videos on arrow set up several times trying to figure out why he does all the things he's doing before I ask questions, still probably missing something. A couple things I have questions about. How come he's not paper tuning with fletchings on, he nock tunes fletched arrows but doesn't put em through paper. Also I figured you would want your bow tuned perfect, at the archery shop they had my bow being paper tuned off a machine. So kinda like a rifle. Id rather that rifle be perfect and I have to adapt to it, than my rifle be tuned to me. Adjusting the bow because you don't want to fix your form or shoot correctly doesn't make since to me.


Generally speaking you bare shaft because it shows imperfections in your form or the tune of the bow more so than a fletched arrow. The thought being that if bare shafts fly well then a fletched arrow will have less to correct out of the bow.

Can't speak for your shop but I'd say they're tuning through a machine to remove the human variables. I partly see the point but ultimately you are a part of the shooting system and if poor arrow flight is caused by the shooter you should know about it and work to correct it.
Take someone hunting or fishing.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:44 am

buttonbuck wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!



I think an often overlooked area of setting up a bow is - reading the manual. I think a lot of folks would be well served to do this before they go moving things around. Typically your bow manufacturer will advise you to set the rest square to the bow riser. That is best done using a laser tool like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
....or similar. Then they have you set the vertical so that the shaft is centered with the Berger hole in the riser. Then set nock height using a bow square. Set nock height above square by half the diameter of your shaft. Your rest is now square to the bow and string and this is where most manufacturers would advise you set it - and leave it. From there you adjust for arrow flight via moving the nock point for vertical, or yoke tune for horizontal, shooting bare shafts through paper at a distance of 21 feet to observe arrow flight. But you don't move the rest. The rest should be square to the bow. If you have issues with arrow flight in that position, then you need to make adjustments in your cables. This requires a bow press which most people don't have. So they go buggering around with the rest to try to compensate for out of tune strings/cables. Larger groups and inconsistent arrow flight are often the results - and poor broadhead PoI consistency.
Set the rest where the manufacturer advises. Then get the majority of your bare shafts shooting something close to a bullet hole through paper at 21' by adjusting the yoke cables and nock height. Shoot each one several times. Out of a dozen or so shafts, you may have a few shafts that don't seem to play nice - and that's okay. This is why you want to use several. Inconsistencies in arrow manufacturing will show themselves here. As will inconsistencies with the man behind the bow. But if you're shooting a quality shaft they should be pretty consistent. Then fine-tune via nock tune and making small changes to point weight to get the spine dialed in. This is the "hand load". But doing the hand load if the bow isn't right is putting the cart before the horse IMHO. It's like trying to hand load a bullet for a rifle before you have the scope properly mounted and zeroed.

....This assumes the obvious as well. Like your bow is in time, you have the right spine shafts for your draw length/weight, etc...



So far this makes the most sense. So I'm pretty ignorant to all this and still learning and watching videos before I do anything. I've watched the ranch fairys videos on arrow set up several times trying to figure out why he does all the things he's doing before I ask questions, still probably missing something. A couple things I have questions about. How come he's not paper tuning with fletchings on, he nock tunes fletched arrows but doesn't put em through paper. Also I figured you would want your bow tuned perfect, at the archery shop they had my bow being paper tuned off a machine. So kinda like a rifle. Id rather that rifle be perfect and I have to adapt to it, than my rifle be tuned to me. Adjusting the bow because you don't want to fix your form or shoot correctly doesn't make since to me.


Because true paper tuning, when done properly, is at a distance of at least 21 feet. If your shafts are fletched then they would have impacted arrow flight pretty drastically by then if not outright corrected it. Consequently, you would not get accurate readings. You should not paper tune closer than that because the arrow is still flexing as a consequence of being sent from the bow with extreme violence. This leads to false readings as the arrow goes through that process. RF also has a vid where he talks about this, and diagrams the behavior with assistance from "the wizard".

https://youtu.be/GVPXPEu-V0s

You will see people with fletched arrows shoot paper at much closer distances because it does not give the fletching time to do its thing and correct flight. It's better than nothing, but it's not ideal.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Trout » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:21 pm

ThePreBanMan wrote:
Because true paper tuning, when done properly, is at a distance of at least 21 feet. If your shafts are fletched then they would have impacted arrow flight pretty drastically by then if not outright corrected it. Consequently, you would not get accurate readings. You should not paper tune closer than that because the arrow is still flexing as a consequence of being sent from the bow with extreme violence. This leads to false readings as the arrow goes through that process. RF also has a vid where he talks about this, and diagrams the behavior with assistance from "the wizard".

https://youtu.be/GVPXPEu-V0s

You will see people with fletched arrows shoot paper at much closer distances because it does not give the fletching time to do its thing and correct flight. It's better than nothing, but it's not ideal.


It was an eye opener for me to see this all work first hand. Got a piece of tape on the basement floor at 25' now to help keep myself from creeping up or losing a couple/few feet from my bow arm pointing out.

I've got three bare shafts tuned, three I thought were tuned but going back through and double checking got a little more work to do, and 6 to go through the whole process with. Just want to get 6 tuned arrows for now so I can start using them in summer 3D league and get used to them before season.

Man, I thought my bow was quiet the last couple seasons with a 480gr arrow, holy smokes is it silent now at 600! Cant wait to use one of those decibel meter apps with it out in the yard this week and measure the difference new vs old arrow.

20200623_184857.jpg
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buttonbuck
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby buttonbuck » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:26 pm

This guy says don't go over 15% FOC or your harming your velocity. Is this opinion a matter of out west 70 yard vs 20 yard tree stand hunting.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-2S3SI9GPg
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:21 pm

buttonbuck wrote:This guy says don't go over 15% FOC or your harming your velocity. Is this opinion a matter of out west 70 yard vs 20 yard tree stand hunting.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-2S3SI9GPg


They don’t just talk about FOC though. They also discuss total arrow weight, which of course impacts velocity. But here is something most guys don’t consider....

Shoot a 400 grain arrow vs. 600 grain... The 400 would be faster OUT OF THE BOW which is where most people stop their observations. But what about 40 yards down range? They will both have lost speed by that point, but how much as a percentage of that initial speed out of the bow? That, is what would surprise most people I think. The heavier arrow will have lost far less speed as a % of its launch velocity compared to the lighter arrow.... Momentum is a thing... now how big this difference is, the percentage of loss, will all depend on a lot of factors... But configuration being equal in terms of fletching, drag, etc there is never an outcome where the lighter arrow maintains its velocity, IE momentum, IE kinetic energy better then the heavier arrow. It is mathematically impossible and would defy the laws of physics.

Do an experiment to show this. Go out in your yard and throw a ping pong ball as hard as you can, level with the ground, don’t lob it. Now do the same with a baseball. Which one actually made it farther before hitting the ground? Which one was faster at 10 yards, 20? At the moment the ball left your hand, the ping pong ball would be going faster. It’s lighter so your arm velocity is faster. But once you stop propelling it and now it’s flight relies solely on its stored energy, this is where things change drastically. This is a simplistic demonstration but it is relevant. The physics do not change just because it’s a ball and not an arrow.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby buttonbuck » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:05 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:
buttonbuck wrote:This guy says don't go over 15% FOC or your harming your velocity. Is this opinion a matter of out west 70 yard vs 20 yard tree stand hunting.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-2S3SI9GPg


They don’t just talk about FOC though. They also discuss total arrow weight, which of course impacts velocity. But here is something most guys don’t consider....

Shoot a 400 grain arrow vs. 600 grain... The 400 would be faster OUT OF THE BOW which is where most people stop their observations. But what about 40 yards down range? They will both have lost speed by that point, but how much as a percentage of that initial speed out of the bow? That, is what would surprise most people I think. The heavier arrow will have lost far less speed as a % of its launch velocity compared to the lighter arrow.... Momentum is a thing... now how big this difference is, the percentage of loss, will all depend on a lot of factors... But configuration being equal in terms of fletching, drag, etc there is never an outcome where the lighter arrow maintains its velocity, IE momentum, IE kinetic energy better then the heavier arrow. It is mathematically impossible and would defy the laws of physics.

Do an experiment to show this. Go out in your yard and throw a ping pong ball as hard as you can, level with the ground, don’t lob it. Now do the same with a baseball. Which one actually made it farther before hitting the ground? Which one was faster at 10 yards, 20? At the moment the ball left your hand, the ping pong ball would be going faster. It’s lighter so your arm velocity is faster. But once you stop propelling it and now it’s flight relies solely on its stored energy, this is where things change drastically. This is a simplistic demonstration but it is relevant. The physics do not change just because it’s a ball and not an arrow.


So my arrows are something like 32" long and weigh 447 grains. I'm thinking of adding a 100 grain insert, going to fix blade broad heads and using the ranch fairy method adding paper to all tuning aspects and see if I cant get em going good. Won't take much to bump up to 550 and test from there what works. I'm new to the compound bow. bought it around Feburary and when I put a fixed blade broadhead on it and it didn't fly right I just switched to mechanicals. I don't like mechanicals though. I really like those single bevel bishops, not sure if they would tune as well as the holy trinity 3 blade.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Wannabelikedan » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:07 am

Trout wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
Because true paper tuning, when done properly, is at a distance of at least 21 feet. If your shafts are fletched then they would have impacted arrow flight pretty drastically by then if not outright corrected it. Consequently, you would not get accurate readings. You should not paper tune closer than that because the arrow is still flexing as a consequence of being sent from the bow with extreme violence. This leads to false readings as the arrow goes through that process. RF also has a vid where he talks about this, and diagrams the behavior with assistance from "the wizard".

https://youtu.be/GVPXPEu-V0s

You will see people with fletched arrows shoot paper at much closer distances because it does not give the fletching time to do its thing and correct flight. It's better than nothing, but it's not ideal.


It was an eye opener for me to see this all work first hand. Got a piece of tape on the basement floor at 25' now to help keep myself from creeping up or losing a couple/few feet from my bow arm pointing out.

I've got three bare shafts tuned, three I thought were tuned but going back through and double checking got a little more work to do, and 6 to go through the whole process with. Just want to get 6 tuned arrows for now so I can start using them in summer 3D league and get used to them before season.

Man, I thought my bow was quiet the last couple seasons with a 480gr arrow, holy smokes is it silent now at 600! Cant wait to use one of those decibel meter apps with it out in the yard this week and measure the difference new vs old arrow.

20200623_184857.jpg


I have people amazed at how quiet my bow is all the time. They ask what I did to my bow and then i give them the arrow. I shot a 645 grain bare shaft last night compared with an 887 grain. It’s night and day on noise.
Teaching is only demonstrating that it is possible.... Learning is making it possible for yourself.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:15 pm

buttonbuck wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
buttonbuck wrote:This guy says don't go over 15% FOC or your harming your velocity. Is this opinion a matter of out west 70 yard vs 20 yard tree stand hunting.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-2S3SI9GPg


They don’t just talk about FOC though. They also discuss total arrow weight, which of course impacts velocity. But here is something most guys don’t consider....

Shoot a 400 grain arrow vs. 600 grain... The 400 would be faster OUT OF THE BOW which is where most people stop their observations. But what about 40 yards down range? They will both have lost speed by that point, but how much as a percentage of that initial speed out of the bow? That, is what would surprise most people I think. The heavier arrow will have lost far less speed as a % of its launch velocity compared to the lighter arrow.... Momentum is a thing... now how big this difference is, the percentage of loss, will all depend on a lot of factors... But configuration being equal in terms of fletching, drag, etc there is never an outcome where the lighter arrow maintains its velocity, IE momentum, IE kinetic energy better then the heavier arrow. It is mathematically impossible and would defy the laws of physics.

Do an experiment to show this. Go out in your yard and throw a ping pong ball as hard as you can, level with the ground, don’t lob it. Now do the same with a baseball. Which one actually made it farther before hitting the ground? Which one was faster at 10 yards, 20? At the moment the ball left your hand, the ping pong ball would be going faster. It’s lighter so your arm velocity is faster. But once you stop propelling it and now it’s flight relies solely on its stored energy, this is where things change drastically. This is a simplistic demonstration but it is relevant. The physics do not change just because it’s a ball and not an arrow.


So my arrows are something like 32" long and weigh 447 grains. I'm thinking of adding a 100 grain insert, going to fix blade broad heads and using the ranch fairy method adding paper to all tuning aspects and see if I cant get em going good. Won't take much to bump up to 550 and test from there what works. I'm new to the compound bow. bought it around Feburary and when I put a fixed blade broadhead on it and it didn't fly right I just switched to mechanicals. I don't like mechanicals though. I really like those single bevel bishops, not sure if they would tune as well as the holy trinity 3 blade.


I don't know what the spine of your arrow is, but you can't generally just throw weight up front and expect it to fly. Your going to need new shafts...
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Trout » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:39 pm

Arrow build is complete, just gotta sight in. 29" draw, 65lb triax.
Ended up.with a 27.25" day six 300 arrow, 100gr stainless insert/outsert. 150gr point. Total arrow weight varies between 594.2 and 596 grains for the six arrows I built. FOC is 22% or 19.5% based on which way you choose to measure the total arrow length (outsert adds an inch, not supposed to count that with the amount method so it gives me a few extra %. Not sure what's right in terms of what it really is, but I'm happy with both numbers).

I lost light before I could sight in a new sight tape, but using my 20 yard pin from my previous arrow (480gr), these new heavier arrows are grouping about 6" low. Getting really great penetration into the block target and pretty tight groups.


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