Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Trout » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:20 pm

greenhorndave wrote:Just got a couple shafts and point test kits. Should be interesting.


Looking forward to seeing where you end up after all this. Its an interesting rabbit hole for sure.

I'm leaning towards the 250 spine arrow (spartans) and 250gr up front. That will put me at a 599 grains of total arrow weight, or 8.6gr/lb, and 17.03% calculated FOC. I could definitely chase higher FOC but I'm not super focused on that aspect of arrow flight, and 17% isn't bad.

My actual speed at launch with the 250 is coming in at 265-267fps. That really shocked me because my current arrows weigh 482gr and leave the bow at about 280fps. Per the ballistics charts (I'm not bold enough to shoot through my chrono at 40yds yet :? :lol: ) The 599 arrow is only going to drop an additional 4" compared to the 482gr arrow, and at 40yds, my 482gr arrow should be going about 268fps, the 599 will be right behind it at 259fps.


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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby greenhorndave » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:31 pm

Trout wrote:
greenhorndave wrote:Just got a couple shafts and point test kits. Should be interesting.


Looking forward to seeing where you end up after all this. Its an interesting rabbit hole for sure.

I'm leaning towards the 250 spine arrow (spartans) and 250gr up front. That will put me at a 599 grains of total arrow weight, or 8.6gr/lb, and 17.03% calculated FOC. I could definitely chase higher FOC but I'm not super focused on that aspect of arrow flight, and 17% isn't bad.

My actual speed at launch with the 250 is coming in at 265-267fps. That really shocked me because my current arrows weigh 482gr and leave the bow at about 280fps. Per the ballistics charts (I'm not bold enough to shoot through my chrono at 40yds yet :? :lol: ) The 599 arrow is only going to drop an additional 4" compared to the 482gr arrow, and at 40yds, my 482gr arrow should be going about 268fps, the 599 will be right behind it at 259fps.

That’s pretty cool. I should probably bite the bullet and get a chrono. But... your results are cool. What draw weight do you use? I think your arrow length is a little longer than mine, so 250s make sense. But I’m curious about how the 250s and 300s compare when I start (62 lbs)
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Quest1001 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:07 pm

In a pic trout posted it looked like he is at 70 pounds draw.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Trout » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:48 pm

greenhorndave wrote:
Trout wrote:
greenhorndave wrote:Just got a couple shafts and point test kits. Should be interesting.


Looking forward to seeing where you end up after all this. Its an interesting rabbit hole for sure.

I'm leaning towards the 250 spine arrow (spartans) and 250gr up front. That will put me at a 599 grains of total arrow weight, or 8.6gr/lb, and 17.03% calculated FOC. I could definitely chase higher FOC but I'm not super focused on that aspect of arrow flight, and 17% isn't bad.

My actual speed at launch with the 250 is coming in at 265-267fps. That really shocked me because my current arrows weigh 482gr and leave the bow at about 280fps. Per the ballistics charts (I'm not bold enough to shoot through my chrono at 40yds yet :? :lol: ) The 599 arrow is only going to drop an additional 4" compared to the 482gr arrow, and at 40yds, my 482gr arrow should be going about 268fps, the 599 will be right behind it at 259fps.

That’s pretty cool. I should probably bite the bullet and get a chrono. But... your results are cool. What draw weight do you use? I think your arrow length is a little longer than mine, so 250s make sense. But I’m curious about how the 250s and 300s compare when I start (62 lbs)


I'm 29-70. I am at 70 right now but will try to get good arrow flight at 65lbs.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Trout » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:52 am

Wannabelikedan wrote:
Trout wrote:Shot a bunch of bare shafts through paper this morning trying to figure out my best handload

IMG_20200606_103030_766.jpg

Gotta go help family with some chores but will shoot the three best spine/weight combos more when I get home.


You have a consistent right tear with all combinations. Move the rest left and you should see an improvement in a lot of those groups. I doubt you have much issue after that other than what’s your preference from that point.


Been doing yard work all day and was thinking, what kind of impact is there on all this if these shafts arent nock tuned? Cause they weren't. So I nock tuned it at 21', here are the results. 0 degrees was where I was when I was doing the whole handload process. Turned the nock to 90, then 180, then 270, boom, almost a bullet hole. Came up to 6' where I did the handload at and it was a bullet hole. The tear at 0 was one of the worst.

I was just following his process step by step, didnt dawn on me to nock tune first, but doing that makes a lot of sense before hand loading.

20200607_174057.jpg
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Quest1001 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:55 am

Very cool, thanks for the update.

It’s surprising the drastic change in arrow flight just by adjusting the nock!
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Trout » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:29 am

Two test kits latrr I finally settled on an arrow. Everything was good with the black eagle spartans, but i wasnt happy with the durability after putting one through a couple layers of 1/2" drywall (whoops) and having the insert end splinter. Ordered the day six test kit and settled on a 300 spine arrow cut at 27.5", ends up being about 28.5 to the end of the outsert. Will use the 100gr steel outsert and a 150gr point. Total arrow weight will be a few grains under 600, 18% FOC. Just gotta pick a broadhead now. Narrowed it down to either the Cutthroat, tuffhead or day six evo-x. Currently favoring the cutthroat.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby BorealBushMN » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:57 am

I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Wannabelikedan » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:05 am

BorealBushMN wrote:I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!


You can torque the string which can easily be overlooked and be more frustrating than actually having tuning issues. What bow do you have now compared to your previous and the draw length of both?
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby BorealBushMN » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:39 am

Wannabelikedan wrote:
You can torque the string which can easily be overlooked and be more frustrating than actually having tuning issues. What bow do you have now compared to your previous and the draw length of both?



I got a new Powermax about 3 years ago. Had an old Hoyt MT Sport for years before. 30" DL for both.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby Wannabelikedan » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:30 am

BorealBushMN wrote:
Wannabelikedan wrote:
You can torque the string which can easily be overlooked and be more frustrating than actually having tuning issues. What bow do you have now compared to your previous and the draw length of both?



I got a new Powermax about 3 years ago. Had an old Hoyt MT Sport for years before. 30" DL for both.


I shoot either a 29.5” or 30” DL depending on the bow. I have a nitrum 30 that I had to drop down to 29.5” draw because I was torquing the string when I anchored. Had a nock high and right tear on paper that wouldn’t go away because of it. May not be your issue but just a thought. You would think draw length would be universal on bows but they don’t all turn out the same once you get drawn. All else fails get to a shop before you change too much. Good luck
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby matt1336 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:36 pm

Trout wrote:Two test kits latrr I finally settled on an arrow. Everything was good with the black eagle spartans, but i wasnt happy with the durability after putting one through a couple layers of 1/2" drywall (whoops) and having the insert end splinter. Ordered the day six test kit and settled on a 300 spine arrow cut at 27.5", ends up being about 28.5 to the end of the outsert. Will use the 100gr steel outsert and a 150gr point. Total arrow weight will be a few grains under 600, 18% FOC. Just gotta pick a broadhead now. Narrowed it down to either the Cutthroat, tuffhead or day six evo-x. Currently favoring the cutthroat.



Lol. I got the day six test kit too. Settled on the 300’s and I’m trying cutthroats too. My arrows are about that length too. Weird.
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:06 pm

BorealBushMN wrote:I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!



I think an often overlooked area of setting up a bow is - reading the manual. I think a lot of folks would be well served to do this before they go moving things around. Typically your bow manufacturer will advise you to set the rest square to the bow riser. That is best done using a laser tool like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
....or similar. Then they have you set the vertical so that the shaft is centered with the Berger hole in the riser. Then set nock height using a bow square. Set nock height above square by half the diameter of your shaft. Your rest is now square to the bow and string and this is where most manufacturers would advise you set it - and leave it. From there you adjust for arrow flight via moving the nock point for vertical, or yoke tune for horizontal, shooting bare shafts through paper at a distance of 21 feet to observe arrow flight. But you don't move the rest. The rest should be square to the bow. If you have issues with arrow flight in that position, then you need to make adjustments in your cables. This requires a bow press which most people don't have. So they go buggering around with the rest to try to compensate for out of tune strings/cables. Larger groups and inconsistent arrow flight are often the results - and poor broadhead PoI consistency.
Set the rest where the manufacturer advises. Then get the majority of your bare shafts shooting something close to a bullet hole through paper at 21' by adjusting the yoke cables and nock height. Shoot each one several times. Out of a dozen or so shafts, you may have a few shafts that don't seem to play nice - and that's okay. This is why you want to use several. Inconsistencies in arrow manufacturing will show themselves here. As will inconsistencies with the man behind the bow. But if you're shooting a quality shaft they should be pretty consistent. Then fine-tune via nock tune and making small changes to point weight to get the spine dialed in. This is the "hand load". But doing the hand load if the bow isn't right is putting the cart before the horse IMHO. It's like trying to hand load a bullet for a rifle before you have the scope properly mounted and zeroed.

....This assumes the obvious as well. Like your bow is in time, you have the right spine shafts for your draw length/weight, etc...
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby BorealBushMN » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:40 pm

Wannabelikedan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:
Wannabelikedan wrote:
You can torque the string which can easily be overlooked and be more frustrating than actually having tuning issues. What bow do you have now compared to your previous and the draw length of both?



I got a new Powermax about 3 years ago. Had an old Hoyt MT Sport for years before. 30" DL for both.


I shoot either a 29.5” or 30” DL depending on the bow. I have a nitrum 30 that I had to drop down to 29.5” draw because I was torquing the string when I anchored. Had a nock high and right tear on paper that wouldn’t go away because of it. May not be your issue but just a thought. You would think draw length would be universal on bows but they don’t all turn out the same once you get drawn. All else fails get to a shop before you change too much. Good luck


That’s interesting! Good to know! Something else to tinker with!
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Re: Hunting public featuring Ranch Ferry

Unread postby BorealBushMN » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:46 pm

ThePreBanMan wrote:
BorealBushMN wrote:I've been slowly working my way through the process myself. Seems like I found a consistent sweet spot with the 250 Vulcans with a 200gn and 225gn field points, but now I want to put them through paper and see. Also got a hold of some 125gn and 150gn points that I want to test as well to try and match the common broad head weights.

One issue I keep having which sets me back is I seem to get a consistent tail-whip from my arrows after release. I've tinkered with my rest, but have come to the conclusion that it has to be torque from my grip. Seems after I shoot for awhile (about the time the mosquitoes come out in full force in the evening) is when things start straightening out and I shoot darts. Not sure if I have a timing issue or cam lean going as I don't have a bow shop anywhere near me so I haven't been able to get in for a pro tune. But, my bow is fairly new so I don't think I'm having those issues... pretty confident it's user error. :think:

Has anyone else had issue with tail-whip from their arrows and know what caused it?

Tell ya what.... Going through the process sure ain't cheap!



I think an often overlooked area of setting up a bow is - reading the manual. I think a lot of folks would be well served to do this before they go moving things around. Typically your bow manufacturer will advise you to set the rest square to the bow riser. That is best done using a laser tool like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
....or similar. Then they have you set the vertical so that the shaft is centered with the Berger hole in the riser. Then set nock height using a bow square. Set nock height above square by half the diameter of your shaft. Your rest is now square to the bow and string and this is where most manufacturers would advise you set it - and leave it. From there you adjust for arrow flight via moving the nock point for vertical, or yoke tune for horizontal, shooting bare shafts through paper at a distance of 21 feet to observe arrow flight. But you don't move the rest. The rest should be square to the bow. If you have issues with arrow flight in that position, then you need to make adjustments in your cables. This requires a bow press which most people don't have. So they go buggering around with the rest to try to compensate for out of tune strings/cables. Larger groups and inconsistent arrow flight are often the results - and poor broadhead PoI consistency.
Set the rest where the manufacturer advises. Then get the majority of your bare shafts shooting something close to a bullet hole through paper at 21' by adjusting the yoke cables and nock height. Shoot each one several times. Out of a dozen or so shafts, you may have a few shafts that don't seem to play nice - and that's okay. This is why you want to use several. Inconsistencies in arrow manufacturing will show themselves here. As will inconsistencies with the man behind the bow. But if you're shooting a quality shaft they should be pretty consistent. Then fine-tune via nock tune and making small changes to point weight to get the spine dialed in. This is the "hand load". But doing the hand load if the bow isn't right is putting the cart before the horse IMHO. It's like trying to hand load a bullet for a rifle before you have the scope properly mounted and zeroed.

....This assumes the obvious as well. Like your bow is in time, you have the right spine shafts for your draw length/weight, etc...


Thanks! That’s a lot of info! I haven’t touched the bow since I got it outside of tinkering with the rest and putting on a new sight and stabilizer. I had it tuned and set up at the shop when I bought it and was shooting great.

Part of the reason I pursued building an adult arrow was because I was noticing tail-whip at times with my “kid” arrows. Thought a heavier arrow may be the ticket.

They hit where I’m aiming in the end, it just whips coming off the string.

I shot again tonight with a bunch of different field point weights and it seemed I got a lot of tail-whip except for a few weight combinations. My next opportunity to shoot this week I will bust out the paper and see how that goes. And my next trip south, I’ll be bringing my bow with to bring to the shop.

I’m pretty confident it’s me torquing it. I’ll need to work on my form.


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