scouting new piece, ignore areas with no rubs/scrapes?

[may21581]

You cannot write off an area by only observing sign from one season. As mentioned, if it has the security and everything else a buck needs, there’s a chance a good one could be there.

For example....I went back today and walked the area where I shot my buck in the fall. With what I saw for sign you’d never convince me there was a 130 living in there. There were a few scattered rubs....nothing big....not a ton....nothing that would scream big buck, but it has security and historically, good bucks within a reasonable radius around it.

And now that I think about it, where I saw the other good bucks on public last fall also did not have much for buck sign either. In these cases, it wasn’t necessarily what these spots did have that made them good....it’s what they didn’t have.....hunter pressure.

I like where you are going with this. I maintain a journal through the year and one thing I document is hunting pressure or cars in areas I have scouted or hunted. When I go back into these areas scouting the following spring the best sign is where people dont go or minimal pressure. What I mean by best sign is large tracks and fresh droppings and beds. Also the biggest tracks and droppings had no rubs or scrapes around them. At first these spots can leave you scratching your head thinking is it or isn't it a good spot? Then when you stop and you look at everything you can see it's a darn good spot.
I totally agree with the sign such as rubs and scrapes. They were most likely left after dark but possibly during the day as well. But then hunters flock to it and ruin it without taking anything into consideration and the buck then shifts his travels. So essentially these hunters are always one step behind the buck.
Pressure is the biggest influence on where you will find them walking during legal hours. After dark they roam wherever they like.
I guess this brings us to the true topic of this thread. "Core areas". Scouting and looking for core areas.

[Hawthorne]

How many of these little core areas do they have where they leave no sign? No one knows. They leave one big rub on a main land but very little sign around bedding. I know they are around. I see them in summer. They are difficult to get in day light due to the terrain.I’m going thru this right now. I know the bucks on public are 10x more sensitive to intrusion in their core area than the deer I hunt on private. They have no problem switching areas under pressure. A very successful public land big buck killer in michigan told me if you are hunting sign your 2-3 from killing good bucks.

[may21581]

How many of these little core areas do they have where they leave no sign? No one knows. They leave one big rub on a main land but very little sign around bedding. I know they are around. I see them in summer. They are difficult to get in day light due to the terrain.I’m going thru this right now. I know the bucks on public are 10x more sensitive to intrusion in their core area than the deer I hunt on private. They have no problem switching areas under pressure. A very successful public land big buck killer in michigan told me if you are hunting sign your 2-3 from killing good bucks.

All of my bucks have come from public. I have personally seen what pressure does to them. The same areas where guys have hunted for years and never killed a good buck I have witnessed the bucks switch beds early in the afternoon in broad daylight before the local traffic hit. The big bucks had them patterned and adapted to them. What they were doing was shifting beds that gave them a visual of the parking areas and main access trails while bedding in the same manor big bucks like to bed. What was funny about it was it was 50 yards from a parking lot.
Could the lack of big rubs and sign just be a sign of true dominance in an area by a buck? I mean the other ones have to compete and try to push the others out. But a true giant, would he really need to do this?

[raisins]

Thanks guys.

I guess I'm trying to shorten the process. I have no intel on the area and haven't seen good sign anywhere yet. I agree that where you see or shoot the buck doesn't need to have sign.

This piece is a little over 1,000 acres and is a valley. If I don't see any areas with the rubs I like, then I'm not sure how much I'll hunt it. For all I know, the place is overly pressured.

I'm there because it is close and I don't have a ton of options where I'm at.

Assess what you are dealing with. If its 1000 acres w multiple access trails, easy walking, open timber, close to town, allows firearms, etc... then there isnt much to get excited about IMO. Obviously that will be based on what options you have in your state. I know, not everyone has larger tracks of public like we do.

Are you putting good time into cyber scouting and mapping? What kind of terrain do you hunt?

This is WV hill country. The valley is 3 miles long and more narrow than long. There is only one easy public access and that is to walk the whole length. There are no short cuts into the back. There are large tracts of private woods surrounding it so private land owners probably don't mess with it because they have better hunting on their land. I have only scouted around 1.5 miles in so far. I might report back with better news. It allows firearms and is near a small town but within 1 hour of larger towns. There is open timber, but I'm sticking to the thick stuff.

Pressure in WV is very high because many people hunt and shoot any buck they see, and game laws allow 3 bucks per year of any size.

I have cyber scouted and I'm spending my time walking habitat transitions, military crests, saddles, and points/fingers.

Put some more miles in and see what you find. I wouldnt say that is enough ground to judge a whole property. Anytime I come home w my head down, I try to go harder next outing and usually find what im looking for.

One other major factor to consider is other predators and hunting deer in different regions. That plays into pressure but I think gets overlooked. If you have bears, wolves, mt lions or even just pigs then I think a guy has a tougher challenge locating them. Add in high hunting pressure, w firearms and no antler limit then id imagine that is very tough task.

Keep at it! Trust your gut! Do some searching and I highly suggest reaching out to someone around your region too. Bounce ideas and questions off of each other. I guarantee things accelerate quickly

Thanks. You're right that I need more hunting buddies. My plan was to join a local 3D league this spring, but I have an injured wrist at the moment (and hope I won't need surgery). In WV, we have black bears, coyotes, and domestic dogs as deer predators.

I'm planning to go to a saddle this year, so if i have to walk 3 miles in it won't be quite as brutal. I have a feeling once I get past 2 miles in that things will change. I live in the most unhealthy state in the US, I hate that it is so but I think it will help me out on this piece.