Hunting creek bottoms and thermals

[jwetzel52]

So I found a really promising bed on an oxbow in a creek bottom. Looks like they bed there on any wind as the bed is basically a giant circle. The bottom is relatively open and they can see for quite a ways. The blue stand pin is a possible stand location but I’m worried the thermals will get me. Any ideas what I can do? I don’t want any bucks using this bed to have a free ride!

[<DK>]

Hi jwetzel52 and welcome

It looks like a really great spot and I would be excited as well.

I would not consider that creek a major thermal factor unless maybe you are right on top of it. Depends on the day and location. If you mean the stand to the Left of the pic then it def is not a factor. Consider the hard transition lines where cedars meet hardwoods meet open field. That will effect what you see more than the water. If the banks of the creek are 10ft or higher you can use that as a wind advantage.

I marked your map w a few spots that jumped out at me.

WHITE - Sets I like bc of terrain
RED - Buck Travel
GREENS - Transition Lines
BLUE - Creek
Lt. BLUE - Saddle/Cut


Notice how the transition lines meet eachother and how the woods along the creek creates a natural edge and funnel. Also notice the inside corner of the field. He will use terrain/transitions to get to his destinations. They do like to follow the creek edges and this could be a jackpot area during early season - or anytime really. The right side of that saddle looks great! Close enough to kill, great transition line and good wind setup to beat him.

I would personally go back in, walk that entire creek and field edges to see how he like to use the area. Hang an orange vest around the bedding, walk each direction and get just barely out of sight. When its green or leaves on the trees he for sure cant see you. Now if you setup in that creek bottom area you could see some tough wind/thermal scenarios. Not necessarily bc of the water but bc of the terrain.

[<DK>]

Since you are un-sure, I would re-address the area and get a good handle on things. It does look like a spot worth the time. He obviously has options to travel safely.

[jwetzel52]

Thanks for the input!! A lot better advice than I got on the Facebook page for the Hunting Beast. So I guess I wasn’t super clear in the original post but the sides of this creek bottom are kind of steep so would my thermals drop straight down to the bottom of the ridge and follow the creek? I haven’t had a chance to do a full blown scouting session of the area but this new picture is what I did find. The green line is the hard transition between hardwoods and swampy under brush. The blue is the trails I found from the bed to the top of the ridge with the field. Orange circle is a point the trails lead to with a bunch of oaks. The two white dots I added are possible stand locations and the white X is possible observation set. What are your thoughts? I never hunted creeks or creek bottoms before let alone public so this is all new to me but I’m very excited!

[<DK>]

sides of this creek bottom are kind of steep so would my thermals drop straight down to the bottom of the ridge and follow the creek? I haven’t had a chance to do a full blown scouting session of the area but this new picture is what I did find. The green line is the hard transition between hardwoods and swampy under brush. The blue is the trails I found from the bed to the top of the ridge with the field. Orange circle is a point the trails lead to with a bunch of oaks. The two white dots I added are possible stand locations and the white X is possible observation set. What are your thoughts? I never hunted creeks or creek bottoms before let alone public so this is all new to me but I’m very excited!

Water thermals will vary based on the water type itself and weather. Hard to say what will happen exactly so you need to get back in there (on a huntable wind) and check it. When the PM thermal shift happens - yes the bottom will for sure drop out but you have to have a solid setup regarldess until that time. I still think the terrain / transitions will affect what you see more than water thermals. If its deep, always full or possibly moving then yes I could see some type of effect happening. Aside from that - exactly what you described is how I would cheat. Having the wind carry my scent to the creek and allow the banks to kill it or carry it. This is a great tactic in certain spots and if you have a tree on the edge then it makes it easier. You could also boat in.

If the orange circle is acorn flat or patch then I would be there early season. Id bet if you checked it pre season you will find velvet rubs. I like the white dot in the circle bc its between transition lines but youll have to dive it and see whats available. If hes bedding in the oxbow w W/SW then could be a tough setup. The patch is very close to bedding but he should use heaviest cover to get there and he could be the last deer to hit the patch.

Your white X is smart thinking but too close for observation. Good spot for a trail cam tho. For observation youll need to back off. If you cant - then just run a cam or check for tracks/sign. Youll know once you start paying attention to them.

I highly suggest diving in asap to check it again. Unless youre going to check pre season and shoot sets from the hip but it gets touchy then and not as confident. I would walk both field edges, acorn patch, the entire creek and check the patch of timber where the blue X is. Across the creek from his beds in the oxbow. Walk that creek and you will find trail crossings. Some may be just does but there will be preferred buck crossing spots - EXCELLENT place to drop a cam. You can walk the creek leaving minimal scent too. It would also be wise to kick up some deer and see about satellite bedding. If hes got does or young bucks around it will be tougher.

Lastly - very important to know before season is what or if crops get planted in these fields. You can call the conservation in the summer and ask for that info. I could see him hitting that acorn patch on his way to the W field for the PM and hold up there until dark. Another factor would be AM bed hunting, he could feed on those acorns on his way back to bed. Or possibly lay down between the patch and bedding before sunrise, then shift to the bedding.

[<DK>]

This is just a doodle I made for the discussion of wind and transition lines.

WHITE - Wind
GREEN - Transitions
PINK - Bowl


So on a W wind the wind will be consistent blowing across the field but then it will hit that wall of cedars on the edge. You need to see what the wind does IN the timber after it hits the wall. It could and will change the direction. Another factor will be his bedding area (which there is probably other spots you didnt see). Basically that oxbow area is his bowl. You can see how it open up w transitions/terrain on each side. This is where it will pool/swirl and guarantee thats why he lives there. Aside from encroaching close enough to get a shot at him, you will have to battle this to be successful.

Great spot tho man. Good luck with it

[jwetzel52]

Thanks so much for the advice! Definitely making me feel more confident in finding that hole in his armor there! Thanks for all the ideas and I will definitely throw some of those at him this fall. Wish those fields were crop fields but they’re just open ground with native grasses.

[DaveT1963]

I prefer hunting from first light until the sun shifts the thermals (usually 1-2 hours after full light) in creek bottoms. Then I will typically move up a bit mid morning. Thermals in mornings are far more consistent then at any other time of the day (most days). There are usually a few spots right in the creek bottoms where thermals will take you scent straight up until the sun warms them up and the thermals start pulling up the sides of the bottom. Afternoons are just far less predictable IME unless there is a solid terrain feature you can play the wind off of.

[jwetzel52]

That makes sense. Being new to this style of hunting is daunting as there’s a lot of new information for me to process but I’m willing to learn and I never thought of thermal before this either. How would you hunt this spot?

[DaveT1963]

There are a lot of factors to consider. One, how deep and fast is the water moving. Water movement can influence wind. In a lot of areas where I hunt, setting up right next to the water, especially on calm mornings, the water movement can alter your scent just enough to where a traveling buck can think he has wind advantage while it actually is being manipulated right at the creek edge slightly off wind. Also, in the Am, for a mature buck, you really need to think how they will want to approach that bedding. There are plenty of locations where setting up to hunt the actual bedding area just is not the right place. For those, I set up on their approach during early morning. It is hit or miss but usually I can work a creek and get in/out without the buck knowing I was even there. I have always had much better success when I set up right on the creek and use it for access. I often only touch the ground for 5-10 yards before i am up in a tree. And if I can, I will pick a tree right in some nasty thick stuff so the deer don't travel there and thus really have no idea I came and went. It really is all about location. Also, when you are scouting, I hope you are carrying milk weed so you can really do a lot of analysis on how the wind actually acts at location. INE there are no hard rules on wind in creek bottoms, terrain and individual factors (shade, timing ie. before/after leaf drop, wind speed, foliage density, how low the crown of trees are, water depth and movement, etc. can all effect the wind and make it do things you would not think. So I guess my point is, take everything with a grain of salt - but scout it with a notebook and milk weed and learn what it actually does where you want to hunt. The ideal tree in the wrong location (where swirling occurs) does not do you much good, but traveling just 30-40 yards further along the creek and you might find a thermal that is far better and has a better access but it is in a crap tree.... I am hunting the crap tree. Last tip - scout during the time you want to hunt. If you plan on hunting this spot in the AM than go scout it and learn what the wind is doing in the area from daylight to thermal shift. every creek bottom is slightly different.

So to answer your question, It really depends, but I would scout it and learn the wind and I personally would look for a pinch point on his approach very close to the actual creek for Am hunting. And Ii would make sure i had good entry/access.... barring this, I would set up for different wind directions further out on his AM approach to the area. One final thing, everyone thinks mature bucks bed in oxbows - and they do. but from mid Oct - the entire rut I find the outside bend of oxbows far better for several reasons. One of the main reasons, the does bed in the oxbow with the wind blowing into it - a smart mature buck will bed across the creek and downwind so he can scent check if a hot doe is present. So if it is a shallow or narrow creek they will bed downwind and have an additional safety factor of the water to protect against predators that KNOW where the majority of deer bed. The other spot I like is at the actual mouth of oxbows to either side. bucks will travel across oxbows and check the doe trails going into the oxbow for a hot doe. You have to play the wind by setting up to the sides so your wind doesn't dump into the oxbow. These are killer spots for late morning cruising bucks and there are very often tight pinch points at these locations that bump hard against a tree line edge or where hardwoods/softwoods create an edge.

[PK_]

Thanks for the input!! A lot better advice than I got on the Facebook page for the Hunting Beast. So I guess I wasn’t super clear in the original post but the sides of this creek bottom are kind of steep so would my thermals drop straight down to the bottom of the ridge and follow the creek? I haven’t had a chance to do a full blown scouting session of the area but this new picture is what I did find. The green line is the hard transition between hardwoods and swampy under brush. The blue is the trails I found from the bed to the top of the ridge with the field. Orange circle is a point the trails lead to with a bunch of oaks. The two white dots I added are possible stand locations and the white X is possible observation set. What are your thoughts? I never hunted creeks or creek bottoms before let alone public so this is all new to me but I’m very excited!

Look at the rub line in connection to the topo lines. He is using the easiest path but also the wisest for his using nose in the evening. My initial instinct was exactly where you put tgat white dot in the orange circle. However I bet my bottom dollar on a calm evening your thermals sucks down toward that water (not because of the water but because of the topography)and you likely get busted before shot. So I would go between that dot and the creek so you are slightly downhill of rub line just before it turns uphill...

[RiverBottoms]

There are a lot of factors to consider. One, how deep and fast is the water moving. Water movement can influence wind. In a lot of areas where I hunt, setting up right next to the water, especially on calm mornings, the water movement can alter your scent just enough to where a traveling buck can think he has wind advantage while it actually is being manipulated right at the creek edge slightly off wind. Also, in the Am, for a mature buck, you really need to think how they will want to approach that bedding. There are plenty of locations where setting up to hunt the actual bedding area just is not the right place. For those, I set up on their approach during early morning. It is hit or miss but usually I can work a creek and get in/out without the buck knowing I was even there. I have always had much better success when I set up right on the creek and use it for access. I often only touch the ground for 5-10 yards before i am up in a tree. And if I can, I will pick a tree right in some nasty thick stuff so the deer don't travel there and thus really have no idea I came and went. It really is all about location. Also, when you are scouting, I hope you are carrying milk weed so you can really do a lot of analysis on how the wind actually acts at location. INE there are no hard rules on wind in creek bottoms, terrain and individual factors (shade, timing ie. before/after leaf drop, wind speed, foliage density, how low the crown of trees are, water depth and movement, etc. can all effect the wind and make it do things you would not think. So I guess my point is, take everything with a grain of salt - but scout it with a notebook and milk weed and learn what it actually does where you want to hunt. The ideal tree in the wrong location (where swirling occurs) does not do you much good, but traveling just 30-40 yards further along the creek and you might find a thermal that is far better and has a better access but it is in a crap tree.... I am hunting the crap tree. Last tip - scout during the time you want to hunt. If you plan on hunting this spot in the AM than go scout it and learn what the wind is doing in the area from daylight to thermal shift. every creek bottom is slightly different.

So to answer your question, It really depends, but I would scout it and learn the wind and I personally would look for a pinch point on his approach very close to the actual creek for Am hunting. And Ii would make sure i had good entry/access.... barring this, I would set up for different wind directions further out on his AM approach to the area. One final thing, everyone thinks mature bucks bed in oxbows - and they do. but from mid Oct - the entire rut I find the outside bend of oxbows far better for several reasons. One of the main reasons, the does bed in the oxbow with the wind blowing into it - a smart mature buck will bed across the creek and downwind so he can scent check if a hot doe is present. So if it is a shallow or narrow creek they will bed downwind and have an additional safety factor of the water to protect against predators that KNOW where the majority of deer bed. The other spot I like is at the actual mouth of oxbows to either side. bucks will travel across oxbows and check the doe trails going into the oxbow for a hot doe. You have to play the wind by setting up to the sides so your wind doesn't dump into the oxbow. These are killer spots for late morning cruising bucks and there are very often tight pinch points at these locations that bump hard against a tree line edge or where hardwoods/softwoods create an edge.

Awesome post. Thanks.

[dan]

Great tips from some of the sites top hunters, but I would add one message from my experience... Thermals and rivers / creeks are hard to predict. Water temperature and openings around the water will do crazy stuff to the wind and heat different in different spots... We can take guesses, and make predictions based on observations, but often it takes giving the spot a hunt or two and learning the wind current tenancies. They do tend to repeat themselves.

[Ahawk116]

The only thing I would add to this conversation is towards dans point. When the foliage thickens up in those hardwoods it will also effect your wind/thermals.

Get in there again with milkweed now, but when you go back to hunt it double check what’s happening with your thermals with the new wall of foliage that is around and adjust accordingly.

[jwetzel52]

Thank you everyone for your amazing advice! This is the kind of information I’ve been looking for. You guys opened up a lot of things that I did not even think of doing and I am excited to get back in there and really dissect the spot even more. When I was in the bed I did look at the creek. Seems like it’s about knee to thigh deep and was moving pretty fast but it could also be because of the run off flowing into the creek.