Ranch Ferry.

[ThePreBanMan]

Youre trading trajectory for penetration.

Penetration wont matter when youre hitting too high and too low. Its cool though, you can brag about penetration while grid searching for a deer thats alive the next day and 800 yards away...

You do realize that regardless of arrow weight, you still have to practice with what you shoot. If you practice and your setup is sighted in, trajectory isn't going to make your arrow hit higher or lower.

If youre shooting at a feeder its perfect but most people dont hunt from a feeder and wild animals seem to move frequently.

How many times have you seen on video "I ranged him at XX but he angled away more than I thought and was at XX when I released" resulting in a bad or no hit? Now add more "arch" and that multiplies the chances at a bad hit.

There is a reason most of the bigger 3D tournaments have a FPS limit. Its almost like speed has an advantage in accuracy when shooting at unknown distances.

The reason there is a speed limit at archery shoots is to make it more competitive.
If Tim Gilligham has a 32" draw and Danny McCarthy is a 27" draw, Danny is giving up 50 fps if using same setup as Tim. 10 fps per inch of draw length. Anyone with a long draw length has a speed advantage whether bow hunting or unknown yardage target shooting.

Thank you for agreeing with me, it really is common sense.

Kind of yes. It's an advantage in unknown yardage to be faster. Known yardage not so much. I hunt with a rangefinder... before any deer come in sight I already know my ranges within a yard or two. I setup for a 15 yarder preferably.
Anybody who shoots indoor vegas rounds shoot a super heavy arrow and super forgiving bow for accuracy so it goes both ways if you want to look at archery tournament side of things.

I used to compete heavily in IBO National shoots in HC, AHC, and then MBR . All unknown classes setup a decently forgiving bow and as light of an arrow as was allowed. I used the same bow for hunting but never the same arrow.

I'll add that the Koreans shoot high FOC arrows in long-range outdoor tournaments as well, and are proud of that equipment, and always place very well if not win with it. They're very consistent, especially in higher crosswinds. John Dudley talks about competing against them in a couple of his podcasts.

[Jackson Marsh]

Boy! The off season is hitting the huntingbeast forum fast and hard!




At the end of the day, shoot what works for YOU!

No kidding. This year is rough. Can’t remember the last tactical discussion I have seen here. It’s either politics or testy subjects like this or crossbows or something else that’s just as dumb.

Find what works for the individual and go out and scout so you can see if it actually works. Playing with arrows doesn’t kill deer. Being in the right tree kills deer. But what do I know

It is possible to scout and STILL tinker around with different arrow weights prior to season

I do agree that the most important aspect is to be in the right tree at the right time...some years this is almost impossible

[Jonny]

Boy! The off season is hitting the huntingbeast forum fast and hard!




At the end of the day, shoot what works for YOU!

No kidding. This year is rough. Can’t remember the last tactical discussion I have seen here. It’s either politics or testy subjects like this or crossbows or something else that’s just as dumb.

Find what works for the individual and go out and scout so you can see if it actually works. Playing with arrows doesn’t kill deer. Being in the right tree kills deer. But what do I know

It is possible to scout and STILL tinker around with different arrow weights prior to season

I do agree that the most important aspect is to be in the right tree at the right time...some years this is almost impossible

Don’t get me wrong, everybody should still have a good set up. But people also need to know that you only get out what you put in. Know plenty of people who put more effort into building arrows, tuning bows, shed hunting, running cameras over food sources instead of scouting. And every year they end up buying their meat from Walmart instead of enjoying a juicy succulent extra rare blackstrap.

Most successful hunters I ever met always prioritized scouting and learning how deer behave. Every time I think about going down rabbit holes, I tell myself that and get back on track. I don’t have as much time as I would like to devote to hunting, nobody does. Gotta make the best out of what you have and figure out what’s most important.

[Bowhunting Brian]

Jackson Marsh was right. My thread opened up a can of flaming. Lol. I like the guys channel. I Like his humor and character he displays for the channel as well. All I asked is if anyone else watched his channel and enjoyed it as well. I didn't want this to get into a big argument about arrow weights or even preferences. For that, I am sorry to you all. Shoot what ya want. It doesnt matter to anyone else. What I don't get is why the R.F. haters or anti heavy arrow guys even click on the thread? Why not just skip it and move on? No more posts on this thread for me. I gotta check out some more Ranch Ferry Vids. "Get some adult arrows. Ha Ha Haaaaaaa!" R.F.

[tgreeno]

I believe in: Shoot what you're comfortable, as long as you practice with it!

I don't like comparing target shooting to hunting. IMO...Two totally different things completely. Shooting live game is the real deal. I know guys who are great archers on targets, but miss or wound way more deer than they should.

[Wannabelikedan]

I subscribe to his channel. I have snorted the “fairy dust”. I send him stuff to put up on his channel quite often (mostly pigs). I think until people have seen a weakness in their arrow setup, or blinded by ignorance to even recognize it, they won’t know how good it gets the closer to “Ashby” style you build an arrow. It takes a little extra work to make the world right with them but it’s not rocket science. I haven’t seen a Levi Morgan, a Tim Gillingham, or a John Dudley’s lifetime work/philosophy get bow hunting legalized in any countries. If you want to bowhunt in Africa you can thank Ashby. And now you can bowhunt Russia thanks to him. Ultimately it’s your choice what you shoot at an animal. I don’t pay your bills.

[hokiehunter373]

Does anyone know other guys/groups of hunters who film that also shoot higher weight/FOC setups outside of RF and THP?

[The_Real_Jmill]

I do have a question for the high FOC/heavy arrow group just cause the gears are turning and I'm no expert.

Would it be more advantageous to run a higher FOC arrow that may weigh slightly less overall total arrow weight (8.5-9.5 GPI, total arrow weight 500-ish gr. 19% FOC), or a thicker walled (11+ GPI arrow, total arrow weight closer to 600gr. and 14-15% FOC).

Would sacrificing total overall arrow weight (light GPI arrows) to achieve higher FOC ( heavier insert/broad heads) inadvertently cause a less durable overall hunting shaft?

[Twenty Up]

I do have a question for the high FOC/heavy arrow group just cause the gears are turning and I'm no expert.

Would it be more advantageous to run a higher FOC arrow that may weigh slightly less overall total arrow weight (8.5-9.5 GPI, total arrow weight 500-ish gr. 19% FOC), or a thicker walled (11+ GPI arrow, total arrow weight closer to 600gr. and 14-15% FOC).

Would sacrificing total overall arrow weight (light GPI arrows) to achieve higher FOC ( heavier insert/broad heads) inadvertently cause a less durable overall hunting shaft?

You want most of your weight up front (light GPI shaft and heavy inserts/heads).

Somewhere in Ashby’s studies he mentioned a 19%FOC threshold, apparently 19% or higher is that “sweet spot” for arrow flight/penetration. Think he mentioned experienced 40-60% better penetration yields on large African game with 19-30% FOC setups.

A lot of folks will say that a 600..700.. grain 20+FOC arrow isn’t necessary for game such as Whitetails, and I agree to a certain extent. But I believe they’re seriously up to something. Arrow deflections off of brush (vines, twigs, leaves, grass) things that cannot be seen at 20 yards and through a peep sight, Will deflect your arrows.

The main reason I’m testing a 510 grain & 695 grain arrow setups this Summer is because a dead twig deflected my arrow and caused a 1’ change in trajectory. The buck I shot at was 12 yards and broadside, my arrow’s vane had clipped a dead twig and sent it 1’ off course. Easy to speculate and guess but worth my time testing.

Just think is it easier to deflect a ping pong ball at 100MPH or a brick at 50MPH?

[hcooper84]

I also plan on buying into the Ranch Fairy hype. I have hunted with mechanicals for the past three years and each year I have shot a nice mature buck with them. All were little to no track job. I completely believe any broadhead can work. However, in no way would i be confident with trying to stick one through a shoulder on a quartering to shot. This is even with me shooting 70lbs and having a long draw length being 6'4". Many things he says have made sense to me. Especially with the arrow spines. I have definitely noticed my arrows fishtailing but they ended up on target so I didn't really think about it. Watching his videos and finding the right setup for myself I dont think I'll second guess sending one through the front shoulder on a quartering to shot.

It's not that the normal way doesn't work, this just seems like a way to present myself with more opportunities.

Also where you hunt could make more of a decision on what you shoot. Where I hunt rarely have I been presented with a shot over 30-40 yards. In the intro of Ranch Fairy it does show a success story of someone shooting an elk at 52 or 62 yards I believe.

He is goofy and fun. Think that makes some people love him and some people hate him. Guy seems to do more than his fair share of research though.

[Bowonly]

Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.

Agreed.

Aside from quartering away and hitting the off leg, Most arrows I've left in deer have been from hitting a non lethal spot. I appreciate the benefits of heavy, stiff arrows but more penetration doesn't automatically mean dead deer. Nothing trumps shot selection and placement.

[ThePreBanMan]

Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.

Agreed.

Aside from quartering away and hitting the off leg, Most arrows I've left in deer have been from hitting a non lethal spot. I appreciate the benefits of heavy, stiff arrows but more penetration doesn't automatically mean dead deer. Nothing trumps shot selection and placement.

I think we're losing sight of the intent though. Yea shot placement is king. But what about when that goes wrong? That's when Ashby's arrows will help you. As for what percentage of vitals are covered by bone, that depends upon the position of the front leg at the time of the shot, right. It could be a little. It could be a lot. If the shot is quartering towards, it's nearly 100%.

[BorealBushMN]

I’m buying what the RF is selling, all day! While I won’t take it to the extreme as he does with 1000g+ setups, I definitely see the benefits of an Adult Arrow setup.

[DaveT1963]

I screw in a big simmons, on either a 2117 aluminum or into a brass insert on a GT 55/75 and then make sure they are flying straight. Outside of that I don't test or really care what the FOC is, not overly concerned with the weight - it passes through if I do my part. This is not rocket science, heavy arrows with CoC broadheads used to be the norm.

[Bowonly]

Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.

Agreed.

Aside from quartering away and hitting the off leg, Most arrows I've left in deer have been from hitting a non lethal spot. I appreciate the benefits of heavy, stiff arrows but more penetration doesn't automatically mean dead deer. Nothing trumps shot selection and placement.

I think we're losing sight of the intent though. Yea shot placement is king. But what about when that goes wrong? That's when Ashby's arrows will help you. As for what percentage of vitals are covered by bone, that depends upon the position of the front leg at the time of the shot, right. It could be a little. It could be a lot. If the shot is quartering towards, it's nearly 100%.

I get it and I'm definitely not making a case against more penetration. That said, most deer I've lost were complete pass throughs anyway.

RF puts out some good info if you can stomach his delivery. I just don't think a 650 grain "handload" with 2 blade single bevels is required medicine for whitetail.