Ranch Ferry.

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
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The_Real_Jmill
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby The_Real_Jmill » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:30 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:
The_Real_Jmill wrote:I will say all hunters should use whatever hunting setup floats their boat as long as they are proficient and it is legal.

But I do find it intriguing so many are jumping on the wagon to completely overhaul their arrow setups for whitetail. Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.

There is no magic in heavy arrow setups, yes they penetrate better but the hunter still has to do their part making an accurate and ethical shot.



In a perfect world where the animal is perfectly broadside, unobstructed, not moving, doesn't jump the string, etc... Sure. Heavy, high FoC arrows really aren't going to help in perfect situations like that. They're for situations like quartering to shots, or partially obstructed shots where the only angle at both lungs is through the shoulder, or for when we make a mistake and hit "a little too far forward". When everything goes absolutely perfect, even a light arrow with a field point will kill a deer. But that's not what we're discussing.


You say perfect and I would say ethical.

I don't take quartering too shots or shots where deer are moving or vitals are obstructed and I don't think anyone should regardless of setup, but to each their own. I've only ever taken broadside and quartering away and all within 25 yards, this is what I was taught and it has served me well in my 15+ years of bow hunting.

If altering equipment is to make up for poor decision making/shot attempts then it is being done for the wrong reason.

Accidents happen but a low percentage shot is a low percentage shot.

No magic in this game, just smart well placed shots.
Last edited by The_Real_Jmill on Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.


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The_Real_Jmill
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby The_Real_Jmill » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:32 am

Jackson Marsh wrote:
Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:



but, but, but, but the internet guy says I need to change :lol: :lol:

I'm gonna play around with it prior to summer shooting and see what happens....might end up back where I started ;)


:lol: there may be a lot of others in the same boat.

If you do play around with it and have success let us know the setup and the results.

Always like seeing different setups and how they work.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby JakeB » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:33 am

The_Real_Jmill wrote:I will say all hunters should use whatever hunting setup floats their boat as long as they are proficient and it is legal.

But I do find it intriguing so many are jumping on the wagon to completely overhaul their arrow setups for whitetail. Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.

There is no magic in heavy arrow setups, yes they penetrate better but the hunter still has to do their part making an accurate and ethical shot.


Image

With that said, I shoot a 500 gr arrow with a mechanical, if I could get a true 2” cut fixed blade that didn’t plane like a hang glider I’d probably shoot that. I like big holes on deer and I’ve shot my share of hogs mostly in the 100# range though.

And to the guy saying I’ve never shot real heavy arrows I’ve got some 650 gr arrows sitting in a case I’ll make you a deal on.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby EllieTheChubb » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:54 am

Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:


My local bow guru's take on adult arrows: "how far do you want the arrow to stick in the ground after it goes through the deer?"

The main reason why THP switched to single bevel heavier arrows is because of all the ground hunting they do. For the average stand hunter its just not necessary. That said its fun to play around with your tackle. Am I going to do an arrow overhaul? No. That said anything that gets people thinking about their gear and shooting more is good for the sport.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Trout » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:07 am

I think with stuff like this, it's easy for guys like "us" to think everyone else is hunting with similar arrow setups. Most of "us" probably arent shooting the lightest arrow our bow can safely shoot like a lot of "regukar" guys are.

Let's say I shot 70#, 29" draw and a 400 grain arrow with a rage hypodermic on the front. That's a fairly light whitetail setup, even for non Ashby system followers. With that setup, a guy needs to pick his shot placement carefully or any bone, including ribs, could create an issue. Pass through shots are possible, but non-pass through are probably more common.

Anyone in that department is gonna really benefit from watching ranch fairy and thinking about a heavier setup- even if they stick with my mechanicals and only go up to 475 or 500 grains. Even if they only go up to 450 grains.

The longer I'm around the archery industry, the more I see that big pendulum swing from one side of the spectrum to the next, and back again. Current cam technology has about reached its limit. Bows arent getting much faster anymore, so its time to sell us on heavier arrows. When someone invents a new cam that pushes new limits on speed, it will be time to sell us on speed again. What's interesting to me on the current heavier arrow fad is it's not being pushed by the industry as much as it is guys on internet forums.

Last thing I will say is more efficient arrow setups are good for hunters and deer, even if they are overkill, and that's a good thing to see people excited about.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Twenty Up » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:51 am

As with anything there’s a bell curve, here it’s between arrow weight/FOC and Speed.

This is a personal question you need to ask yourself, “how many deer am I missing high/low?”

Personally, I’ve missed a lot of deer high or low because I never had the opportunity to range them. Most have been off of the ground walking to a spot, during the rut etc..

There’s a significant difference between 32 yards and 40. I learned this the hard way after missing a 153 1/8th buck, confirmed when my buddies boss had killed him :violin:

For me, 270-280 FPS is the “sweet spot”, trying to squeeze out 12% FOC and around 450 grains total arrow weight.

Nobody cares how far your arrow stuck in the ground if you misjudge the yardage ;)
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby EllieTheChubb » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:46 pm

Trout wrote:I think with stuff like this, it's easy for guys like "us" to think everyone else is hunting with similar arrow setups. Most of "us" probably arent shooting the lightest arrow our bow can safely shoot like a lot of "regukar" guys are.

Let's say I shot 70#, 29" draw and a 400 grain arrow with a rage hypodermic on the front. That's a fairly light whitetail setup, even for non Ashby system followers. With that setup, a guy needs to pick his shot placement carefully or any bone, including ribs, could create an issue. Pass through shots are possible, but non-pass through are probably more common.

Anyone in that department is gonna really benefit from watching ranch fairy and thinking about a heavier setup- even if they stick with my mechanicals and only go up to 475 or 500 grains. Even if they only go up to 450 grains.

The longer I'm around the archery industry, the more I see that big pendulum swing from one side of the spectrum to the next, and back again. Current cam technology has about reached its limit. Bows arent getting much faster anymore, so its time to sell us on heavier arrows. When someone invents a new cam that pushes new limits on speed, it will be time to sell us on speed again. What's interesting to me on the current heavier arrow fad is it's not being pushed by the industry as much as it is guys on internet forums.

Last thing I will say is more efficient arrow setups are good for hunters and deer, even if they are overkill, and that's a good thing to see people excited about.



You're definitely right there. If you just shoot some box arrows and 100g BH you are probably just above or below 400g. Thats like shooting low brass in a shotgun. Adding an extra 50-100g will quiet your bow down and increase your penetration.

The easiest thing most hunters can do to increase penetration is going cut on contact and sharpening them. Dont just assume they are good right out of the box.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:54 pm

The_Real_Jmill wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
The_Real_Jmill wrote:I will say all hunters should use whatever hunting setup floats their boat as long as they are proficient and it is legal.

But I do find it intriguing so many are jumping on the wagon to completely overhaul their arrow setups for whitetail. Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.

There is no magic in heavy arrow setups, yes they penetrate better but the hunter still has to do their part making an accurate and ethical shot.



In a perfect world where the animal is perfectly broadside, unobstructed, not moving, doesn't jump the string, etc... Sure. Heavy, high FoC arrows really aren't going to help in perfect situations like that. They're for situations like quartering to shots, or partially obstructed shots where the only angle at both lungs is through the shoulder, or for when we make a mistake and hit "a little too far forward". When everything goes absolutely perfect, even a light arrow with a field point will kill a deer. But that's not what we're discussing.


You say perfect and I would say ethical.

I don't take quartering too shots or shots where deer are moving or vitals are obstructed and I don't think anyone should regardless of setup, but to each their own. I've only ever taken broadside and quartering away and all within 25 yards, this is what I was taught and it has served me well in my 15+ years of bow hunting.

If altering equipment is to make up for poor decision making/shot attempts then it is being done for the wrong reason.

Accidents happen but a low percentage shot is a low percentage shot.

No magic in this game, just smart well placed shots.


If you only take "ethical" shots at animals at close range presenting wide-open unobstructed broadside shots while never moving, you must not have killed many deer in that 15 years of hunting. Regardless of what one person considers "ethical" or not, in the real world ____ happens as they say. As Dr. Ashby's roughly 30 years of study have scientifically shown, when it does happen and you hit that bone, you want that weight and you want it up front.

Physics don't lie son...
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Dan T » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:23 pm

No doubt the "ranch fairy" has done his homework and has a lot to offer. But I can't swallow the talking down and dumbing down to his audience who doesn't do exactly %100 of how he does it. He mentions and forgets that his audience has just as much right to a learning curve as he did. He mentions his learning curve, but has no patience for anyone in the same learning curve he experienced. If your not doing what he does, or come up with the same questions he did, you are stupid and probably have a southern accent. That leads me to my next ranch fairy issue...are all southern accented people stupid? or does he just get stupid questions only from southern accents? He has done his work no doubt, but he has some delivery issues. I get it, your right, but everyone else isn't stupid with a southern accent just because we are not there yet or have the means to test multiple arrrow/head combinations on our salary. stop acting like the rest of us beyond your means are stupid with southern accents.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Missionshooter » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:00 pm

I'm switching my setup bc I shoot 60 lbs and I get very few pass thrus. I kill the deer,but my goal is to be as lethal and ethical as possible. I owe it to the deer.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Trout » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:33 pm

EllieTheChubb wrote:
Trout wrote:I think with stuff like this, it's easy for guys like "us" to think everyone else is hunting with similar arrow setups. Most of "us" probably arent shooting the lightest arrow our bow can safely shoot like a lot of "regukar" guys are.

Let's say I shot 70#, 29" draw and a 400 grain arrow with a rage hypodermic on the front. That's a fairly light whitetail setup, even for non Ashby system followers. With that setup, a guy needs to pick his shot placement carefully or any bone, including ribs, could create an issue. Pass through shots are possible, but non-pass through are probably more common.

Anyone in that department is gonna really benefit from watching ranch fairy and thinking about a heavier setup- even if they stick with my mechanicals and only go up to 475 or 500 grains. Even if they only go up to 450 grains.

The longer I'm around the archery industry, the more I see that big pendulum swing from one side of the spectrum to the next, and back again. Current cam technology has about reached its limit. Bows arent getting much faster anymore, so its time to sell us on heavier arrows. When someone invents a new cam that pushes new limits on speed, it will be time to sell us on speed again. What's interesting to me on the current heavier arrow fad is it's not being pushed by the industry as much as it is guys on internet forums.

Last thing I will say is more efficient arrow setups are good for hunters and deer, even if they are overkill, and that's a good thing to see people excited about.



You're definitely right there. If you just shoot some box arrows and 100g BH you are probably just above or below 400g. Thats like shooting low brass in a shotgun. Adding an extra 50-100g will quiet your bow down and increase your penetration.



That's the thing, that's not even a "box" arrow. There are pro shops setting people up.with arrows like that every day. I actually use that example because my local pro shop tried setting me up with almost exactly that arrow. There are thousands of guys pit there shooting stuff like that at deer.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Aaron1987 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:42 pm

EllieTheChubb wrote:
Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:


My local bow guru's take on adult arrows: "how far do you want the arrow to stick in the ground after it goes through the deer?"

The main reason why THP switched to single bevel heavier arrows is because of all the ground hunting they do. For the average stand hunter its just not necessary. That said its fun to play around with your tackle. Am I going to do an arrow overhaul? No. That said anything that gets people thinking about their gear and shooting more is good for the sport.


Actually we switched because of situations that happened from a tree. We’ve seen multiple deflections on broadside shots with light arrows and mechanicals. Obviously this doesn’t happen every time but on 3 separate occasions in the past 4 years arrows have deflected either off the scapula or a rib. We also have seen footage of many similar issues with light setups.

To each their own of course. If it works for you, don’t change. These are just our experiences. All issues came on fully grown mature bucks with heavier bone structure.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Aaron1987 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:51 pm

Twenty Up wrote:As with anything there’s a bell curve, here it’s between arrow weight/FOC and Speed.

This is a personal question you need to ask yourself, “how many deer am I missing high/low?”

Personally, I’ve missed a lot of deer high or low because I never had the opportunity to range them. Most have been off of the ground walking to a spot, during the rut etc..

There’s a significant difference between 32 yards and 40. I learned this the hard way after missing a 153 1/8th buck, confirmed when my buddies boss had killed him :violin:

For me, 270-280 FPS is the “sweet spot”, trying to squeeze out 12% FOC and around 450 grains total arrow weight.

Nobody cares how far your arrow stuck in the ground if you misjudge the yardage ;)


This is true but also dependent on how far you’ll comfortably shoot at a whitetail. We don’t take shots past 30 yards because we feel the impact point is more difficult to control due to deer moving at the sound of the shot.

Inside that distance, we’re not concerned with arrow drop. My pin gap from 20-30 yards barely changed when I switched from a 480 grain arrow to a 580.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby matt1336 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:57 pm

Heavy arrows and coc arrows are nothing new to bow hunting guys. Pass through shots happened a bunch with bows a lot of us wouldn’t think of using now. Something was working pretty well back in the day. Why not use the heavy arrow build with these new bows? Best of both worlds if you ask me. Im going to rethink my set up for the fall.
Aaron, thanks for doing what you all do. I’ve met a couple of you guys at deer fest and even had the opportunity to hunt a little with Jake this fall. From my experiences you all seem like down to earth and hard working guys. You guys are doing a lot of positive stuff for our sport. Thanks x10000.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby EllieTheChubb » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:07 pm

Aaron1987 wrote:
EllieTheChubb wrote:
Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:


My local bow guru's take on adult arrows: "how far do you want the arrow to stick in the ground after it goes through the deer?"

The main reason why THP switched to single bevel heavier arrows is because of all the ground hunting they do. For the average stand hunter its just not necessary. That said its fun to play around with your tackle. Am I going to do an arrow overhaul? No. That said anything that gets people thinking about their gear and shooting more is good for the sport.


Actually we switched because of situations that happened from a tree. We’ve seen multiple deflections on broadside shots with light arrows and mechanicals. Obviously this doesn’t happen every time but on 3 separate occasions in the past 4 years arrows have deflected either off the scapula or a rib. We also have seen footage of many similar issues with light setups.

To each their own of course. If it works for you, don’t change. These are just our experiences. All issues came on fully grown mature bucks with heavier bone structure.



Thanks for the correction Aaron!

I thought Zach said in one of your videos he changed his setup because of all the crp you were hunting in. Something about practicing preseason in tall grass... I guess I'm remembering wrong. My bad!


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