Why Anti Crossbow?

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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby Dewey » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:11 am

Jonny wrote:
briar wrote:I don't think it's that people care whether or not people choose to hunt with crossbows. I think it's bothersome to hand drawing bow folks when crossbow folks want to treat the two tasks as equal and are demanding the tasks be treated as equal accomplishments.

To give a "beast" example. When a member shows up with a stud in the kill zone, all beasts are supportive, but one of the first questions asked is "public?"....

It's not trying to take away from the kill, but this site is based on the challenge of public land bow hunting. The kill is not diminished if it's on a private lease in Iowa, but it's certainly not viewed as "as much" of an accomplishment as the same deer killed in a Wisconsin swamp.....the perception and truth is, the public deer was a harder goal to achieve.

A crossbow or rifle kill is still an accomplishment, but there are levels to this game.


Definitely true. And if someone is concerned with others perception of their kill, then yeah they should use a compound or even a more traditional bow. Or open the can of worms if you want to try and pass something that is easier off as harder. Don’t demand equality for things that aren’t equal.

If you are only concerned with your own perception of your hunt (which I’d hope we all fall into this category) then it doesn’t matter what you use because who cares what other thinks. Personally I am out to hunt and kill deer so using a crossbow won’t cause me to lose sleep at night. But I also hunt for my own pleasure, not to look good in a crowd. I don’t see why we need to have separate seasons because it isn’t like crossbows are killing the herd more than anything else is. But in Wisconsin the licenses are either archery or crossbow, and kills show up as either one. The seasons just happen to align. Which makes sense because the lines aren’t drawn to make them equal.


The pope and young comment is laughable whoever added that. That’s the same organization that won’t even let people use lighted nocks. I also don’t really have anything good to say about a group that makes deer hunting a competition between hunters instead of how it should be, hunter vs the animal they are after.

Better read this Jonny.

https://pope-young.org/information/news ... sp?news=14


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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby Jonny » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:04 am

Dewey wrote:
Jonny wrote:
briar wrote:I don't think it's that people care whether or not people choose to hunt with crossbows. I think it's bothersome to hand drawing bow folks when crossbow folks want to treat the two tasks as equal and are demanding the tasks be treated as equal accomplishments.

To give a "beast" example. When a member shows up with a stud in the kill zone, all beasts are supportive, but one of the first questions asked is "public?"....

It's not trying to take away from the kill, but this site is based on the challenge of public land bow hunting. The kill is not diminished if it's on a private lease in Iowa, but it's certainly not viewed as "as much" of an accomplishment as the same deer killed in a Wisconsin swamp.....the perception and truth is, the public deer was a harder goal to achieve.

A crossbow or rifle kill is still an accomplishment, but there are levels to this game.


Definitely true. And if someone is concerned with others perception of their kill, then yeah they should use a compound or even a more traditional bow. Or open the can of worms if you want to try and pass something that is easier off as harder. Don’t demand equality for things that aren’t equal.

If you are only concerned with your own perception of your hunt (which I’d hope we all fall into this category) then it doesn’t matter what you use because who cares what other thinks. Personally I am out to hunt and kill deer so using a crossbow won’t cause me to lose sleep at night. But I also hunt for my own pleasure, not to look good in a crowd. I don’t see why we need to have separate seasons because it isn’t like crossbows are killing the herd more than anything else is. But in Wisconsin the licenses are either archery or crossbow, and kills show up as either one. The seasons just happen to align. Which makes sense because the lines aren’t drawn to make them equal.


The pope and young comment is laughable whoever added that. That’s the same organization that won’t even let people use lighted nocks. I also don’t really have anything good to say about a group that makes deer hunting a competition between hunters instead of how it should be, hunter vs the animal they are after.

Better read this Jonny.

https://pope-young.org/information/news ... sp?news=14


Hmm. Wonder why I was thinking they still had them outlawed. Guess I stand corrected on the nock portion of my comment
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:42 am

xbows, compounds, traditional, in order are level of difficulty of use.

Rifles, some shotguns, then some muzzleloaders are in order of difficulty of use for firearms.

I think BEASTs have a way to figure out who is a stud in the annual voting for the contest, and really just in general.

If you shoot a slob buck with trad gear on a great well earned hunt you will probably get more votes (granted you have to have a good story too), than a bean field hunter with a 7 mag (gosh I love a 7 mag, and why I never enter the contest).

Come on lets not pick apart how some may choose, we need to be supportive of all hunting seasons and legal methods
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:45 am

I will continue. I have a good friend that is a great archer and shoots a lot of archery tournaments. He shows up one day to show me his bow. I was immediately amazed when he pulled it out and said " WOW". I said that has to be a $3,000 bow. He nodded and said yeh, pretty close.

My xbow is a $400 parker. I walk around, which is a lot of movement. He sits in a tree with way more technology. We both enjoy the chase.
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby ZSV » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:37 am

I haven’t read the whole thread. Kokes pretty much said what I was going to only better. If crossbows mean more hunters in the woods, GOOD! We need them! We’re always being attacked by anti-hunters and we’re only helping them by being against someone who hunts differently or uses a different weapon than we do.

Yes, crossbows have a longer range, but unless you’re on a field edge there aren’t many spots I’ve seen where that advantage could be used.

In the end the only type of hunters I’m against or “anti” are the ones that leave trash and carcasses in the parking lots. Leave the public land the way you found it or better! Sorry this last part was a touch off topic...
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby hoyt31786 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:20 am

Jonny wrote:
briar wrote:I don't think it's that people care whether or not people choose to hunt with crossbows. I think it's bothersome to hand drawing bow folks when crossbow folks want to treat the two tasks as equal and are demanding the tasks be treated as equal accomplishments.

To give a "beast" example. When a member shows up with a stud in the kill zone, all beasts are supportive, but one of the first questions asked is "public?"....

It's not trying to take away from the kill, but this site is based on the challenge of public land bow hunting. The kill is not diminished if it's on a private lease in Iowa, but it's certainly not viewed as "as much" of an accomplishment as the same deer killed in a Wisconsin swamp.....the perception and truth is, the public deer was a harder goal to achieve.

A crossbow or rifle kill is still an accomplishment, but there are levels to this game.


Definitely true. And if someone is concerned with others perception of their kill, then yeah they should use a compound or even a more traditional bow. Or open the can of worms if you want to try and pass something that is easier off as harder. Don’t demand equality for things that aren’t equal.

If you are only concerned with your own perception of your hunt (which I’d hope we all fall into this category) then it doesn’t matter what you use because who cares what other thinks. Personally I am out to hunt and kill deer so using a crossbow won’t cause me to lose sleep at night. But I also hunt for my own pleasure, not to look good in a crowd. I don’t see why we need to have separate seasons because it isn’t like crossbows are killing the herd more than anything else is. But in Wisconsin the licenses are either archery or crossbow, and kills show up as either one. The seasons just happen to align. Which makes sense because the lines aren’t drawn to make them equal.


The pope and young comment is laughable whoever added that. That’s the same organization that won’t even let people use lighted nocks. I also don’t really have anything good to say about a group that makes deer hunting a competition between hunters instead of how it should be, hunter vs the animal they are after.



It's more laughable you say they are a group that makes hunting a competition between hunters! You obviously dont know what they have done and continue to do for the bowhunting heritage and conservation. If you think it's all about ego then you have missed the point. Many states wildlife agencies use their data to make decisions. It honors the animal more than anything. Yea God forbid a group that supports good fair chase ethics. Guess u better not support NBA,MLB,NFL,QDMA, or any organization that sets rules or guidelines.
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby stash59 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:55 am

hoyt31786 wrote:
Jonny wrote:
briar wrote:I don't think it's that people care whether or not people choose to hunt with crossbows. I think it's bothersome to hand drawing bow folks when crossbow folks want to treat the two tasks as equal and are demanding the tasks be treated as equal accomplishments.

To give a "beast" example. When a member shows up with a stud in the kill zone, all beasts are supportive, but one of the first questions asked is "public?"....

It's not trying to take away from the kill, but this site is based on the challenge of public land bow hunting. The kill is not diminished if it's on a private lease in Iowa, but it's certainly not viewed as "as much" of an accomplishment as the same deer killed in a Wisconsin swamp.....the perception and truth is, the public deer was a harder goal to achieve.

A crossbow or rifle kill is still an accomplishment, but there are levels to this game.


Definitely true. And if someone is concerned with others perception of their kill, then yeah they should use a compound or even a more traditional bow. Or open the can of worms if you want to try and pass something that is easier off as harder. Don’t demand equality for things that aren’t equal.

If you are only concerned with your own perception of your hunt (which I’d hope we all fall into this category) then it doesn’t matter what you use because who cares what other thinks. Personally I am out to hunt and kill deer so using a crossbow won’t cause me to lose sleep at night. But I also hunt for my own pleasure, not to look good in a crowd. I don’t see why we need to have separate seasons because it isn’t like crossbows are killing the herd more than anything else is. But in Wisconsin the licenses are either archery or crossbow, and kills show up as either one. The seasons just happen to align. Which makes sense because the lines aren’t drawn to make them equal.


The pope and young comment is laughable whoever added that. That’s the same organization that won’t even let people use lighted nocks. I also don’t really have anything good to say about a group that makes deer hunting a competition between hunters instead of how it should be, hunter vs the animal they are after.



It's more laughable you say they are a group that makes hunting a competition between hunters! You obviously dont know what they have done and continue to do for the bowhunting heritage and conservation. If you think it's all about ego then you have missed the point. Many states wildlife agencies use their data to make decisions. It honors the animal more than anything. Yea God forbid a group that supports good fair chase ethics. Guess u better not support NBA,MLB,NFL,QDMA, or any organization that sets rules or guidelines.


The reality of the P&Y club was that it was set up by and is still heavily influenced by trad shooters. I do agree with alot of their basic principles on ethics and fair chase. But in many ways they have fought hard against the advances in technology that we see these days with bowhunting gear. What gear we use is personal. If it really bothers them then why not have different categories for animals shot with trad bows than those shot with compounds. Have higher minimums for compounds. And who really is negatively affected by someone using a crossbow during "bow season"? Last I listened a crossbow doesn't go bang!!

Originally the B&C club set up scoring and minumum scores for a way to help keep track of a species health in a given area. If animals were occasionally taken that met the minimum. That species health could be considered in good condition in that area. So yes the B&C was more about promoting those "special" animals.

When P&Y started they drastically lowered those minimums. Many of which were much lower than they are today. This had little to do with herd health and much more to do with self promotion. Look at what I accomplished with a much less effective weapon. So in my eyes P&Y is much more about the hunter and less about the animal.

Yes, I'm sure the liberal bow seasons in most states are in place. Because of the actions of the P&Y club. And I'm thankful for that. But IMHO once their scoring and awards system was set in place. Is where all of this "but how much does it score" or "it's too young to kill" attitude of what's now more important these days started.
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby SplitG2 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:05 am

I’ve used both a crossbow and compound. Hunted with a crossbow from the age of 12 til I was 23 and have hunted the last 16 years with a compound. To each his own on his beliefs or what weapon he chooses, it’s nothing to get heated or mad about. But what I will say for those that think crossbows are easier, that may be true for some but I can tell you that it ain’t how everyone feels, I think compound is much easier than crossbow. I’ve thought that from my very first walk to a tree with a compound to the very first deer I killed with a compound and still feel the same way today.
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby A5BLASTER » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:13 am

I say this.

I will hunt how I want and with whatever weapon package is in season and legal to use in my state.

Others can do as they wish and is legal.

I don't give two spits what others hunt with, are the size,sex, rack size and or age class of what they kill.

And I give less then two spits what others think of how I hunt and or what I choose to kill.

As to the record book keeping, I could give even less of a dam about all that mess.

I don't hunt to kill animals to get my name in a book, become famous are make a check of the rack. I hunt because I love it and live to eat what I kill.

So in short I screw them and that and just do you and enjoy your hunting.
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby Grizzlyadam » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:20 am

SplitG2 wrote:I’ve used both a crossbow and compound. Hunted with a crossbow from the age of 12 til I was 23 and have hunted the last 16 years with a compound. To each his own on his beliefs or what weapon he chooses, it’s nothing to get heated or mad about. But what I will say for those that think crossbows are easier, that may be true for some but I can tell you that it ain’t how everyone feels, I think compound is much easier than crossbow. I’ve thought that from my very first walk to a tree with a compound to the very first deer I killed with a compound and still feel the same way today.


I'm curious why you think that a compound is much easier than crossbow? Easier in what way?
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby hoyt31786 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:54 am

stash59 wrote:
hoyt31786 wrote:
Jonny wrote:
briar wrote:I don't think it's that people care whether or not people choose to hunt with crossbows. I think it's bothersome to hand drawing bow folks when crossbow folks want to treat the two tasks as equal and are demanding the tasks be treated as equal accomplishments.

To give a "beast" example. When a member shows up with a stud in the kill zone, all beasts are supportive, but one of the first questions asked is "public?"....

It's not trying to take away from the kill, but this site is based on the challenge of public land bow hunting. The kill is not diminished if it's on a private lease in Iowa, but it's certainly not viewed as "as much" of an accomplishment as the same deer killed in a Wisconsin swamp.....the perception and truth is, the public deer was a harder goal to achieve.

A crossbow or rifle kill is still an accomplishment, but there are levels to this game.


Definitely true. And if someone is concerned with others perception of their kill, then yeah they should use a compound or even a more traditional bow. Or open the can of worms if you want to try and pass something that is easier off as harder. Don’t demand equality for things that aren’t equal.

If you are only concerned with your own perception of your hunt (which I’d hope we all fall into this category) then it doesn’t matter what you use because who cares what other thinks. Personally I am out to hunt and kill deer so using a crossbow won’t cause me to lose sleep at night. But I also hunt for my own pleasure, not to look good in a crowd. I don’t see why we need to have separate seasons because it isn’t like crossbows are killing the herd more than anything else is. But in Wisconsin the licenses are either archery or crossbow, and kills show up as either one. The seasons just happen to align. Which makes sense because the lines aren’t drawn to make them equal.


The pope and young comment is laughable whoever added that. That’s the same organization that won’t even let people use lighted nocks. I also don’t really have anything good to say about a group that makes deer hunting a competition between hunters instead of how it should be, hunter vs the animal they are after.



It's more laughable you say they are a group that makes hunting a competition between hunters! You obviously dont know what they have done and continue to do for the bowhunting heritage and conservation. If you think it's all about ego then you have missed the point. Many states wildlife agencies use their data to make decisions. It honors the animal more than anything. Yea God forbid a group that supports good fair chase ethics. Guess u better not support NBA,MLB,NFL,QDMA, or any organization that sets rules or guidelines.


The reality of the P&Y club was that it was set up by and is still heavily influenced by trad shooters. I do agree with alot of their basic principles on ethics and fair chase. But in many ways they have fought hard against the advances in technology that we see these days with bowhunting gear. What gear we use is personal. If it really bothers them then why not have different categories for animals shot with trad bows than those shot with compounds. Have higher minimums for compounds. And who really is negatively affected by someone using a crossbow during "bow season"? Last I listened a crossbow doesn't go bang!!

Originally the B&C club set up scoring and minumum scores for a way to help keep track of a species health in a given area. If animals were occasionally taken that met the minimum. That species health could be considered in good condition in that area. So yes the B&C was more about promoting those "special" animals.

When P&Y started they drastically lowered those minimums. Many of which were much lower than they are today. This had little to do with herd health and much more to do with self promotion. Look at what I accomplished with a much less effective weapon. So in my eyes P&Y is much more about the hunter and less about the animal.

Yes, I'm sure the liberal bow seasons in most states are in place. Because of the actions of the P&Y club. And I'm thankful for that. But IMHO once their scoring and awards system was set in place. Is where all of this "but how much does it score" or "it's too young to kill" attitude of what's now more important these days started.



Yes founded on traditional values and ethics bc at the time they were founded that's all there was..... The first Compound wasn't introduced until 5 years later. They have changed positions with technology on many things so I dont see how they have "fought hard "against. Theres certain issues yea they aren't going to alter their core values or ethical approach but it's not like they cram it down people's throat???? Yea I bet back in 1961once they started their "scoring system" everyone was saying hey look at what my buck scored for ego. Nah I think the times have changed and people have changed and turned it into that with all the media and bs out there nowadays. An organization has no control over how people abuse or act with their scoring system or what the intent was or is. If someone has an ego trip and wants to say hey I outdid you or I'm better or mine bigger you actually think they need a scoring system to do that?? All I was saying was dont blame an organization for how people act. And dont say that's all they are when they are so much more.
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby SplitG2 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:57 am

Grizzlyadam wrote:
I'm curious why you think that a compound is much easier than crossbow? Easier in what way?


I can’t speak for new crossbows, they’ve changed quite a bit from my days of toting around my Horton Supermag but they were just very cumbersome and heavy to pack thru the woods, even with a gun sling and it hanging on your back. Constantly banging and clanging against brush. Mobile hunting with them was tougher for me, especially when going in deep. As for being in the tree with a crossbow, to me it was harder to get it off the hook and get into position for a shot versus a compound. And I feel far more concealed in a tree getting into position with a compound than I ever did with a crossbow.

Again, I’m sure there’s people out there that think I’m crazy but everyone’s wired differently. There’s a million things out there that might be hard for me and easy for others and vice versa.
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby Twenty Up » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:10 am

My opinion here is that it’s not the weapon per-say but the mentality, that folks are against. I’m not referring to the youth or physically handicapped here that utilize crossbows, but the mentally handicapped.

Some folks are just looking for the easy road, not that there’s anything wrong with crossbows.. but that mindset is why people choose to trespass, spotlight etc.. as well.

I’ve met some great hunters that utilize crossbows, I’ve also met some people I wish to never run into again. The latter demographic seems to be most common with rifle/crossbow hunters.
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby stash59 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:51 am

hoyt31786 wrote:
stash59 wrote:
hoyt31786 wrote:
Jonny wrote:
briar wrote:I don't think it's that people care whether or not people choose to hunt with crossbows. I think it's bothersome to hand drawing bow folks when crossbow folks want to treat the two tasks as equal and are demanding the tasks be treated as equal accomplishments.

To give a "beast" example. When a member shows up with a stud in the kill zone, all beasts are supportive, but one of the first questions asked is "public?"....

It's not trying to take away from the kill, but this site is based on the challenge of public land bow hunting. The kill is not diminished if it's on a private lease in Iowa, but it's certainly not viewed as "as much" of an accomplishment as the same deer killed in a Wisconsin swamp.....the perception and truth is, the public deer was a harder goal to achieve.

A crossbow or rifle kill is still an accomplishment, but there are levels to this game.


Definitely true. And if someone is concerned with others perception of their kill, then yeah they should use a compound or even a more traditional bow. Or open the can of worms if you want to try and pass something that is easier off as harder. Don’t demand equality for things that aren’t equal.

If you are only concerned with your own perception of your hunt (which I’d hope we all fall into this category) then it doesn’t matter what you use because who cares what other thinks. Personally I am out to hunt and kill deer so using a crossbow won’t cause me to lose sleep at night. But I also hunt for my own pleasure, not to look good in a crowd. I don’t see why we need to have separate seasons because it isn’t like crossbows are killing the herd more than anything else is. But in Wisconsin the licenses are either archery or crossbow, and kills show up as either one. The seasons just happen to align. Which makes sense because the lines aren’t drawn to make them equal.


The pope and young comment is laughable whoever added that. That’s the same organization that won’t even let people use lighted nocks. I also don’t really have anything good to say about a group that makes deer hunting a competition between hunters instead of how it should be, hunter vs the animal they are after.



It's more laughable you say they are a group that makes hunting a competition between hunters! You obviously dont know what they have done and continue to do for the bowhunting heritage and conservation. If you think it's all about ego then you have missed the point. Many states wildlife agencies use their data to make decisions. It honors the animal more than anything. Yea God forbid a group that supports good fair chase ethics. Guess u better not support NBA,MLB,NFL,QDMA, or any organization that sets rules or guidelines.


The reality of the P&Y club was that it was set up by and is still heavily influenced by trad shooters. I do agree with alot of their basic principles on ethics and fair chase. But in many ways they have fought hard against the advances in technology that we see these days with bowhunting gear. What gear we use is personal. If it really bothers them then why not have different categories for animals shot with trad bows than those shot with compounds. Have higher minimums for compounds. And who really is negatively affected by someone using a crossbow during "bow season"? Last I listened a crossbow doesn't go bang!!

Originally the B&C club set up scoring and minumum scores for a way to help keep track of a species health in a given area. If animals were occasionally taken that met the minimum. That species health could be considered in good condition in that area. So yes the B&C was more about promoting those "special" animals.

When P&Y started they drastically lowered those minimums. Many of which were much lower than they are today. This had little to do with herd health and much more to do with self promotion. Look at what I accomplished with a much less effective weapon. So in my eyes P&Y is much more about the hunter and less about the animal.

Yes, I'm sure the liberal bow seasons in most states are in place. Because of the actions of the P&Y club. And I'm thankful for that. But IMHO once their scoring and awards system was set in place. Is where all of this "but how much does it score" or "it's too young to kill" attitude of what's now more important these days started.



Yes founded on traditional values and ethics bc at the time they were founded that's all there was..... The first Compound wasn't introduced until 5 years later. They have changed positions with technology on many things so I dont see how they have "fought hard "against. Theres certain issues yea they aren't going to alter their core values or ethical approach but it's not like they cram it down people's throat???? Yea I bet back in 1961once they started their "scoring system" everyone was saying hey look at what my buck scored for ego. Nah I think the times have changed and people have changed and turned it into that with all the media and bs out there nowadays. An organization has no control over how people abuse or act with their scoring system or what the intent was or is. If someone has an ego trip and wants to say hey I outdid you or I'm better or mine bigger you actually think they need a scoring system to do that?? All I was saying was dont blame an organization for how people act. And dont say that's all they are when they are so much more.


To be fair I haven't been around any P&Y members for the last decade or so. I came close to joining myself. But back when I was they were constantly against anything compound related. And alot of them hated gun hunting/hunters. And are a big reason why so many splits have occurred around weapon types being used. And yes some of them were very involved with the deer hunting media available at that time. Just saying they're not as rosy as they appeared!
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Re: Why Anti Crossbow?

Unread postby Grizzlyadam » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:59 am

SplitG2 wrote:
Grizzlyadam wrote:
I'm curious why you think that a compound is much easier than crossbow? Easier in what way?


I can’t speak for new crossbows, they’ve changed quite a bit from my days of toting around my Horton Supermag but they were just very cumbersome and heavy to pack thru the woods, even with a gun sling and it hanging on your back. Constantly banging and clanging against brush. Mobile hunting with them was tougher for me, especially when going in deep. As for being in the tree with a crossbow, to me it was harder to get it off the hook and get into position for a shot versus a compound. And I feel far more concealed in a tree getting into position with a compound than I ever did with a crossbow.

Again, I’m sure there’s people out there that think I’m crazy but everyone’s wired differently. There’s a million things out there that might be hard for me and easy for others and vice versa.


Interesting stuff, thanks for that. I've never hunted with a crossbow so I personally can't say how hard or easy it is in that aspect. I have however shot a crossbow once. I took one shot at an aspirin sized dot at 30 yards and drilled it perfect the one and only time I shot a crossbow. I thought that the actual shooting of one was easy, no different than a gun in my mind. The one nuance that differs shooting a crossbow vs a gun in a real life hunting situation is that the bolt is still traveling at archery speeds and the noise of the crossbow going off is going to reach the animals ears before the bolt finds it's mark. To me that is the most important difference from a gun and similarity to other archery tackle that I find seems to be overlooked by many people on both sides of the argument.


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