Religion / hunting...

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
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ryanm
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby ryanm » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:17 am

Indianahunter wrote: Let me suffice it to say that I in no way shape or form think that hunting is a sin, or that God can't or shouldn't be worshipped where ever you are. I was just saying even for myself that is easy to get wrapped up in the things that we enjoy and end up worshipping that thing rather then the Creator of all things.


I agree that every fall I am reminded how much design is in creation... to me the word religion implies a system of doing enough right things to outweigh my wrong things - which the bible tells me is not how it works.

The bible declares a future day when every knee bows acknowledging who this creator is... I believe by birth every man is automatically given two things, eternal life and a choice in this life where to spend it. Jesus says knocking on his door is an opportunity I don't want to miss out on. Choose wisely and enjoy the hunt.


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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby AC Rider » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:08 am

Zap wrote:
I talk with God alot.

When times are tough, on the day's when things do not go the way I want and I feel like I have tied a knot on the end of a rope and am hanging on.........

Those are the days that I say aloud many times "thank You for what you have given me today".

Least I forget the gift of life that I recieved that morning when I awoke.

God bless you all.

marty

Very good Marty and thanks!
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Indianahunter
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby Indianahunter » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:12 pm

ryanm wrote:
Indianahunter wrote: Let me suffice it to say that I in no way shape or form think that hunting is a sin, or that God can't or shouldn't be worshipped where ever you are. I was just saying even for myself that is easy to get wrapped up in the things that we enjoy and end up worshipping that thing rather then the Creator of all things.


I agree that every fall I am reminded how much design is in creation... to me the word religion implies a system of doing enough right things to outweigh my wrong things - which the bible tells me is not how it works.

The bible declares a future day when every knee bows acknowledging who this creator is... I believe by birth every man is automatically given two things, eternal life and a choice in this life where to spend it. Jesus says knocking on his door is an opportunity I don't want to miss out on. Choose wisely and enjoy the hunt.


I am going to say this and I will say no more, because genuinely with all my heart I am not out to offend anyone.
Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore then standing in a garage makes you a car. I also want to point out as a matter of principal that I believe in Grace and not law because of the liberty we have in Christ and am not a legalist. However that doesn't mean that we have no responsibility or that we can choose how we are to worship and live.
Let's say that you made an abstract sculpture to represent a strong conviction you have about some issue. You take it to the local art museum to show and to explain the concept behind it. Lets say you are passionately explaining how it represents oppression in society (or some artsy thing like that) and someone pipes up and says "No I think it represents strength amongst minorities". Now of course the guy is entitled to his opinion because he is going to have one anyway. But who is Right? The CREATOR of the sculpture who designed it carefully for a purpose or the bystander? Of course it is the Creator. God says that we would absolutely know that he existed by observing the creation. However knowing that God exists is simply knowing a fact like Lincoln was the 16th President. You see the reality is it doesn't matter if you know Jesus, it matters if Jesus knows you. If I go to the whitehouse and say I know Obama no one is going to let me in, but if Obama comes out and says I know Bob, then I am in.
One of the most terrifying verses in all of Scripture is when Jesus is talking about people that he called "workers of iniquity" (the word iniquity literally means lawlessness)He said to those that were claiming to know Him at the judgement, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you". I am asking and praying that you consider the cost of not knowing with certainty that the convictions you hold about What you THINK God wants from you are in line with what He really wants. Not trying to preach, just asking as a friend to test what you believe in the light of scripture. This is not about increasing church attendance or me standing on a soap box, this a friend making a request of other friends, and a sinner making a request of other sinners. Don't look for something to believe in, look for truth. Take care and God bless.
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby Bigdaddy-yoyo » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:56 pm

Well said brother, Indiana Hunter. From one sinner to another, I am born again. Saved by Gods grace and mercy thru His Son Jesus Christ.The word of God makes it clear in John 3:3. I was raised in a religous system for 18 years of my life, had a reverent fear of the Lord but no relationship. At 35 years old I said God your right and I'm wrong, got on my knees and confessed I'm a sinner in need of His free gift. He paid the price for my wrongdoings[sin]. Something I could not do!!! All I can say is Thank you Jesus!! I love being in the woods, worshipping the Creator,saved by His grace and mercy!!! Love all you guys and gals!!! Have a great hunting season.
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby Sam Ubl » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:49 am

Nothing wrong with infusing religion and hunting into one. I feel much like the hunter in this painting - I give thanks and praise in this very way! ...and in others.
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby dirt nap giver » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:47 pm

I also want to point out as a matter of principal that I believe in Grace and not law because of the liberty we have in Christ and am not a legalist.
One of the most terrifying verses in all of Scripture is when Jesus is talking about people that he called "workers of iniquity" (the word iniquity literally means lawlessness)He said to those that were claiming to know Him at the judgement, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you".
Please explain this further. They seem to contradict each other. I have read this many times and have the similar view as you. To be saved by grace and not by OT law, then why would He say to depart you workers of lawlessness. My wheels are turning.
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby BigRed » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:18 pm

I think when Jesus said that he pointed it at hypocrites, those who claim Christ but do not reflect it in their actions. If you look at the verses prior to this, which is found in Matthew 7:21-22 "Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father in heaven, In that day many will say Lord did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and perform many miracles." Thats a touchy subject but i think its pretty clear. If a person is truly living like Christ to the best of their ability that is all a person can do, and that is where faith comes in also. You have to trust in Gods grace and that is all you can do. The OT law is no longer relevant, and hasnt been since Jesus died on the cross. Hope that helps a little.
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby GRUD » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:46 am

Good to know this thread is still going. Iron sharpens Iron.

Some of the above scriptures can seem confusing, being saved or going to heaven and the way we live our lives are different things. One of the first things Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount was DONT FORGET THE LAW! Not one jot or tittle will pass away until all is fullfilled. The demands of grace are much harder than law because our motives are exposed. Its only when God gets at our hearts that we have any hope of doing right. More confused?

Anyway, new perspective. If Adam didnt fall, would Jesus have still come? God had plans in his heart before time began, before man fell, what were they?
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Indianahunter
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby Indianahunter » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:24 am

dirt nap giver wrote:I also want to point out as a matter of principal that I believe in Grace and not law because of the liberty we have in Christ and am not a legalist.
One of the most terrifying verses in all of Scripture is when Jesus is talking about people that he called "workers of iniquity" (the word iniquity literally means lawlessness)He said to those that were claiming to know Him at the judgement, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you".
Please explain this further. They seem to contradict each other. I have read this many times and have the similar view as you. To be saved by grace and not by OT law, then why would He say to depart you workers of lawlessness. My wheels are turning.


I will do my best to answer this as simply as I can without going on for 100 pages :D HOWEVER This is very, very important and will take some time and I would be happy to e-mail you privately or give you my phone number and you can call me.My personal e-mail for anyone who has any questions about this is bweston@etczone.com This is a complicated piece of scripture without the proper understanding of the balance between law and grace,and it would be easy to write a book on it. Let me say this first and foremost. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO MERIT GODS FAVOR. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags in His sight. No amount of prayer, or tithing, or church attending,or Bible reading or good works earns you anything before a Holy and righteous God. It is Christ's sacrifice for your sins alone that makes it even possible that anyone regardless of who they are may be saved.
Before you can understand Grace you have to understand the purpose of the law. In the new testament God tells us the purpose of the law. The Bible says "The law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ". Paul said, "I had not known sin, but by the law". The law doesn't save anyone and it was never designed to. The law condemns you, the law shows you that you are a sinner. Here is a simple example of how the law works. Hang in there and understand I am as guilty and more so then anyone who reads this, there is a point.
1.Have you ever told a lie, white lie or even a half truth? If so what do you call someone who tells lies??? A liar!
2. Have you ever stolen anything regardless of it's value? Even your employers time? If you have ever done that, then you are a thief!
3. Have you ever looked upon another with lust man or woman? JESUS SAID "Whoever look upon a woman to lust after her HAS COMMITTED ADULTRY! What guy could ever deny this?
4. You might say well I have never killed anyone or anything. Jesus said if you ever hated anyone you are a murderer.

These are just 4 of the ten commandments. The Bible says if you have offended in any one of them you are guilty of the whole law. But God is a loving God right? He knows that we don't always mean harm by these things and I am sure he will over look some of this right? WRONG.
If a guy was on trial for a crime and the judge said well you seem like a nice guy and I really don't think you meant it and let him walk, you would be outraged. You would say this judge is corrupt and unjust, this man deserves to pay for his crimes.
Well God is neither corrupt nor unjust, and is so perfect that he can't even look upon sin. God declares in His word that "He will by no means clear the guilty? How can this be?
God sent Him (Jesus Christ his only begotten son) who knew NO sin to become sin for us, that He (God the Father) might be JUST and the Justifier of those who have faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus lived a perfect,sinless life obeying every precept of the law.
God in His great mercy and love for us literally placed all of our sins on His innocent son and punished Him to the point of death shedding his blood and as the Bible says suffering more than any man, and then in turn Literally placed Christs righteousness on all those that repent and put their faith in Christ alone for their salvation. That is Amazing grace my friends.
Ok just a little bit more then the point and that passage (by the grace of God) should be become clearer.
Do you remember what God wrote the ten commandments on? Two tablets of stone. Get this! God declared in the old testament that he would write His law on our hearts, that he would remove our hearts of STONE and give us a heart of flesh and he would cause us to walk in His statutes.WOW! Remember the phrase from Jesus " YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN" This is what Jesus was referring to, this is the new birth. God the Holy spirit removes our hard, cold,stony hearts and gives us hearts of flesh that cause us to desire righteousness and to love Christ. It is a complete change of heart soul and mind by the power of God. Not an intellectual understanding of biblical facts. Now I don't desire to obey God because I want to do the right thing and go to heaven, I obey him because I love Him. My thinking has changed from I HAVE to go to Church to I WANT to go to Church. From, I HAVE to pay a tithe to I WANT to pay a tithe. As GRUD so perfectly said it is and has always been a matter of the heart. God has always desired the hearts of His people, and by His doing by the sacrifice of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit working and changing our hearts we are saved from Gods wrath and are Children of God, and our deepest desire is to be with him and to please him. The same way we do anything for anyone we love. We don't do it because we have to, we do it because we love them.

Repent means to turn from sin, not just I am sorry, we should be sorry. It means you have seen that you are guilty, it means that you are sorry, it means that you realize that outside of Christ you have no hope and that you desire with every fiber of your being to never sin again. You turn from your current way of thinking and living as if there was no God and put your faith in Christ alone for salvation. That doesn't mean to believe in Jesus as is so commonly said. It means to put your trust in Him alone for your salvation the same way you trust an elevator to take you 100 stories up and not drop you. Remember Jesus is the only righteousness that will be accepted before God. Understand this people don't go to simply because they don't "believe in Jesus" people go to for the just punishment of their sin as God promised. But those who have faith in Christ have HIS righteousness. When God saves you by putting your faith in Christ He forgets your sin and remembers it no more and when he looks at you, he literally sees Christs righteousness, thus making us sons and daughters and heirs of His kingdom. Only because of Christ and nothing of yourself, so their will be no boasting by anyone in His presence.
FINALLY! The people who were crying out Lord, Lord. They speak of doing good works and miraculous things in Jesus name. These people really believe they are Christians. Here is the problem. They try to go in their own way,Do their own thing, Live a Christian life on their own terms the way they think it is and try to justify themselves before a Holy God by their own works. Boasting in their accomplishments. Folks it is through the shed blood of Christ alone that anyone will stand before God. He is Just for punishing sin and not clearing the guilty when he placed your sin on Christ, and he is the justifier of sinners like you and I by giving us Christ perfect righteousness. That is why I spoke up on this thread, because everyone seems to have their own beliefs, or own way, and justifying to themselves what is appropriate forms of worship and living. With the deepest love, sincerity, and concern for everyone on here I have said these things. Please test yourselves in the light of scripture, please make sure you are right about what you think it means to be a Christian. I am available to anyone, anytime. Shoot me an e-mail with your number and I will call you and we can talk. Sorry so long, but it was necessary.
God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby dirt nap giver » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:54 pm

I don't know if I am just not understanding, or what. So here is my specific question. If Christ comes and says "depart from me, you workers of iniquity(workers of lawlessness)". To me that implies that the ones who haven't kept the law. Yet we are to not believe the law and believe in grace. I am a believer in grace and I feel that if you have to go to church to "find God" then something is wrong. I go to church now because I want to....and I need to. I NEED to because I have helped myself to every empty thing this world has to offer and was left with my head on my pillow in the morning just as empty as I was before I indulged. I need bruised toes. The acts I do are from the heart because I want to be obedient. With the realization that it is not of my works, but rather in whom I have CHOSEN to put my faith in. So I get the "works" part of this.
I feel like a newborn with this, and that's okay, so please give me a bottle with out formula. As far as email, I feel publicly is best for the advancement of His kingdom..... Humbly listening......
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby virginiashadow » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:09 am

I married a Jewish woman whom I love to death. I remember her coming to me in college and was upset. She had a conversation with a religous leader/student on campus who said that Hitler was more likely to go to heaven than my wife because he believed in Christ. That I do not understand......and to be honest, if that is the way people feel then I do not want any part of that kind of mindset. Just speaking the truth here guys and I appreciate your points of views and experiences.
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby Indianahunter » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:30 am

I will get back you buddy. I started replying and was writing another book and straying a bit, so I deleted it. I want to prayerfully consider how to answer your point directly in the least confusing way as possible as I am not as articulate as I would like :D Give me a just a little while longer.
God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby Indianahunter » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:42 am

virginiashadow wrote:I married a Jewish woman whom I love to death. I remember her coming to me in college and was upset. She had a conversation with a religous leader/student on campus who said that Hitler was more likely to go to heaven than my wife because he believed in Christ. That I do not understand......and to be honest, if that is the way people feel then I do not want any part of that kind of mindset. Just speaking the truth here guys and I appreciate your points of views and experiences.


I am sorry for yours and your wifes experience with the religious leader on campus. That is a horrible thing to say and I can tell you that the comment is not the Gospel or anything like it.
There is a big difference between being offended by the Gospel and being offended by the person supposedly giving the Gospel. I am not sure what else this guy said to her, but those comments in particular are uncalled for and especially cruel considering the History.
God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby Indianahunter » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:35 pm

dirt nap giver wrote:I don't know if I am just not understanding, or what. So here is my specific question. If Christ comes and says "depart from me, you workers of iniquity(workers of lawlessness)". To me that implies that the ones who haven't kept the law. Yet we are to not believe the law and believe in grace. I am a believer in grace and I feel that if you have to go to church to "find God" then something is wrong. I go to church now because I want to....and I need to. I NEED to because I have helped myself to every empty thing this world has to offer and was left with my head on my pillow in the morning just as empty as I was before I indulged. I need bruised toes. The acts I do are from the heart because I want to be obedient. With the realization that it is not of my works, but rather in whom I have CHOSEN to put my faith in. So I get the "works" part of this.
I feel like a newborn with this, and that's okay, so please give me a bottle with out formula. As far as email, I feel publicly is best for the advancement of His kingdom..... Humbly listening......


It is sad, but it is true. There are goats amongst the sheep, and tares amongst the wheat. There are many people that profess the name of Christ and are actually false converts. Now it is not my job to try and figure out who these people are in the pews next to me for it is Christ who will separate.

This is such a sensitive area that needs delicate handling, for there are many churches that teach doctrines in polar extremes. You have those who are all of grace without personal accountability. Then of course you have the legalists.

Now in the "All Grace" churches if you even mention things about living a life that honors God by obedience then they start yelling Legalism. I have even heard people say that faith is a work, so it is not necessary :shock:

In the Legalist church if you are not following everything "at least outwardly" to the T, and mention anything about being under the grace and liberty of Christ then they start saying things like you are not a Christian at all.

However the reality is much different than either of these extremes. Make sure you read the whole thing here and understand what I am saying in this next part.

God as the creator of all things and according to His word has laws. There is no man, woman or child at an age of accountability that is not commanded to obey God in all things without exception. Jesus said not one jot or tittle of the law will pass away until all things be fulfilled (this has a two fold purpose). Jesus also gave an amazing commandment in His ministry on earth "Be perfect as your Father in heaven is Perfect". Whoa! Now the law/grace thing seems even more clouded..What does this mean? I thought "no one was good, not even one" and "All of our righteousness was as filthy rags in His sight"?

Jesus death on the cross completely eliminated the sacrificial law. That is fulfilled and complete.
However there is still the moral accounts of the law that we as mankind are subject to; even as Christians. KEEP GOING!

Born again believers are enabled free from the burden of sin to do those things which are pleasing in the sight of God by the power of the Spirit working in us.
But you say you are terrified that maybe your not a Christian because you know for a fact that you sin every day in some way even against your own will. You want to do the will of God with all your heart, but you just keep failing constantly!

You are a most fortunate individual even though you are broken over your sin, because dear brother, God has given you all of Christs righteousness even the fulfillment of the moral law, the fulfillment of the law in it's entirety as if it were your righteousness. With this amazing grace, looking always towards Christ for your righteousness you are able when you fail to approach God openly confessing to Him your sin, and seeking prayerfully to once again stand and sin no more without fear of condemnation.

Now answer this question. The men who stood before Jesus when He told them to depart as workers of iniquity, Were they pleading to enter heaven on behalf of Christs fulfillment of the law or their own? Those who live under the law or even their own religious beliefs as they see them are still accountable to God's law and will be judged by that law. Standing on their own merit proclaiming before the one who alone fulfilled the law is sin and an insult to the sacrifice of Christ. We are commanded to repent and trust in Christ alone for our salvation. Without that you are performing works according to your own will as if God never gave you this law, and as for the rest of the law they were boasting in, we know how we would all fare in that. That is a what was being described as workers of iniquity.

You can't go to church on Sunday and live like the devil the rest of the week and think that everything is ok. This should be a concern if this is your lifestyle. Jesus said to keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome. Why aren't they a burden? Because you love Him now and you desire to do them. It is never a burden to do something for someone you love. However Jesus is not a get out of card either. You should be afraid of and you should turn to Christ, but in light of what He did to keep you from , and the fact that you need a righteousness that is not your own to stand at the judgment. Some say all you need is Jesus and I am here to tell you He is all you have!

"Some people go to church and think about deer hunting, while others go deer hunting and think about God".
I am sorry to break it you my friends, but even if being in the creation does conjure up feelings of awe and gratitude that is not worship that God will accept. God will equally despise going to church and thinking about deer hunting, or the football game coming on after the service.

The greatest commandment is this. "To Love the Lord your God with ALL of your heart, mind, soul and strength". There is no one who does this, and you'll never fool God in to believing you are only hunting Sunday morning so you can worship Him. If you are like I was, you try desperately to convince yourself this is true, but that doesn't make it true. I had all the excuses, The church is full of hypocrites and they are no better then I am...I work hard for my money why should I give it to them, how do I know what they are doing with it? I work hard all week and I just want to have this one day to myself to relax and enjoy this one thing! (As if I deserved it)

You don't have to go to church to be saved. However if Jesus is nothing more then an accessory you add to your life in passing thoughts then you really need to examine yourself.

I am not better then any of you in anyway. I feel like Paul, when he said, "I am chief amongst sinners". The only difference between myself and some of you is that Christ has become my righteousness to stand before God. By His law still serving it's purpose as it was always designed to do, I see that I am a sinner deserving of . I need Him, I love Him, He is my king and my God, and I will serve Him in all of my strength because of what He has done for me and for who He is. This is not proud boasting. This had nothing to do with me. God saved me, I didn't save me. Looking at myself all I can feel is shame, but now I look to Christ my righteousness and am filled with such overwhelming gratitude for a debt I can never repay even with my own life. I am humbled to the dust that God would do this for me and He will do this for you if you will look first at yourself in light of His law that you might look towards Christ for salvation.
The reason not one jot or tittle will fade away is two fold. 1. It will be the law that condemns all mankind apart from Christ.
2. The law will show you that you need Christ. Until Christ returns to claim His bride the law will remain effectual to this end.
God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:8
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Re: Religion / hunting...

Unread postby dirt nap giver » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:34 pm

So I feel that I have a full understanding of this, let me attempt to repeat. The was an old testimate law that died with Jesus on the cross. Then grace came into affect. So now we have access to grace, but to claim that we as individuals are keeping His laws alone is not enough. We must profess with our lips and our actions that Christ is Lord of our lives and hearts. So the confession and the keeping of the Moral code God writes and continues to write on our hearts is what it truly means to be a christian and follower of The true God.
Acceptance of Christ + Willfully keeping His laws/allowing Christ to use you in any way = Christianity.
With that said It's not about going to church and faking it, walking around thumping people over the head with the bible or even such comments that were made to Viginiashadows bride it's a personal relationship with Christ.
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