Scouting this spot this weekend.....

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dan
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby dan » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:14 am

I have never noticed staging areas that seemed to be deliberately chosen based on thermal wind currents. I agree they bed based on thermals and currents, and to some degree hang or stage in the wind tunnel thermal area. But most of the deer I observed in bedding areas would head directly where they where going for food or water except during rut when the would indeed use the thermals to locate does.
Your maps showing bedding and thermals look great in theory, but I can't relate it to any of my personal observations.

Most of the staging I see in Hill country is closer to the bed. I see them get up and move to the edge of there safe zone, ( an area where they think nothing could of penetrated while they were bedded without alerting him)
The are is usually in the direction they were going to head anyway. They do sit in the thermal tunnel a lot, but then at dark I don't see them go to the convergence... They just head to food or water.


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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby virginiashadow » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:02 am

I AM going to kill a buck in a staging area this year. And I AM going to do it with my recurve. And I AM going to do it before the rut kicks off. Oh boy, what did I just say? GULP.
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:20 am

dan wrote:I have never noticed staging areas that seemed to be deliberately chosen based on thermal wind currents. I agree they bed based on thermals and currents, and to some degree hang or stage in the wind tunnel thermal area. But most of the deer I observed in bedding areas would head directly where they where going for food or water except during rut when the would indeed use the thermals to locate does.
Your maps showing bedding and thermals look great in theory, but I can't relate it to any of my personal observations.

Most of the staging I see in Hill country is closer to the bed. I see them get up and move to the edge of there safe zone, ( an area where they think nothing could of penetrated while they were bedded without alerting him)
The are is usually in the direction they were going to head anyway. They do sit in the thermal tunnel a lot, but then at dark I don't see them go to the convergence... They just head to food or water.


I don't have a lot of experience hunting in hill country so maybe this is specific to the area I have hunted. There is also food (primarily acorns) and often water in these staging area's.

virginiashadow wrote:I AM going to kill a buck in a staging area this year. And I AM going to do it with my recurve. And I AM going to do it before the rut kicks off. Oh boy, what did I just say? GULP.

:lol:
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dan
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby dan » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:33 am

I don't have a lot of experience hunting in hill country so maybe this is specific to the area I have hunted. There is also food (primarily acorns) and often water in these staging area's.

Well they certainly like to head to water and food... My hill country usually has a lot of farm crops to factor in on the tops and bottoms. So Some of these bigger woods maps are a little different than what I am used to for hilly terrain.
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby Arrowbender » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:49 am

I like the way ya'all think, but am confused. 1st off I assume we're talking out of rut bucks. Next; in the 1st topo's there doesn't seem to be Ag. in the equation so my experiences, like Dan's differ. This raises the question what are they staging for? To most; staging means the safe area before entering an open area. To the likes of Dan and the Beasts the staging area is that safe area surrounding the bed itself.
In my limited experience; out of rut mature bucks don't leave the "safety area" until dark or unless provoked (called to) very near dark; and then it seems they move toward the feeding area. This can be up or down, but my observations are, it is way easier to call them uphill, or at least it is easier to set up uphill from them (evenings).
This whole thermal thing is also easier to set up in by the seat of your pants than it is to plan on paper. I seldom find that the "wind" direction is cut and dry in hill country. Only on the quietest of days are the thermals so reliable. Even in well protected valleys the prevailing wind seems to contort these drafts a little differently every set.
What I found to be dendable is what the Downdrafts of late evening (when the prevailing wind lays down) will do and set up accordingly.
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby dan » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:15 am

I would have to agree with most of that Arrow... A big factor in me wanting to set up in the thermal tunnel area is that it seems to be a lot easier to predict wind and thermals in those areas. In valleys the scent almost always seems to travel up to the bedded buck regardless to your set up.
But even in the thermal tunnal there can still be changes in the winds or as the thermal wind takes over a short period when the wind is in the process of changing that it might just blow towards the bed... Finding where mature bucks bed in hilly terrain really aint very hard. The wind thermal combo is the issue that makes it tough.
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby virginiashadow » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:19 am

Arrowbender, there are hardly and agricultural crops on the place I hunt, and if there are, everyone knows about them and hunt them hard.

Well today I had to deal with something I have grown used to on the place I hunt, the area I wanted to scout was closed. I was bummed. So I went into another area and scouted for 3 hours through thick cover and sweated like crazy. After all the walking in the heat all I found was 5-6 doe beds on a point. I had seen the does moving from this particular area before but had never found any beds, well today I found them and at least I added a piece to the puzzle on that one particular area.

I will try to get out there to scout the area I posted in my first post here in the next couple of weeks. It is difficult for me to scout at this time of the year because all they have open for scouting is Sundays, and I work two Sundays a month.
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby Autumn Ninja » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:07 pm

The only way to understand what I'm saying is to know and understand how bucks move from point "A" to point "B" in hill country. This is not a theroy...This is the actual trail system.

This buck was bedding at the red dot. Depending on which zone (outlined in black) he would go to that day, this is how he would travel. The blue hubs where the key to the entire puzzle. I found the bed, found the key to his travel (the hubs) and killed him. I hunted him in the high lighted areas and killed him near the south hub my forth set on Dec. 18th.

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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby futuredoc » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:41 pm

cool map. A couple of questions. How would an agricultural area affect the movements of that buck if it was located directly to the north? IN other words, would you expect him to drop off of the front of that point or walk south and loop around? Also, did you find that this buck bedded on that point in a variety of wind conditions (i.e. south, west, east and combos of the prior?) I wouldn't think he would bed there with a North wind in theory at least. I'm troubled with making generalizations of this kind however because I still know we are talking about an animal that "shouldn't" be able to think like we can.

thanks,

fd
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby dan » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:21 am

Wether they think or not, that buck likely won't be there on a north wind ;)
I think they can reason enough to understand how to use wind currents.

Ninja, I agree with your last map regarding the bedding staging area with the exception of there are generally a few more trails that break off before getting to the hubs.
Your Hubs on this map are pretty precise as to where I would put water holes on private ground. I often find I need to get a little closer if water is not a factor to get daylight shooting if the bucks are pressured.
But I do agree with what your pointing out on this map.
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby futuredoc » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:44 am

sorry Dan I might not have been clear on my question. All of the feeding locations on the map are to the south/west/east. If the buck was bedded on this point on a south, SW, SE wind, then what would you expect him to do if his destination was to the northeast or north? Would he simply drop off the front of the point with the wind at his back or back track walking at the same elevation? Atleast, what would be your guess?

thanks

Kendall
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby futuredoc » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:45 am

nevermind I now see the trail coming off of the northeast side of the point down into the bottom. I guess your are out of luck if he goes that way.
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby dan » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:09 am

Your never just "out of luck".
You can do a couple things for dropping bucks.
#1 wait till the food pattern switches and he starts heading the other direction

#2 analyze his exact path for a weakness in wind pattern

#3 wait for the thermal direction to change from up hill to down hill (usually the last 45 minutes of light give or take a little ) then quickly get under nieth him and set up..

#4 Wait for the right weather pattern, moon pattern, or rut and set up in the morning right over the top of the bed.
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby Autumn Ninja » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:22 am

futuredoc wrote:cool map. A couple of questions. How would an agricultural area affect the movements of that buck if it was located directly to the north? IN other words, would you expect him to drop off of the front of that point or walk south and loop around? Also, did you find that this buck bedded on that point in a variety of wind conditions (i.e. south, west, east and combos of the prior?) I wouldn't think he would bed there with a North wind in theory at least. I'm troubled with making generalizations of this kind however because I still know we are talking about an animal that "shouldn't" be able to think like we can.

thanks,

fd

I would expect him to drop of the point if the north ridge was where wanted to go.

I have no doubt that this buck had several other bedding areas for different winds but this is the only one I needed to find...I only hunted SW to NE winds, thats when I expected him to be there. I killed him on a SE wind.
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Re: Scouting this spot this weekend.....

Unread postby Autumn Ninja » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:21 pm

futuredoc wrote:never mind I now see the trail coming off of the northeast side of the point down into the bottom. I guess your are out of luck if he goes that way.

The buck I killed last year was very tough...he would always drop down off the points into the bottom when he come off his bed's...I almost gave up on him, then I found a flaw in what he was doing.

He was bedding around this big hub at the red marks. The day I shot him he was bedded at the north spot with a north east wind, I set up at the blue mark and shot him right before dark.

As Dan said, your never out of luck....A lot of patience and planing will put you in bow range.

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