Activated carbon fraud

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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby ontario farmer » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:43 pm

Bedbug wrote:
ontario farmer wrote:Quote

f it will HELP is even less my point than it is the reason Scent Lock had to appear in court.. Big fan of science.
Fully activated carbon Can help to reduce scent.
If scent Lock had been tried in court for claiming to tell the customer there products "helped". I do not believe that would have been fraud.

A reasonable comment. I do think they won the case because of the rutgers study. Thanks


Help reduce scent and eliminate scent are two very different things Ontario.

I would not disagree with your statement at all. How much is the question. Done well a lot. I cannot prove it but likely less than you leave on your entrance trail that deer cross.


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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby ontario farmer » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:44 pm

Lopedog699 wrote:I think we are really beating a dead horse once again with the whole scent lok saga


You are probably right... Just thought I would provide another point of view since we know the prevailing viewpoint on this site and it was brought up again. I am glad that Dan allows for the other point of view . Thanks for the freedom Dan.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby dan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:40 pm

Thanks for not censoring my opinion. God Bless the Land of freedom of expression.

I have never ever censored anyones opinion on anything on this forum. Ever... those whom have had there comments removed, or have themselves been removed have had these actions taken against them because they break rules, like using fowl language, name calling, etc. And every one of them received ample warning 1st. If you act respectable, as you have, there is no worry of being treated unfairly.

I actually am intrigued by topics like scent control, and when it gets into studys, tests, observations and such... When it becomes "I think" or "I feel" I don't care for it much... I am about looking at facts or at least observations leading to facts. If scent control works, it would be a huge asset to someone like me, cause my observations tell me that deer are much more bothered by scent near bedding areas. Even if you only hunt there once or twice a year, spooking deer in these type areas makes them much harder to kill.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby Rob loper » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:10 pm

ontario farmer wrote:
Lopedog699 wrote:I think we are really beating a dead horse once again with the whole scent lok saga


You are probably right... Just thought I would provide another point of view since we know the prevailing viewpoint on this site and it was brought up again. I am glad that Dan allows for the other point of view . Thanks for the freedom Dan.



I meant no offense brotha. I just was down this road before lol
Im semi new and was in a thread not long ago about a certain podcast debate between dan and john eberhart and it kinda back fired on me. I believe It was a touchy subject being so new i diddnt know this
Sorry if i offended you it was really not my intent.
I love hearing everyones opinions its why we are here ideas from everyone to make us better. Learn from one another
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headgear
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby headgear » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:33 am

ontario farmer wrote:You are probably right... Just thought I would provide another point of view since we know the prevailing viewpoint on this site and it was brought up again. I am glad that Dan allows for the other point of view . Thanks for the freedom Dan.


I actually think that outside of this website the prevailing viewpoint is that scent control works, it has been a breath of fresh air to see guys like dan say you don't need products to shoot good deer in hard to hunt areas, I don't feel like we are the norm here but the tide could be turning more than I realize.

I ask a scent control question that was maybe missed earlier. Honestly how does one control the smell of your breath in the stand? I just don't see a way carbon can do it even with a facemask on. Maybe ozonics but that is another expensive item to add to a big bill for things in my experience have not worked (use to be a scent control nut).
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby d_rek » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:10 am

I have been wearing scentlok pretty much my entire deer hunting career (going on my 7th season). I have both been visibly, obviously winded by deer and had them act carefree with reckless abandon while downwind. At this point i'm not sure what the answer is, or even how my experiences hunting might have been different not wearing it, and what my success might have been relative to wearing activated carbon.

I honestly believe it's not even the scentlok that helps all that much at this point. What (I believe) i'm really getting good at is understanding deer behavior and movement patterns. I am also putting in a proportionate (maybe even disproportionate) amount of time scouting in the off season. Understanding the wind is just another step in helping me become an overall better hunter by helping to understand how deer use the wind in their favor. Seems silly not to pay attention to it.

I understand all the scientific reasons why activated carbon should work. I have read tons of literature about activated carbon. I even use it in my home to filter reverse osmosis water so we have potable drinking water. There are still a lot of questions I have about how it maintains it's effectiveness, and if you even question it a little bit you start quickly run into things that cause you to scratch your head. For example: How is an activated carbon garment, that sits on a store shelf totally exposed to open air, not completely saturated before it even makes it into your hunting gear closet? And why would a company selling a garment that is supposed to 'reduce' odor allow it to be shipped and displayed in anything other than an airtight bag/container? Kind of contradictory marketing if you ask me. But hunters aren't supposed to ask those questions... right?
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby checkerfred » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:32 am

d_rek wrote:I have been wearing scentlok pretty much my entire deer hunting career (going on my 7th season). I have both been visibly, obviously winded by deer and had them act carefree with reckless abandon while downwind.


I have too and I don’t use any scent control products
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby dan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:16 am

headgear wrote:
ontario farmer wrote:You are probably right... Just thought I would provide another point of view since we know the prevailing viewpoint on this site and it was brought up again. I am glad that Dan allows for the other point of view . Thanks for the freedom Dan.


I actually think that outside of this website the prevailing viewpoint is that scent control works, it has been a breath of fresh air to see guys like dan say you don't need products to shoot good deer in hard to hunt areas, I don't feel like we are the norm here but the tide could be turning more than I realize.

I ask a scent control question that was maybe missed earlier. Honestly how does one control the smell of your breath in the stand? I just don't see a way carbon can do it even with a facemask on. Maybe ozonics but that is another expensive item to add to a big bill for things in my experience have not worked (use to be a scent control nut).

Sorry, I kind of ignored your question. Personally, I don't think you have to worry about your breath. Yes, they make things to breath thru to help minimize breath scent, but I don't think its your breath you need to worry about. I do think deer can smell your breath, but I don't think that's a trigger for reaction.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby dan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:23 am

headgear wrote:
ontario farmer wrote:You are probably right... Just thought I would provide another point of view since we know the prevailing viewpoint on this site and it was brought up again. I am glad that Dan allows for the other point of view . Thanks for the freedom Dan.


I actually think that outside of this website the prevailing viewpoint is that scent control works, it has been a breath of fresh air to see guys like dan say you don't need products to shoot good deer in hard to hunt areas, I don't feel like we are the norm here but the tide could be turning more than I realize.

I ask a scent control question that was maybe missed earlier. Honestly how does one control the smell of your breath in the stand? I just don't see a way carbon can do it even with a facemask on. Maybe ozonics but that is another expensive item to add to a big bill for things in my experience have not worked (use to be a scent control nut).

I think this website has more people that believe in at least some sort of scent control helping you, than those whom take the side that it can't help. Most other websites IMHO ridicule anyone who suggests its a waste of time. We get the reputation that we are closed minded cause we don't allow them to come here and ridicule. We have disciplined people on both side of the fence.

I appreciate peoples opinions, but at the end of the day its still just "opinion". I prefer hearing about tests, studies, and personal observations, especially if they are done in a journal format where the observations are jotted down daily so you remember every encounter. Then it can be used for comparison.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby ghoasthunter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:28 am

my findings on scent control I spent my season hunting using ozone dry washing my clothes I have had many encounters this year with deer of all ages. I play the wind every day as good as I can but some times they just get behind you what I have found is yearlings are stupid for most part and just are not aware of you regardless so I can not use them as an example. when mature does get behind you they start scent checking and licking their nose telling me they can smell me but they are not getting as much they will stand their for a good while on edge and either do the sneak and continue on or turn around and sneak off but they seam to delay more than when I did no scent control. they are defiantly smelling me. but almost every time they don't blow which is a win for me. in the beginning of season they were more prone to keep on their travel but towards end of season they would have a change of plans. for bucks I can not use 1.5 year olds cuz I never seem to get winded by them and they don't care the least bucks 2.5 years old to 3.5 hang up but give me enough time to make a shot. one thing I did notice is they do get a lot closer before they pic me up say 40 to 50 yards compared to 80 to 100. as for very mature bucks 4.5 and up they don't stick around to take a chance and I don't see enough to really have answer. a lot of things can make a difference warm humid air in early season seems to hold your scent better than dry cold air in winter. but the deer are less on edge vs later on. and some deer have better noses than others some deer are naturally more on edge. but throwing your gear in a tub is easy and you can buy a ozone machine on E BAY for 60 bucks. so I'm going to keep doing it and if I can fool just a couple deer a year and keep them from blowing weather it actually the ozone or not ill keep doing it. THE BIGGEST THING WE NEED FOR SUCESS AS HUNTERS IS TO BE COMFIDENT IN OUR SELVES AND IF SCENT CONTROL DOES THAT FOR YOU KEEP DOING IT!
THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOL A HUNTER HAS IS BETWEEN HIS SHOULDERS
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby headgear » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:50 am

dan wrote:
I think this website has more people that believe in at least some sort of scent control helping you, than those whom take the side that it can't help. Most other websites IMHO ridicule anyone who suggests its a waste of time. We get the reputation that we are closed minded cause we don't allow them to come here and ridicule. We have disciplined people on both side of the fence.



I think you might be very right, we are a minority even on this site. The funny thing is most of us ex scent control guys use to be hard core scent control guys so we have the unique ability to have seen it from both perspectives, help us early on but eventually it ended up being not the answer that helped us get on the deer we are after.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby Babshaft » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:53 am

headgear wrote:
dan wrote:
I think this website has more people that believe in at least some sort of scent control helping you, than those whom take the side that it can't help. Most other websites IMHO ridicule anyone who suggests its a waste of time. We get the reputation that we are closed minded cause we don't allow them to come here and ridicule. We have disciplined people on both side of the fence.



I think you might be very right, we are a minority even on this site. The funny thing is most of us ex scent control guys use to be hard core scent control guys so we have the unique ability to have seen it from both perspectives, help us early on but eventually it ended up being not the answer that helped us get on the deer we are after.


This! I truly believed in scent control, but I have a marketing background and everything seems like snake oil now. I look at everything that way. I even looked at the hunting beast DVD's that way. It's all snake oil til I try it and it works for me.

I like reading about all of the tests that have been done. I think there's faults in some of them, but nothing is ever perfect. Then I start looking at my own observations and experiences to try and compare. I'm more certain than ever that the experiences I had where deer were close to me on my down wind side and didn't spook actually had more to do with my height in the tree than my scent control regimen. Then I saw Dan using milkweed and tried it. I'm confident now my scent was blowing right over the deer. I gave up most of my scent regimen because of how much more successful I was using beast tactics.

And I'm lazy. It's easier to play the wind than to wash everything, keep it in all these containers, get dressed in the field, and wash myself before every hunt. Time to do my own study. After trying both sides I think I'm going to give 0 scent control a go next season and make my own observations. My hypothesis is that I'll have the success seeing deer that I did last season and the same opportunities.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby Rob loper » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:17 am

Babshaft wrote:
headgear wrote:
dan wrote:
I think this website has more people that believe in at least some sort of scent control helping you, than those whom take the side that it can't help. Most other websites IMHO ridicule anyone who suggests its a waste of time. We get the reputation that we are closed minded cause we don't allow them to come here and ridicule. We have disciplined people on both side of the fence.



I think you might be very right, we are a minority even on this site. The funny thing is most of us ex scent control guys use to be hard core scent control guys so we have the unique ability to have seen it from both perspectives, help us early on but eventually it ended up being not the answer that helped us get on the deer we are after.


This! I truly believed in scent control, but I have a marketing background and everything seems like snake oil now. I look at everything that way. I even looked at the hunting beast DVD's that way. It's all snake oil til I try it and it works for me.

I like reading about all of the tests that have been done. I think there's faults in some of them, but nothing is ever perfect. Then I start looking at my own observations and experiences to try and compare. I'm more certain than ever that the experiences I had where deer were close to me on my down wind side and didn't spook actually had more to do with my height in the tree than my scent control regimen. Then I saw Dan using milkweed and tried it. I'm confident now my scent was blowing right over the deer. I gave up most of my scent regimen because of how much more successful I was using beast tactics.

And I'm lazy. It's easier to play the wind than to wash everything, keep it in all these containers, get dressed in the field, and wash myself before every hunt. Time to do my own study. After trying both sides I think I'm going to give 0 scent control a go next season and make my own observations. My hypothesis is that I'll have the success seeing deer that I did last season and the same opportunities.


I agree. I have kids, their sports , which all yhree have practices every day if not a game in 3 different sports.also work Taking care of things at home. And what ever else wants to pop up. I dont have time to go home take a shower drive 2 hrs if not more to a hunting spot then if you wanna have a chance at a mature animal a 1-1/2 walk in order to sneak in on a bedding area or bed early enough to let it settle down. I myself dont have time to do a scent regimen. I do have scent lok and think it works but not perfectly not 100% i most likely will never buy scent lok again. Its way too expensive
I learned to plan and play the wind anyway
I just wanna hint. I wanna be in the woods. I love it and am nuts over it. Its a big part of my life and always will be
I just dont want a bunch of big money big marketing ploys telling me how i gotta do something
Besides beating their eyes noses and ears isnt that our goals? If we do that then we are usually successful
Right. But thats just me.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby Babshaft » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:37 am

Lopedog699 wrote:
Babshaft wrote:
headgear wrote:
dan wrote:
I think this website has more people that believe in at least some sort of scent control helping you, than those whom take the side that it can't help. Most other websites IMHO ridicule anyone who suggests its a waste of time. We get the reputation that we are closed minded cause we don't allow them to come here and ridicule. We have disciplined people on both side of the fence.



I think you might be very right, we are a minority even on this site. The funny thing is most of us ex scent control guys use to be hard core scent control guys so we have the unique ability to have seen it from both perspectives, help us early on but eventually it ended up being not the answer that helped us get on the deer we are after.


This! I truly believed in scent control, but I have a marketing background and everything seems like snake oil now. I look at everything that way. I even looked at the hunting beast DVD's that way. It's all snake oil til I try it and it works for me.

I like reading about all of the tests that have been done. I think there's faults in some of them, but nothing is ever perfect. Then I start looking at my own observations and experiences to try and compare. I'm more certain than ever that the experiences I had where deer were close to me on my down wind side and didn't spook actually had more to do with my height in the tree than my scent control regimen. Then I saw Dan using milkweed and tried it. I'm confident now my scent was blowing right over the deer. I gave up most of my scent regimen because of how much more successful I was using beast tactics.

And I'm lazy. It's easier to play the wind than to wash everything, keep it in all these containers, get dressed in the field, and wash myself before every hunt. Time to do my own study. After trying both sides I think I'm going to give 0 scent control a go next season and make my own observations. My hypothesis is that I'll have the success seeing deer that I did last season and the same opportunities.


I agree. I have kids, their sports , which all yhree have practices every day if not a game in 3 different sports.also work Taking care of things at home. And what ever else wants to pop up. I dont have time to go home take a shower drive 2 hrs if not more to a hunting spot then if you wanna have a chance at a mature animal a 1-1/2 walk in order to sneak in on a bedding area or bed early enough to let it settle down. I myself dont have time to do a scent regimen. I do have scent lok and think it works but not perfectly not 100% i most likely will never buy scent lok again. Its way too expensive
I learned to plan and play the wind anyway
I just wanna hint. I wanna be in the woods. I love it and am nuts over it. Its a big part of my life and always will be
I just dont want a bunch of big money big marketing ploys telling me how i gotta do something
Besides beating their eyes noses and ears isnt that our goals? If we do that then we are usually successful
Right. But thats just me.


Right on man, couldn't agree with you more!
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby BAS4109 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:14 pm

Holy cow. I haven't checked this site in a few days and you guys have been busy here.

I really would love to see some actual field tests done with deer, not dogs. Apples to apples type tests. This is were I get skeptical. If I was Scent Lok and my product was that awesome then this should be easy to prove...

I have said it before, I don't think scent Lok could ever eliminate scent. That was a poor choice of marketing that will haunt them forever.

I use it because it reduces my scent. I spook less deer. That might mean I am not spooking does, fawns, and young bucks. My goal is to keep those deer from alerting the big bucks to my presence before they even get close. If a deer hits my scent and spooks (blows and runs back), then the chances of a mature buck coming out have gone way down.

I am not trying to trick the mature bucks with scentlok. I play the wind for that.


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