Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

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PLB
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby PLB » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:43 pm

Ya there are wolves and bears and lots of coyotes and they kill a few deer, but the real problem is the doe slaughter and this KIll em all mentality! Plus there are way too many hunters in this state!!! The winters up in Canada are 10 times worse, they have way more wolves, and yet they kill magnificient bucks every year and have a healthy population of deer. How can this be? They don't slaughter the does and fawns like Wisconsin ;) Just my opinion.. By the way I've hunted up north for 22 years now and I have seen great years and bad years. They come and go but our crew of 9 guys get onto and kill good bucks every season, gun and bow...How?? HARD WORK! Lots of scouting!!


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Sam Ubl
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Sam Ubl » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:58 am

First, I'd like to tell Gardner Swamp that his trail shot of that wolf is AWESOME!! Should be a painting.

I understand that it is very hard to put a finger on how many wolves are living in our state (Wisconsin), but even so, show me some literature that shows each wolf kills more than 20 deer a year and I'll listen up. Double the DNR's count of around 600 and consider each kills 20 deer. That's still a lower number (24,000) than recorded car kills.

I'm not interested in stirring the pot for arguments sake, but as a family on this site I think we can carry this conversation out with reasoning.

Baiting and overharvest of does in the Northwoods, well, that's another topic, but I would think the baiting is what may actually keep some of those deer alive up there during the 9-day gun season. I'm considering the nocturnal movement baiting enables, where as a lack there of would force the deer to get up every morning and roam.. . . That said, I KNOW many deer ARE shot over bait piles, so not every deer adheres to the nocturnal momentum.

The thing is, deer numbers are lower in the Northwoods from HWY 110 and up, so I understand the concern that even if the wolves are consuming lower numbers than hunters, winter kills and car kills, it's just another thing to consider when already considering lower deer herds.

So here's the majorities main issue. In the Northwoods, one has to consider a booming wolf herd who shares the home of the lowest deer herds in the state. Point taken and understood, but I stand by my conciounce and say that it doesn't make for an excuse for hunters claiming their season was horribe and it's a direct relation to wolves.
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Sam Ubl » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:33 am

dreaming bucks wrote:http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/environment/article_0b05b346-44c6-11df-8010-001cc4c002e0.html


MY FAVORITE PART OF THIS ARTICLE...

"The cooperative effort is an intriguing turn in the relationship between hunters and the agency, which has been contentious, especially where wolves are concerned.

Some hunters have gone so far as to accuse the agency of actually planting wolves in the state. Former DNR wolf biologist Dick Thiel tells the story in his book "Keepers of the Wolves," about being in a northern tavern several years ago and sitting down next to two hunters who had no idea who he was. One of the hunters said wolves had chased all the deer out of the area and that the DNR was responsible.

", they stocked 'em," the hunter said. "I seen it myself. They have a biologist to put 'em back. Name of Dick Thiel ... He was the guy I seen driving the DNR flatbed truck down the West Moose Road. The truck had 25 crates with timber wolves in 'em, already collared and ready to go."

Thiel decided to remain anonymous and not refute the tall tale, he wrote, instead quickly finishing his beer and making a quiet exit. "
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby dreaming bucks » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:42 am

I was sent an email today regarding wolves.... Not trying to send a bad image for the wolves here, but check out what they did to a moose !
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby dreaming bucks » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:44 am

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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Sam Ubl » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:51 am

If these images were shot from a treestand as the story suggest, that's (A)Super lucky for the dude in the tree - wish it had been me!, and (B)Scary as . . . Good question - wonder how long he did stay up in that tree because I'm thinking it would have been a long night! That's a lot of meat to eat in one sitting and I'm guessing a pack of wolves wouldn't have traveled too far from the kill to digest. Wish we could hear the story told by the guy with the camera.
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Black Squirrel » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:04 am

Sam, You say that baiting actually helps deer stay alive, but I was wondering if it is just the opposite. I was thinking it would concentrate the deer making it easier for the wolves to kill deer, especially in deep snow. I have know idea if my opinion, is acurate, as I have no proof either way, I was just looking at it a different way. This is a good discussion. Fortunately for me, I don't hunt where there are wolves.... yet. Can you all tell I'm really tip-toeing around this one, I'm trying not to p!$$ anyone off.
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Gardner Swamp » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:25 am

Black Squirrel wrote:Sam, You say that baiting actually helps deer stay alive, but I was wondering if it is just the opposite. I was thinking it would concentrate the deer making it easier for the wolves to kill deer, especially in deep snow. I have know idea if my opinion, is acurate, as I have no proof either way, I was just looking at it a different way. This is a good discussion. Fortunately for me, I don't hunt where there are wolves.... yet. Can you all tell I'm really tip-toeing around this one, I'm trying not to p!$$ anyone off.


Black Squirrel....The pic of the wolf is only a few miles away from the gardner!!!
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Black Squirrel » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:16 am

Gardner Swamp wrote:
Black Squirrel wrote:Sam, You say that baiting actually helps deer stay alive, but I was wondering if it is just the opposite. I was thinking it would concentrate the deer making it easier for the wolves to kill deer, especially in deep snow. I have know idea if my opinion, is acurate, as I have no proof either way, I was just looking at it a different way. This is a good discussion. Fortunately for me, I don't hunt where there are wolves.... yet. Can you all tell I'm really tip-toeing around this one, I'm trying not to p!$$ anyone off.


Black Squirrel....The pic of the wolf is only a few miles away from the gardner!!!

:shock: I guess I do hunt where there are wolves! I have heard of sightings up there, but just figured they were passing through.
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Sam Ubl » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:22 am

Black Squirrel-

Understood, however, I was speaking in relation to human hunter vs deer. With regards to wolves, I would side with you in that surely deer will stay in close proximity to the food source - so you may be on to something with the wolves, however, with deer and their keen sense of everything, I would hope they would flee the scene in a hurry.

On another note (and I'll assume the reason this conversation is going no where is because there must be a lot of us on the same page...)

With regards to the whole topic of wolf predation on deer - It IS ridiculous to speculate wolves as the ultimate reason for lack of deer this last year.

The infamous, "Big Bad Wolf" gets the same bad rap as musky, but I bid people all the time to have a biological conversation with me about muskies when they tell me their eating all the walleye out of a lake. . . I usually get a lot of responses like, "My grandpa . . .", or "I heard. . ." For me, I don't protect musky and argue with those, who consider killing the fish because they think their the reason they didn't catch a limit of bluegill, simply because their my favorite specie to target, I do it because I don't base facts off bar-room banter and tales from the days of old (timers), nor do I proclaim opinions on "heated" matters. It comes down to science and realism. . . Wolves live in the state, and they hunt because that's the only thing they can do to survive. A picture series posted earlier shows a PACK of wolves taking down ONE moose that will surely feed the entire pack for a week or more. :roll:

I'll side with anyone, however, who shares my feelings about wolves attacking dogs in the field! That thought makes me ill, and I feel for anyone who has ever dealt with losing a dog due to a wolf attack! If anything, I think we should sway this conversation towards that.
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Hilts » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:50 am

I just don't think wisconsin is big enough to have wolves period. There isn't enough unsettled land to avoid human/wolf conflict. There is pockets of big timber but animals multiply and disperse. Just because they used to be here isn't reason enough for having them around now. The world is much different now then it was when wolves originally roamed our landscape. There is a lot more people around now a days... right or wrong, it is what it is.

Same goes for the elk herd. They want to drop the number of whitetails in wisconsin because of carrying capacity and yet the are trying to grow an elk herd. How does that make any sense?
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Hodag Hunter » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:10 am

I have been trying to stay away from this thread....but here is my condensed thoughts.

Sam, you know your fish but not so much about wolves. Ever hear of thrill kills? Don't believe every thing the DNR posts about wolf deer consumption.....but do try and reason the wolf only resides in the northern 1/3 of the state (in vast numbers) so comparing car kill numbers, hunter kills and winter kills please don't use state wide numbers for this.

Example think there is the same ratio of wolf vs car kills in bayfield county vs waupaca county?

100% agree with hilts, WI is too small to support a wolf population. If some must stay I say 50 is the max number, and I really don't care what some wolf bioligist says the wolf carrying capacity is. Not here to fight but the wolf is doing it's part diminishing the northern deer herd......very efficiently. Along with yotes, bear on fawns and the surplas of bonus tags given out.

Call me selfesh, but I don't see the need to share our northern woods with the wolf in todays day and age. There is a reason a bounty was placed on these critters years ago......

The wolf/moose pictures are from years ago taken with a chopper over Isle Royale, MI.
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Hodag Hunter » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:21 am

For those interested, pictures from backyard in Rhinelander off one of my first Predator cameras.....yes about 75 yards from the house.

Image

Image
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby PLB » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:49 am

Everyone has his or her opinions, just like the baiting issue. So I don't see any resolution to the wolf problem anytime soon! I'm afraid they are here to stay! And yes Hodag I agree wolves do engage in thrill killing, but the DNR has been having wisconsin hunters doing that in the Northwoods for a long time! 750,000 hunters in this state do way more damage to the deer herd than wolves, vehicles, bears, coyotes, diseases combined! I also think because of the feed bag up there behind every cabin and under every treestand, that poaching is a big problem too! Also deer just don't move like they used to and are more concentrated near cabins and roads. But that's a whole other topic for a later thread. Just my opinions PLB
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Re: Wolves in Northern Wisconsin ?

Unread postby Sam Ubl » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:45 am

Point taken and understood, you're right, car/deer collisions in the northern 1/3 of the state more than likely do rank differently than the southern half, so let me do the math for everyone since I have the data for every county in the state.

Ashland 175
Barron 237
Bayfield 304
Burnett 164
Douglas 207
Florence 103
Forest 193
Iron 53
Langlade 205
Lincoln 239
Oneida 476
Polk 475
Price 266
Rusk 484
Sawyer 91
Taylor 350
Vilas 294
Washburn 348
Wood (NCR) 469
TOTAL 5133

Brown 472
Calumet 169
Door 290
Fond du Lac 524
Green Lake 320
Kewaunee 236
Manitowoc 490
Marinette 516
Marquette 381
Oconto 427
Outagamie 592
Shawano 970
TOTAL 5387
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