Hunting the "thickest, nastiest" stuff you can find?

[dan]

dan wrote:
You seldom see 5 y/o or older bucks moving in daylight outside of a couple hundred yards from there bed.

I'm glade you said seldom instead of never.

There is no such thing as "never" or "always" in the whitetail hunters vocabulary
As hunters the best we can do is go by what they do most of the time...
The thing that most hunters don't seem to get is the significant differances one year of age makes in whitetail behavior. When you seperate a 6 y/o old from a 2 y/o the differances are so staggering they almost seem like two completly different animals.
Each year of life seems to make them that much more a survival machine. Once they hit 4 y/o status they get very hard to kill, once they hit 5 they seem to dissapear.
To many people judge age by rack size also... A 3 y/o buck can make B/C and score near 200 in the wild, but he still makes a lot of mistakes that 4 y/o bucks and older rarly make...

[Buckfever]

"You seldom see 5 y/o or older bucks moving in daylight outside of a couple hundred yards from there bed."

It might be seldom, but as far as what I've seen, you might as well figure it's never and play that hand. IMO

[HelpImStuckInMyTree]

However, a fair amount of big, mature bucks will be bedding in the thickest and nastiest stuff on your property. So, I'd rather leave that for the deer, for him to feel safe, and, continue to use. If you already know there's a good buck bedding in a specific thicket, it's just as easy to hunt funnels, pinch points and breaklines(where the thick stuff meets the open hardwoods), in the area of the thicket.

Welcome to the forum
I dissagree with the quoted statement. I have found that most truly mature bucks, especially pressured ones, do not wander out of there safe zone around there bedding area very often in daylight. Killing them on a regular basis requires getting close to where they bed. Even during the small window of rut, the majority of bucks that cruise and seek does are the 2 and 3 year old bucks. You seldom see 5 y/o or older bucks moving in daylight outside of a couple hundred yards from there bed.

I'll agree with that.

However, apparently I took the "question" in a different context, than you.

If I'm walking into a new property, and, looking to kill a mature buck, the LAST thing I'm going to do is waltz right in to the thickest stuff I can find. I'm going to "work" my way in, as I learn/watch.

Now, if it's a property I hunt consistently, I'll make a move on the bedding areas/thick stuff, as the season progresses/I gain further information on the buck residing within.

For the most part, I prefer to leave these areas alone, and, hunt "around" them. Again, I do work my way closer, but, I'm a strong advocate for leaving some areas untouched. Don't get me wrong; if all of the cards are there; wind, thermals, timing, etc, etc, I'm going for it. I'll push the envelope. However, I hunt generally smaller pieces, so, we're not talking acres and acres of thick, nasty timber, here.

[Zap]

I am not sure how well the "outside-in" approach work's with mature buck's.

JMO, but:
I would think it would be best to get right in after them, and only hunt that spot a few time's a season. Working your way in would leave alot of opportunity for a mature buck to know you have been there, especially on a smaller property.
They will know you have been in the area, and alter travel pattern's/bedding area's or wait until dark to move...it does not take much intrusion to have these thing's happen when you are dealing with older buck's and I believe older doe's behave the same way..

[dan]

If you were only hunting a single small farm I would agree with holding back if you hunt a lot... The farms I do hunt are for the most part pretty small. However I spread myself pretty thin and hunt a lot of public land too.
If I were required to hunt only one 100 acre farm, I personally would still hunt aggressivly, just that I would hunt a lot less. I have tried and seen a lot of formulas on public, private, managed, etc, in vast differences of terrains and habitat, and the only thing that seems to work for "mature" bucks on a consistant basis, is to scout more than you hunt, figure out exactly where the target animals live, wait till everything is perfect and move in and catch them by surprise near there bedding area.
When hunting new ground that I have not spring scouted I have to use what I have learned in other simalar areas and guess on where the mature buck will be. Although I have had decent success using this tech. it has been no where near as consistant as hunting well scouted bucks.
One of my hunting buddys, Andrae D'Aquisto, does quite well on new propertys by walking every bedding area the 1st day he hunts the property and then uses that info to kill them throught the season. I personally like the less aggressive approach of scouting in the spring, but I can't argue with his success.

[<DK>]

bump

[Stanley]

Great topic for discussion. I hunt some of the thickest spots I can find. Really old bucks, I'm talking 8.5 and older just don't move around much at all. They just become stagnant. I think they even become lazy to a degree. That said breeder bucks (2.5 - 5.5) will move around in the thick stuff especially on windy days. Thick stuff on the leeward side of doe bedding can be dynamite during the rut. Throw in some wind and I really like that spot.

[Divergent]

If I'm hunting public I like to be more aggressive. If I've done my post season scouting I should have enough of these sets to stack the odds in my favor. If I fail, I know how much to push in for next year. I don't want to give someone else a chance to kill the same deer because I played it too safe. There's too many variables you can't control on public.

[Hawthorne]

I've scouted some thick stuff in Michigan that's to thick for deer. Only a rabbit would be in it. The deer would use the outskirts of it. The best stuff has a mixture of grass, cat tails, brush,and trees that you can move around in but can't see more than ten yds. A big buck can move around in it also. A lot of my set ups I can't shoot more than 20yds. I don't see many deer but feel it's my best odds for a big one

[<DK>]

Thick areas have certainly increased my shooter buck encounters. Whether that be bedding locations, rut activities or daylight movement in general targeting these areas has become second nature at this point, especially mapping. When everything on the map is the same except these specific spots, its easier to narrow down areas. Whether these areas hold the biggest bucks on the property, I cannot be sure without cams or observations. They do however seem to hold the biggest tracks or bed sizes though. Also, the only time iv experienced bucks fighting were in these specific areas. Choosing secluded ridge points on a map w the thickest cover has yet to let me down. The best parking lot bed I have come across yet has a spot that is literally a bedroom of thickness, inside a thick patch, which is inside a larger thick area w no trees to hunt from. If that makes any sense... I do agree w Dan's words, all that matters is bedding. My favorite part of thick areas though has to be getting in close for a set location! I may only get 8-10ft off the ground, may only have 2-3 shooting lanes but confidence is through the roof!

As stated already, getting into these areas is a tough gig. Finding a good or the right kill tree, good shooting lanes and access is just plain tough. The tip mention about off season trimming sounds like it could help a bit but then the deer start using that trail... I suppose if one planned on shooting them before the ground scent was crossed could be effective? Or saving that access trail for the rut when they seem to make their own trails anyways? I believe someone could master this though... That sounds crazy but if you can manipulate their movements then the future seasons can only get better.

I think this discussion is a situation where some type of intel is most important bc diving into these areas it becomes clear that you have to hunt spots within spots. Dan stated it earlier in this thread - knowing the exact point of bedding or what all is living inside is important bc youre going for broke. One goal this year for me is targeting thick edges leading from bedding to open woods acorn patches. I keep finding tracks so IMO they have to be holding up there until dark thirty.

[MN_DeerHunter]

[quote="dan"][quote]dan wrote:

There is no such thing as "never" or "always" in the whitetail hunters vocabulary

So true, every property and situation is different. From what I can tell the best beast hunters can assess their situation, adapt, and capitalize on the limited opportunities that arise in deer hunting...

[whitetailassasin]

You seldom see 5 y/o or older bucks moving in daylight outside of a couple hundred yards from there bed.

I'm glade you said seldom instead of never.

Your right on about morning hunts...I don't think I've ever seen a truly mature buck cruising in the early AM's...I've seen them dogging a hot doe a few times but never cruising.

On the other hand, I've killed a couple cruising and working scrapes around noon. Seen a hand full of giants cruising at this time of day. Had one buck that Net 246" come by me 70 yards out, at about one o'clock in the after noon. I hunted down wind of a doe bedding area that morning, then moved up into a saddle for the after noon (thats where I seen him)...then I was going to slid down off a point for my evening hunt. I just went to the house instead, because thats where he had came from. A gun hunter killed him the week after I saw him :(

I've seldom see them cruise or chase in the evenings (same as Dan)....all most always have to catch them staging off the beds, even during the rut.

Which sums up how I hunt the rut, in short...doe bedding in the morning, funnels at med day and buck bedding in the evening.

[bowfreak8]

I tend to agree that a lot of mature bucks live in very thick areas. These areas are great for them because they hear you coming long before you ever got close to them.

I do believe that you can use this to your advantage if you know how the deer want to enter and exit the thicket. I have a spot I found last year that has a steep drop on one side and steep rise on the other. The area entering/exiting the bedding is only about 30 yards wide and every deer I see use one trail to get in and out. As long as you have the appropriate wind you are almost guaranteed to have deer close. If you follow that trail into the bedding the it opens up into a maze of trails.

[jbone23]

Make sure you do more that set up on a pocket of super thick. You'll prob see or hear the deer you wanna shoot,but will be too thick to get a shot off. It helps a lot to get in there spring and make lanes or come up with a game plan so you ll have some sort of lane. Nothing more annoying than watching bucks within 20 yards for awhile and never having a shot opportunity.

[johndeere506]

You seldom see 5 y/o or older bucks moving in daylight outside of a couple hundred yards from there bed.

I'm glade you said seldom instead of never.

Your right on about morning hunts...I don't think I've ever seen a truly mature buck cruising in the early AM's...I've seen them dogging a hot doe a few times but never cruising.

On the other hand, I've killed a couple cruising and working scrapes around noon. Seen a hand full of giants cruising at this time of day. Had one buck that Net 246" come by me 70 yards out, at about one o'clock in the after noon. I hunted down wind of a doe bedding area that morning, then moved up into a saddle for the after noon (thats where I seen him)...then I was going to slid down off a point for my evening hunt. I just went to the house instead, because thats where he had came from. A gun hunter killed him the week after I saw him :(

I've seldom see them cruise or chase in the evenings (same as Dan)....all most always have to catch them staging off the beds, even during the rut.

Which sums up how I hunt the rut, in short...doe bedding in the morning, funnels at med day and buck bedding in the evening.

The above sentences are not directly related to the topic, but I think these are some of the most accurate statements Ive ever read here. This is based on MY experiences.

Thanks for highlighting that old post WhitetailAssasin.