Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

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dan
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Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby dan » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:47 pm

Mike, and others who have had to deal with dogs running bears, what can I expect? They are allowing over a month of dog "practice" in the public lands where I hunt. Basically, the month of July. I will only get about a 4 week rest before hunting starts. I wish they would keep dog practice where dog hunting is legal, but thats a whole different topic... My best bait is actually close to a road... We were going to move it back farther but didn't when we had nice bears show up immeaDIATLY... So what will be the lasting effects on dogs chasing the bears off the baits over and over for a month? How much pressure should I expect? My thoughts are that the bears are going to loose that easy going come and go attitude and might stop bedding right next to my baits... Thoughts?


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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby Chris Conroy » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:21 pm

Looking at the regs, training season runs from July 1st to Aug 31st. That leaves 9 days before the actual season opener starts.

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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby dan » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:05 am

Chris Conroy wrote:Looking at the regs, training season runs from July 1st to Aug 31st. That leaves 9 days before the actual season opener starts.

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Wow... maybe we need to kick that pond bait back. I wonder how much pressure to expect?
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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby BassBoysLLP » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:17 am

Dogs don't know boundaries. I can have the bait on private land and still get pictures of dogs. In my opinion, there is limited tangible benefit to having baits on private land if you have dog trainers in the area. It all comes down to location.

I have two bait stations ready if needed for July. Both are swamp islands surrounded by nasty, thick, boggy swamp. Its a pain to bait but the bears do show up with dog pressure.

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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby Bearman13 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:19 am

I had a couple guys from wisconsin here last fall to hunt with me. They also had WI bear tags and had been baiting all summer. Two baits they walked in over a mile. They were on public also. Trempaleau county I believe.

They had big bears and lots of bear on their baits. As soon as the dog runners started they did lose the bears for a few days then they came back. As it came closer to season the hound guys ran harder and harder, they told me more and more guys showed up. They pushed the big bears off the baits and the smaller ones still came in.

They shot a couple average bears they told me later. They said the hound guys would find they're baits and run their dogs right off the baits.

Glad we don't have them here.

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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby olivertractor » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:50 am

Jim Wallner wrote:I had a couple guys from wisconsin here last fall to hunt with me. They also had WI bear tags and had been baiting all summer. Two baits they walked in over a mile. They were on public also. Trempaleau county I believe.

They had big bears and lots of bear on their baits. As soon as the dog runners started they did lose the bears for a few days then they came back. As it came closer to season the hound guys ran harder and harder, they told me more and more guys showed up. They pushed the big bears off the baits and the smaller ones still came in.

They shot a couple average bears they told me later. They said the hound guys would find they're baits and run their dogs right off the baits.

Glad we don't have them here.

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I always shake my head when I see bait sitting guys set up in and around hound country, since up north here there's so many options, for bait sitting guys, other than the more limited options there are for hound guys, and of course there's always a few that wreck it for most. As far as a smaller timeframe of instrusion that's really hard to say, pros are that there will be more foods, up and into kill season, cons definitely concern about too much pressure on individual bears, they'll come back after time for sure, but will change their pattern. Putting the bait back off the road will definitely prevent bears from using the road as much, thus preventing someone running a track.
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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby Chris Conroy » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:28 am

At one time I was one of the guys that ran hounds. I never had bear dogs myself, but had friends that trained their dogs for them. I know that they would get a good strike dog with a cold nose and put him outside the dog box in the bed of the truck. That dog will pick up the scent of the bears that crossed the road or scent blowing in the wind. As soon as that dog sounds off, they will release the dogs on the track. If you can imagine how easily my dogs tracked and treed a 15-20 lb raccoon, just think how easily they can follow a 200+ lb smelly bear. We are hunting on public land so anyone can do as they please as long as they follow the regulations. Dog training season runs from July 1st to August 31st, and it is open in every zone in Wisconsin. The only difference is that dogs can’t be used to hunt during kill season in Zone C, which is where we hunt. Once the training season ends on the 31st, there won’t be any more dog pressure the rest of the season. I too am curious how long it will take for the bears to get back into a routine after it closes.
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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby Mike Foss » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:23 am

Dan...Every area is affected differently. I ran hounds back in the day with friends. My success rate has never changed on County land no matter if hound hunters go first or baiters. Every year they have a training season almost two months long. They might be training the hounds but they are also training the bears. Those bears know what the hounds are all about. For striking purposes the further off the roads you can get, the better. In all the years of guiding I have had only 3 instances where a hunter had hounds chasing by and even stopped and sniffed around the bait only for that hunter to shoot a bear later on in the same day. Like I said areas can differ...bears can be chased out of big sections only to return later at night past shooting hours or the next day. Do not leave your stand if you have hounds go threw your area, odds are there's more than one bear hitting your baits. The hounds don't always tree a bear. For the bait stations that you have already established and are thinking about moving I wouldn't be to concerned, even if you moved them a 1/2 mile away, those bears visiting the ones now, will find them. Still plenty of time. Hunt hard and be patient.
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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby dan » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:30 am

Thanks Mike...
For the bait stations that you have already established and are thinking about moving I wouldn't be to concerned, even if you moved them a 1/2 mile away, those bears visiting the ones now, will find them. Still plenty of time. Hunt hard and be patient.

You lost me here... Are you saying you would move the bait back? or leave it be? I scouted this with an aerial and saw a spot about a 1/4 mile deeper that connected to the same thick area but does not look as swampy as where the bait is now...
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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby BassBoysLLP » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:29 am

dan wrote:Thanks Mike...
For the bait stations that you have already established and are thinking about moving I wouldn't be to concerned, even if you moved them a 1/2 mile away, those bears visiting the ones now, will find them. Still plenty of time. Hunt hard and be patient.

You lost me here... Are you saying you would move the bait back? or leave it be? I scouted this with an aerial and saw a spot about a 1/4 mile deeper that connected to the same thick area but does not look as swampy as where the bait is now...


Bait both and keep the best one. :mrgreen:
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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby Mike Foss » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:17 am

Move your bait back deeper, the same bears will find your new bait station in no time.
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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby mjk » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:04 am

Mike is correct in regards to hound hunting. We run the same bears off the same baits all training season. We have even harvested a bear in the morning, and then harvested a bear off the same bait that same afternoon. Quite honestly the dog effect is minimal.

We do have the same issues as most with bears not hitting the baits. We have 30 baits, and at times we only have one or two baits hit overnight.

As far as big bears, there are times that we have had them hit at midday during harvest with the bait less than 100 yards from a road, and this is with all kinds of activity, and a number of chases going on at the same time from multiple hunting groups. The popular thought is that the hound hunters scare the bears away. Think of it this way, if the bears did not come back to the bait regularly, we would not have any bears to run. We would have scared them all away.

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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby dan » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:52 am

mjk wrote:Mike is correct in regards to hound hunting. We run the same bears off the same baits all training season. We have even harvested a bear in the morning, and then harvested a bear off the same bait that same afternoon. Quite honestly the dog effect is minimal.

We do have the same issues as most with bears not hitting the baits. We have 30 baits, and at times we only have one or two baits hit overnight.

As far as big bears, there are times that we have had them hit at midday during harvest with the bait less than 100 yards from a road, and this is with all kinds of activity, and a number of chases going on at the same time from multiple hunting groups. The popular thought is that the hound hunters scare the bears away. Think of it this way, if the bears did not come back to the bait regularly, we would not have any bears to run. We would have scared them all away.

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Sounds great in theory... But, I have seen plenty of really big bears hit everyday till the hunter bumps him, or the hunter wanders off the bait trail to set up a stand or walks behind the bait to set up a camera... Sure, the little ones come back, and sometimes the big ones do too, but I have seen enough not come back to have a hard time swallowing that dogs have no impact.
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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby dan » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:54 am

Mike Foss wrote:Move your bait back deeper, the same bears will find your new bait station in no time.

I was thinking about putting the new deeper one out and leaving the one by the road till the bears show up on the camera at the deeper one... At this station I put out 10 gallons a week and its gone in two or three days.
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Re: Dealing with dogs... Mike Foss and others?

Unread postby mjk » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:22 pm

Well Dan let me ask you this, why do the big bears continue to hit the baits after getting chased by dogs during training season? Sometimes they may not hit everyday, but then again they may not hit everyday before training season starts.

The point that I was making is that hounds seem to be the favorite excuse of baitsitters when the big bears quit hitting a bait. Why do many of the big bears quit hitting baits regularly in Minnesota where no dogs are allowed?

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