More of a deer management question-what about minerals?

[cornfedkiller]

Here are a couple articles..Im not doubting that trophy rock is preferred by deer over plain salt, but these articles discuss the claims by all the mineral companies that you can grow bigger antlers with mineral supplements..

Here is an article by QDMA.'s leading biologist Brian Murphy, If anyone would write an article that supported using mineral supplements it would be him since his employer (QDMA) generates alot of advertising $$$$
from companies that produce mineral supplements on their TV show and their Magazine.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""A classic study on the mineral needs of deer was conducted at Penn State University in the 1950s. In this study, researchers did detect a difference in yearling buck antler development between supplemented and unsupplemented groups. However, these herds were fed a nutritionally deficient diet below what most whitetails would have access to in the wild. Furthermore, when the same deer were examined the following year as 2.5 year olds, no differences were detected between the two groups.

In a similar study conducted at Auburn University, researchers tried to detect differences in body and antler size between an unsupplemented and supplemented group. This study differed from the Penn State study in that both herds were fed a nutritionally complete diet. In addition, one group was provided a commercial mineral supplement. Over a four year period the researchers were unable to detect any differences between the two deer herds.

Without question deer need minerals, and they will readily use mineral licks. But why do they use these licks and why is their use restricted primarily to the spring and summer? Many hunters believe that it is simply because bucks need the minerals for antler growth and does for raising fawns during these months. However, several studies have shown that while deer readily use mineral licks high in salt, they rarely, if ever, use pure mineral supplements. If deer were lacking minerals, why wouldn't they use the pure mineral supplement even if salt wasn't present? No one can say for sure, but it's probably because most minerals by themselves are bitter.
Could the use of salt/mineral mixes simply be due to an increased need for salt? According to research, yes. During the spring and summer, deer operate at a sodium deficiency due to the high potassium and water content of the forage. This interferes with efficient sodium conversion in the body and increases the need for sodium. This makes deer actively seek out concentrated sources of sodium such as natural or man?made licks. Almost all soils more than 25/50 miles from a seacoast are low in sodium. Therefore, in these areas, salt may be just as necessary as calcium and phosphorus to whitetails during the spring and summer."""""""""""""""""""""'""""""""""""""""""""



Here is what CJ. Winand said in an article on this subject, who by the way is not only a well respected biologist but the editor of Bowhunter mag.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""Over the last several decades, biologists at Universities across the country have researched the effects mineral supplementation has on a bucks' rack. In most cases, they put deer in two pens. In one pen, the deer were feed their regular diet. In the other, the deer ate a mineral in addition to their regular diet. After a few years in most studies, researchers did not see a noticeable difference. Many biologists bring up the research every time a hunter brings up minerals. C.J. Winand, a biologist from Maryland, believes that minerals are hocus pocus. "All of the data available today says that mineral supplementation doesn't have a lasting impact on antler size. Research is being done regularly and until I see a study that shows that minerals help deer grow larger racks, I will continue to believe what I believe," Winand explained."""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" "

[Mike]

I'm saying I try everything and it appears to draw more bucks in, I understand what its made of but I don't care about ingredients or price over attractiveness. It not a fact, just my experiences from last year, which surprised me actually, because of the similarities in ingredients.

I have heard of people doing the same tests as you and having similar results. The only thing I can think of is that maybe because it looks more natural, deer are more attracted to it? Thats the only thing that would make any sense since all else is basically equal (people told me the rock was preferred over those brown mineral blocks as well, which has the same mineral makeup as the rock)

The other thing is that you are putting all those items near each other, the deer come in, and go to the rock, but what if the rock was left out of the equation..I would assume the deer would still come to the spot, but would choose something else to get their salt. By that theory, Im guessing Im getting just as many pics with my salt as I would with the rock. I just cant see spending $20 on some salt to put out, especially when I like to have 5 or 6 mineral sites on my property. For that price, I can put in a couple food plots, which I guarantee do more for herd health than mineral supplements.

The sites without rocks got visited by deer, I just got more mature bucks at the sites with it. This was for this years results, hardly conclusive but I will test it out for a few years to see if it matters, never had enough cameras to notice a difference before.

There is some difference between the rock and mineral blocks, the form of some of the minerals is different. Don't know if you are familiar with the argument of sea salt vs refined salt for human health, or whole food supplements vs synthetic. Basically even though the actual minerals may be the same, the form is different (chelated or organic vs inorganic). In other words, nature gets it right and when we try to copy synthetically it doesn't measure up. Don't know if I buy it 100% but thats the only thing I can think of as to why they would prefer one over the other

I don't know any of it will help grow antlers but I know they like it. I like to go over the top on stuff sometimes, I have had up to 6 mineral sites on 40 acres, but knocked it back to 4 last year

[BackWoodsHunter]

Any idea what is in trophy rock not in regular wildlife blocks? I think I will buy a few of the plain old mineral rocks and crush them up with a sledge and get them in the ground. Would mixing in a form of sugar or something else that is sweet like a concentrated liquid or something draw in the deer better to a salt lick? Maybe trophy rock appeals to their sweet tooth a bit????

[Hodag Hunter]

I used to pour liquid molassis on the mineral licks but in the north woods it was a major bear attractant.

[U.P. MAN]

Have had great luck with the lone wolf mineral.It was developed for whitetail and elk farms. All they do is try and grow bigger racks. Must be something to it

[Wrinkleneck]

Well I know my area really well and what the deer herd holds for potential rack size over the past several years. I started using Lucky Buck year round as they recommend 5 years ago and have GREAT results from increased rack size. I don't want to get into a big pissing match about it, this is just from my personal experience from using Lucky Buck Minerals. So for me I will continue to use Lucky Buck Mineral!!

[blackwolf]

I agree with Wrinkleneck. When it was legal in Wis. I used the high phosphorus and calcium cattle mineral blocks for many years and although not a scientific study, I sure liked what results I saw.

[U.P. MAN]

I used lucky buck until i got the lone wolf. I had great results with it also.

[PASwamper]

I think you'd have to feed them a lot more than minerals to actually have an impact. And I haven't really researched it much but I think the limiting factor in most cases wouldn't be the minerals, although I think there is an argument to be made that more available minerals during a bucks antler developement period would give the buck a better chance of optimizing antler growth. I put out stuff I buy at the local feed store; some salt, feed, and molasses. It attracts them to the camera and is relatively cheap. I'm not expecting them to grow amazing racks because of it though. I was going to add rice bran and bi calcium phosphate but can't justify the price.

[blackwolf]

I think many places have soil low in phosphorous and calciun. Some research has shown phosphorous to be especially beneficial in antler growth. If the soil is rich in minerals, like Buffalo Cty, Wi it probably doesn't make much difference but in areas with less rich soils and northern areas where the winters are more stressful, I think it adds a boost to get them going in the spring. An early spring with a wet spring and summer are most beneficial as the animals are able to bring in more nutrients when they need it so they can add excess to more horn growth with body growth requiring first dibbs. The mineral blocks can add to that initial "boost" and in N. Wis I am amazed the way they crave them. Interesting that in an area of N Minn they didn't seem to go after them as vigourously. Makes me think the mineral content in the N Minn area was better to brgin with causing less a craving for the artificial source. Just my thoughts with some scientific basis.

[cornfedkiller]

More information:

Referenced from White-tailed deer antler growth and physiology
By Matt Ross, Whitetail Stewards, Inc.

Mineral requirements for antler growth
Mineral requirements for antler growth exceed those of normal skeletal growth and maintenance (studies have shown that deer are constantly undergoing skeleton rebuilding). In some species, antler requirements for minerals may be 3 times as high as that required to maintain the skeleton. Mineral demand for antler growth is satisfied from both the diet and from bone resorption.

Where do deer get the calcium and phosphorus needed for growing antlers?
Diet provides the greatest proportion of calcium and phosphorus for antler growth and mineralization. However, antler growth will never exceed genetic potential, even if a deer consumes these elements above optimum levels. During times of peak antler growth, antler demand for minerals forces the thyroid gland to release calcitonin; this hormone allows the deer to "steal" minerals from its internal bone structure. This process is known as "physiological" or "temporary" osteoporosis. Bones such as the ribs and shoulder blades contribute the most to this temporary mineral deficiency, and they may lose as much as 40% of their calcium content while antlers are hardening. However, by September, deer can fully replace the minerals borrowed from their skeleton.

Antler composition and physiology
Composition of growing (soft) antlers in velvet (Spring/Summer):

Velvet antlers are High in water and Low in dry matter:

20% dry matter & minerals: 80% crude protein, 20% ash (22% calcium and 11% phosphorus)

80% organic material (water, etc.)



Composition of hard & polished antlers (Fall/Winter):

Hard antlers are Low in water and High in dry matter:

60% dry matter & minerals: 40-45% crude protein, 54-60% ash (25-40% calcium and 19% phosphorus)

40% organic material (water, etc.)

[publiclandhunter]

A lot of good conjuecture here on this subject. I use the licks where legal and use only the red trace blocks - seem to work fine for the purpose of attracting deer for pics during the summer. My 2-cents on the antler development due to antler blocks/supplementation....I may offend some here....I apologize in advance for it...but here goes.

When you look at the ratio of how much consumption of mineral vs. natural feed goes into a deer's body, the feed itself has way more to do with antler development than the few grams of supplement that a buck may ingest in a week/month. Also think of the natural tendency of a deer/animal to want to consume water after eating "salt" and the more fluids that a deer consumes, the less feed that it can pack into its stomach. Think of the popular "human" weight loss plans that encourage a large consumption of water to curb appetite and stimulate weight loss - which is opposite of what you want in a buck's diet regimen. We want them to eat more - not less.

Now, I will state that genetics is the foremost factor, age is the second factor, nutrition third (you could argue to swap the last two in order) and I wouldn't even place mineral supplementation on the list. I know people who want to grow huge muscles at the gym and weight train and consume large amounts of protein and still aren't Schwarzenneger....why? Genetically they weren't born to be huge and no amount of supplementation will alter that. I honestly feel that when it comes to wild deer in a non-controlled environment....it is the same rule. So, if you want good pics of developing bucks...mineral works good. If you want to help develop bigger and healthier bucks....plant food plots for year-round feed.

PLH

[U.P. MAN]

Very interesting publiclandhunter. Some good points made,especially about year round foodplots. Year round nutritional food may be the single best thing you can do for your deer. I cant think of the guy and may not have the outfitter right, but i think its the owner of fair chase outfitters in se minnesota,(im piggy backed to my phone here at home so cant go check easily) but i heard him say on an episode of Driven that the single biggest factor hes found for large antlered deer is age. If they get old enough not alot else matters. That statement could be debated for months! But interesting coming from a successful outfitter none the less!