TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Post topo’s and Aerial photos for free advice. Food plotting, land manipulation, water holes, ect.
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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:11 am

KLEMZ wrote:backstraps, your questions have started alot of great discussions on the forum. thanks!

Dan, thanks for that thoughtful response. The advice to target the spots that cover the primary wind directions first makes alot of sense. Thinking back to my spring scouting this year I now realize I wasted some of my very limited scouting time looking for "off winds" hill beds at the expense of not even checking out some prime looking prevailing winds terrain. Live and learn.

I should mention, sometimes in the areas that are great for prevailing winds, there will only be one or two decent spots for an opposite wind, like "East" in this case... Knowing those well can sometimes be better than knowing all the primarys because the buck will still want to bed in his area, but will likely choose to bed in the East wind bedding spot... I wouldn't waste much time with it though if there were a lot o0f east options.


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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby backstraps » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:16 am

Thanks KLEMZ...sometimes I worry about posting so many questions. :)

Dan thanks for your insight.
On the example you used...I have a couple questions.

I agree the large areas of topo can be very confusing to me when trying to locate hunting sites.

Was the area in your example randomly chosen or because it had more potential bedding areas than other portions of the map? I was curious because your example could be accessed from the lower rock road and could be hunted day by day getting farther from the truck each sit....rather than my example wouldve been walking by other potential bedding areas.

I understand the thoughts concerning hunting an area and if not successful then let it rest for a month. In an example like the one you used...should the hunter return in a month and move on to the bedding just north of the three black dots?

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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby Autumn Ninja » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:32 am

dan wrote:
The Beast only focuses on bedding and you are spot on with possible bedding locations.
Not really true... We focus mostly on the bedding. This is because the bucks are going to head in a certain direction when they leave the bed, and we can't really say with a lot of certainty which direction that will be... That takes some scouting. There are certain land features that promote travel more than others, but it is still up to the hunter to have pre-scouted the area to determine the travel direction, or scouted the day he is going to hunt.
My bad. :oops:

Thats rights man!!!!

I knew you would get around to marking it for him when you got the time and I hate spinning my wheels.
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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:17 am

Was the area in your example randomly chosen or because it had more potential bedding areas than other portions of the map? I was curious because your example could be accessed from the lower rock road and could be hunted day by day getting farther from the truck each sit....rather than my example wouldve been walking by other potential bedding areas.


The example I chose, was chosen because it had good bedding examples for both West and South winds... Whether or not you burn bridges or hunt a spot on your way to a particular spot should probably be determined by how many spots you have, and how much time you have. If your going to be hunting there for several hunts, you would likely want to hunt your way in... If your there for a few days you might want to bump the other beds on the 1st day and stack the area you intend to hunt...


I understand the thoughts concerning hunting an area and if not successful then let it rest for a month. In an example like the one you used...should the hunter return in a month and move on to the bedding just north of the three black dots?

If your hunting a different bedding area that you have not disturbed, you don't have to wait a month... By hunting certain bedding areas and burning those bridges, there will be less spots for the bucks to bed and feel safe. In this secenario, every hunt might increase your odds. But the longer one of the beds remains unhunted, the more your odds go back down.
This is what we call stacking. It has worked well for me when I know an area well, and I know a buck is bedding in the area due to a sighting or picture. Systematically hunt each one of the spots till you either kill the buck or burn all the bridges. The faster the better, cause some bucks will change patterns and you want the spots you hunted to not be used after you hunted them... In this case there are sometimes some beds that are very hard to hunt based on there exact location. I generally hard bump those beds to get the buck to locate to one of the beds I have not hunted yet.
There is a catch 22 though... You could bump him right off the huntable property...
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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby backstraps » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:01 am

Stacking the bedding areas is something I want to try. I had given it thought on some of the bedding areas that I cant get to and hunt due to not having a good access. Maybe bump that particular bedding area to the next bedding.

Okay, so something I have given a lot of thought to and cannot get my hand around....
you have mentioned many times, you dont like to cross trails, and especially do not let you wind blow towards bedding.

On your example,
Lets say I was going to hunt the three black spots one at a time, bottom first. I would assume these areas are all evening hunts since they are strange unscouted land.

How would you access your stand sites, with the wind coming from the east? I ask because I can see the first stand site, access is not a problem. Stand site two, middle black dot would you come up the ravine to the west and cross the top directly west of the middle black dot? I am curious about my scent being carried by the prevailing wind
Last edited by backstraps on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby backstraps » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:32 am

"Not really true... We focus mostly on the bedding. This is because the bucks are going to head in a certain direction when they leave the bed, and we can't really say with a lot of certainty which direction that will be... That takes some scouting. There are certain land features that promote travel more than others, but it is still up to the hunter to have pre-scouted the area to determine the travel direction, or scouted the day he is going to hunt.
If you look at this map, I have marked three spots in black. Those are potential hunting spots. A lot of the time bucks will follow the same elevation as there bedding and can be cut off at the tops of draws or just out of sight, or around the bend from bedding... [glow=red]During the season, in new hunting locations, keeping the wind in mind (not allowing it to go from me to the bed ) I may scout by circling the bedding area from a distance looking for fresh sign coming out. If found "lets say" South of the bed, a trail leading from the bed going south, with buck sign on it, I would slide up and set a stand about where I marked... I would scout, and hunt the least damaging directions 1st...[/glow] As you can see, you may do some bumping by scouting to the north... That is not always bad, but not always good either... The hardest bucks for me are the ones that drop down into the valleys... If you hunt in the valley the thermals usually give your location away, and if your across the valley and out of sight of the bed, the mature bucks often won't travel that far in daylight, especially outside of the rut. Sometimes, in some situations, I have seen success by getting below as soon as the thermal direction changes."



Dan I like this idea. However, could you explain a little more on how you scout in season? Particulary
"circling the bedding from a distance" in releation to the example you used above.

If I am studying the example correctly, and was planning on hunting the first three black dots, am I wrong to assume I would need to STAY OUT the valley just east of the three black sites? I guess, I am asking how far away do I need to circle? :)
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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:59 am

Dan I like this idea. However, could you explain a little more on how you scout in season? Particulary
"circling the bedding from a distance" in releation to the example you used above.

If I am studying the example correctly, and was planning on hunting the first three black dots, am I wrong to assume I would need to STAY OUT the valley just east of the three black sites? I guess, I am asking how far away do I need to circle? :)

I would say you need to stay far enough away to be out of sight and sound, but close enough that the sign is relevant.
I posted an example. The yellow line might represent the scouting I might do... However, if you look close, my wind is going to hit the upper bedding if I take that full rought. Thats why its better to have this stuff pre-scouted, so you know what looks best, exactly where to set up, and what your willing to jeopardize. In the case of the map we are taking an educated guess..
I would start the yellow line at the bottom, (least intrusive) and scout my way up. If you find sign, hunt it and don't go past it once your scent is crossing the trail.
Most often, I do find sign on the same elevation along the ridge or at the top of an ajoining draw. so thats likely where I would end up if scouting during season... Off season scouting would of told me exactly where to go...


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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby backstraps » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:57 pm

Okay I understand what you are saying now. Your yellow line route , on the opposite side of the valley, scouting along the west facing ridge is what I thought you meant originally.

So when you are looking for sign coming out of the beds near where the black dot stand sites are... what type of sign would DAN be looking for? Tracks, fresh rubs, etc?
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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:22 pm

what type of sign would DAN be looking for? Tracks, fresh rubs, etc?

Just a trail that looks freshly used. If you look close, even on hard ground you can usually make out some fresh tracks or feces. Rubs are a bonus, but not totally needed.
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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby backstraps » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:29 pm

:D

I cant wait to post season scout this year !!!!

Here is a funny little story. Since I began reading all over the Beast site, taking notes, studying maps, bugging the crap out of everyone on here ( ;) ) with all my questions...

I have checked out some public ground around me that typically I wouldnt hunt. Low deer density, very low harvest stats, etc.....im actually considering hunting some of this public ground around me in the Cherokee Nat Forest!!! Its been a lot of fun, searching maps for ideas, then going to these HUGE tracts of untouched forest lands and finding buck sign using Beast methods.
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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby backstraps » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:58 am

dan wrote:
KLEMZ wrote:backstraps, your questions have started alot of great discussions on the forum. thanks!

Dan, thanks for that thoughtful response. The advice to target the spots that cover the primary wind directions first makes alot of sense. Thinking back to my spring scouting this year I now realize I wasted some of my very limited scouting time looking for "off winds" hill beds at the expense of not even checking out some prime looking prevailing winds terrain. Live and learn.

I should mention, sometimes in the areas that are great for prevailing winds, there will only be one or two decent spots for an opposite wind, like "East" in this case... Knowing those well can sometimes be better than knowing all the primarys because the buck will still want to bed in his area, but will likely choose to bed in the East wind bedding spot... I wouldn't waste much time with it though if there were a lot o0f east options.



Dan, thanks and that is some good advice! I have been there hunting when an East Wind happens. It is usually accompanied by a rain storm. On those days the guys in camp have a tough time seeing deer.

After reading this post you made Monday, I have been thinking how many different places I hunt up there and should be looking into for the "out of normal" wind directions bedding areas.
:D
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Re: TUTORIAL DISCUSSION!! STEP BY STEP PLEASE

Unread postby Stanley » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:56 am

Great thread for all to read.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.


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