Key to success on managed private land...

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Beason
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Beason » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:56 pm

ttt

...after seeing Bill Winke kill that 200" buck "g4"


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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:02 pm

jack_4mn wrote:ttt

...after seeing Bill Winke kill that 200" buck "g4"

Winke owns 1000 acres of very low pressure ground surrounded by big parcels (4000 +) of low pressure ground. In Iowa 1000 acres is huge with his ground positioned where it is, that would be considered monumental in size and super low pressure.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:57 am

dan wrote:The key in having a small property work is to have the best food, the best bedding, and the least pressure.


In Super-Pressure areas, the key to holding mature bucks is having the best bedding and the least amount of hunting pressure. These two requisites trump all else, in my view. Having the best food can be an enhancement, and hold the bucks when they make a mistake on your property (daytime movement outside of their staging area). It makes a lot of sense to have food sources on your hunting property that the bucks desire for those rare occasions where they roll out. Sometimes a hot doe will mess everything up...

I owned a small property in a Super-Pressure area that outside my fence was crawling with hunters, from October 1st through December 31st- the entire Michigan deer season. It was bordered on the west by an Interstate and its fence, but the rest of the 55 acres was essentially the middle of the section. I had it fenced, and heavily posted. I had to patrol it constantly, and could not keep everyone out despite living there. However, most hunters that snuck on had no chance of killing the mature buck or two the property held every fall... they didn't have the skill or knowledge of the bedding areas. Despite these challenges, the property was relatively free of human scent and had good bedding thickets along the Interstate and a couple of thickets on the interior areas. In an area that most bucks never made it to their second birthday, I had 12" diameter trees getting rubbed "tall."

For the most part, 99 days out of a hundred these bucks barely moved during the daytime, confining their movement to just before dark and remaining inside their staging area / thicket near their bed. A few times a year, these bucks would make a mistake and exit my property for a doe or the neighbor's alfalfa field. I would get a phone call from a friend on November 3rd, for example, that he was glassing a 17 point in my neighbor's field with a couple of does that were feeding at one in the afternoon during a moderate rain... but what were the odds that you would be on stand THAT day, at THAT time, on those other properties with terrible hunting conditions? As always, you would be much better off hunting buck staging areas near those buck beds. If the bucks did not adhere to this very restricted movement, they were killed by the hoardes of hunters waiting outside their security zones. With Super-Pressure in this area, the buck to doe ratio was ridiculous... the bucks had all the does they wanted without going anywhere. I almost always saw twenty deer per hunt, even in December.

Enhancing the property with some excellent food sources would have made a lot of sense, as it may have held them a day or two during those few times where they "wandered" off my property. Again, I am talking about daytime movement- a buck getting poached after dark or hit by a car is something beyond our control.

Give me the best bedding and the least amount of hunting pressure / human scent- I'll take it everytime!
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Bucky » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:57 am

SB is 100% correct in my experience. Food plots are often a waste of $$$ unless you have mature buck bedding on or bordering the property. They (foodplots) are most effective to hunt Dec 20th through the close of season with the intent to kill a mature buck on purpose hunting near or on them. In order for the food source to last into the winter time it has to be a winter appropriate food source and have enough acreage to still be productive. Usually at least 0.5 acres but more typically 1-2+

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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:50 am

I want to add that I was never under any illusion that the mature bucks only bedded on my property... they obviously bedded elsewhere at times. But I have no doubt that my property was the preferred bedding zone for a long, long distance around where the bucks could escape the masses.
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby dan » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:29 am

Say what you want about food sources, but I know for a fact I have been pulling a couple mature bucks onto my property because of my food sources. Especially late season after the snow, but also rut when the does are hitting the food.
Giving them security and less pressure is more important than food, but give them everything and they might just stay put on your property.
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby huntinfool14 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:41 am

very good topic...

on my property, i have really good food sources year around, excellent water, and good bedding. Usually get a 4 yr old and many 2-3 yr olds around every year. My BIGGEST problem is neighbors! How do you convince a guy to pass on at least 2 yr olds? He shot the biggest buck we have ever had down by our property, he only owns a few small acres, just happens to be in a very good spot. I have talked to him for 5 yrs now and he never changes! I could have opportunity at 150" bucks and better every year but with him hunting and his sons on 6 acres, its next to impossible. it would be different if he shot 1 buck and was done, but with earn-a-buck, he'll go out and shoot 5-6 2 yr old bucks a year..is there anything i can do different?? i plant food plots around him, try and steer the deer different directions, it all helps, but doesnt cure the problem! any advice?
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Bucky » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:03 am

Huntin... get out the check book! Haha

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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:20 am

dan wrote:Say what you want about food sources, but I know for a fact I have been pulling a couple mature bucks onto my property because of my food sources. Especially late season after the snow, but also rut when the does are hitting the food.
Giving them security and less pressure is more important than food, but give them everything and they might just stay put on your property.


Sage advice Dan, your success speaks volumes.

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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Brandon » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:28 am

I started hunting 300 acres of private the past 2 season. Up until that time, its been 100% public.

My neighbor is a rich guy who put in over 500 yards or food plots for all year. They pull the deer, and some bucks follow but I had the biggest on my property... to my knowledge. I know someone who hunts there... they wounded some nice bucks, but they could have all been 2.5 8's for all I know... nothing huge.

Its all about bedding... and have SOME food unless you want to dump $$$ in the dirt. Im not a food plot guy, I just try to kill an old buck in his natural environment. I know they live there... therefore I can kill them.

Finding a hiding spot for a buck like a swamp, thicket, blowdowns, marsh, ect will usually produce. By produce I mean there is a mature buck in all those spots in my area of MD. Most of my buddies that kill them are close to beds (even if they dont realize it) maybe by swamps mostly, or large hills (not many... but large hillsides seem to hold an old boy).

Bottom line is you need the woods.... sure, you can improve them but im not rushing to hingcut trees for bedding, or plant food all over. Ill scout likley bedding areas, and use cams to see whats going on while waiting for a good time to try and kill. I dont have much time to hunt.... so burning the spot can happen to me unless I really screw up.

Im still learning, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Bucky » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:30 am

I disagree with Dan, food plot and low pressure will not get a 4yr old to bed on your property. Food plot and minimal cover may work if you have a large piece of property. But in most of heavily pressured areas of WI you have to have cover to have decent bucks. The more the better (the more bucks you can potentially hold)

You HAVE to HAVE a mature buck bedding area with some cover to have huntable mature bucks - otherwise you are hoping they slip up by chasing a doe, or you catch them searching, or early in the season when hunting pressure has been minimal for months

Now if you have bedding cover, water, and you throw a food plot within a couple hundred acres of that mature buck bedding area you are in business to hold and grow huntable 4yr deer as long as a neighbor does not zap them at 2yrs of age

My experience is such areas as above produce year after year as well. Even if you kill the mature buck that was occupying the bedding area
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby dan » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:53 am

huntinfool14 wrote:very good topic...

on my property, i have really good food sources year around, excellent water, and good bedding. Usually get a 4 yr old and many 2-3 yr olds around every year. My BIGGEST problem is neighbors! How do you convince a guy to pass on at least 2 yr olds? He shot the biggest buck we have ever had down by our property, he only owns a few small acres, just happens to be in a very good spot. I have talked to him for 5 yrs now and he never changes! I could have opportunity at 150" bucks and better every year but with him hunting and his sons on 6 acres, its next to impossible. it would be different if he shot 1 buck and was done, but with earn-a-buck, he'll go out and shoot 5-6 2 yr old bucks a year..is there anything i can do different?? i plant food plots around him, try and steer the deer different directions, it all helps, but doesnt cure the problem! any advice?

Its surprising to me, that he is killing that many of your bucks on such a small property. I would think the pressure from him hunting would keep them on your side... Are you on your property too much? I would like to see the layout. Can you post a aerial and mark your ground and his?
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby huntinfool14 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:06 pm

yes, i could post a layout, not exactly sure how to. I have come up with solutions to make the deer not go on his land, but in my opinion, its not really ethical. I can hunt nearly 900 acres around him, but his little 6 acres is in the absolute perfect spot that the deer cruise. Its and oak ridge they cross to go from 1 major bedding to another. They currently have 4 permanent rifle stands no more than 1 foot off the property line, and every year i get the phone call "shot a buck, went on your side, can i get it? and on the flipside, i never touch my woods for thats my "sancuarys". Yes i hunt the property alot, but i feel with that many acres and about 30 stand spots, i dont even get to hunt(or have time) to hunt that many setups every year.
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby dan » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:33 am

Bucky wrote:I disagree with Dan, food plot and low pressure will not get a 4yr old to bed on your property. Food plot and minimal cover may work if you have a large piece of property. But in most of heavily pressured areas of WI you have to have cover to have decent bucks. The more the better (the more bucks you can potentially hold)

You HAVE to HAVE a mature buck bedding area with some cover to have huntable mature bucks - otherwise you are hoping they slip up by chasing a doe, or you catch them searching, or early in the season when hunting pressure has been minimal for months

Now if you have bedding cover, water, and you throw a food plot within a couple hundred acres of that mature buck bedding area you are in business to hold and grow huntable 4yr deer as long as a neighbor does not zap them at 2yrs of age

My experience is such areas as above produce year after year as well. Even if you kill the mature buck that was occupying the bedding area

I don't know what your disagreeing about... It sounds to me like we both agree.... 1) Secure bedding 2) Low Pressure 3) Quality food / water... In that order.
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Re: Key to success on managed private land...

Unread postby Bucky » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:41 am

I don't believe a food plot and low pressure on any chunk of ground will hold bucks is what I was saying. If 400 acres... Yes. I think too many people think a food plot is an easy way to kill better bucks... It CAN be, but location of bedding cover is more critical. I'd rather hunt public with mature buck bedding than a marginal cover piece of ground in a pressured area with a food plot.

I agree with your last statement 100%... secure bedding, then pressure, then food/water

When I'm looking for a new spot, bedding cover trumps all... The rest can be added or fixed

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