Spinning my wheels in hill country…

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WIswampdweller20
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Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby WIswampdweller20 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:33 pm

I sought help on this subject in the public land hunting section, but no bites for several days now…so hopefully persistence pays off. Essentially, I came up hunting swamps, but I feel I’ve gained a handle on scouting and hunting hills when I can see a clear distinction in terms of inclines and elevation. However, on a recent trip I struggled when the terrain was more varied and the sign and deer sightings were conflicting with the guidelines I was attempting to observe. I brushed up on beast tactics for the hills before heading to this area and was determined to find Mr Boones living in that top third, but was met with some major frustrations when nothing panned out to be that cut and dry. There are some massive hills in the area, but I also encountered benches that run several acres deep as well as large rolling meadows in the bottoms which in some place very gradually eased up in elevation and in others are quite sheer. Then the meadows themselves have random potholes or small ravines with dense ground cover within them that were confirmed to be holding mature bucks during daylight hours. To further complicate matters not all areas or elevations were accessible, given park restrictions or private lands. I know there is a healthy population of mature bucks in this area and I’m determined to make the most of my limited time as it is a considerable distance to travel. I need to increase my confidence in my approach and eliminate that inner turmoil that plagued me on the basis that I feared being duped by the sign and making common blunders. I had a set of guidelines that just didn’t seem to fit. Was I wrong, or is there a way to identify on a more micro level when to adopt the stereotypical hill tactics and when it’s ok to deviate.


Here is my original post if anyone needs more intel:


Just returned from a short south central WI trip in an area with hill country where I attempted to I apply some of the insights I’ve gained over the last year or so of educating myself on beast tactics. As my username implies I’m more in my element in the swamps up here in NE WI along the bay so traveling presents a pretty sharp learning curve at times. The one recurring obstacle I encountered was in deciphering the mixed terrain, grey areas if you will, with ridges and large meadows interspersed with smaller pothole ravines and gradually tapering saddles. I made it my mantra on this trip to stay out of the bottom, but in some places I couldn’t, by way of thermals or the sign, distinguish whether these areas constituted that stereotypical bottom or if at some point it transitioned out of that format. For instance, I set up up on a funnel that was essentially a very drawn out, gradually tapering, point off of a ridge into some thick marsh and cedars, after failing to locate bedding or travel routes anywhere on the top 1/3 of the incline in that section. Furthermore the ridge continued on to achieve several hundred more feet in elevation, but again very gradual over multiple successions, like several acre deep terraces and then in some sections very steep all at once. Unfortunately some of the higher elevation was not public so I’m dealing with an incomplete picture, but am still determined to get handle on what I can access. Long story short, I did see bucks pushing does through this set and believe a shooter moved through just out of sight at last light. So essentially I was conflicted, because I was breaking the rules in some sense, but all the indicators I had at my disposal pointed to it and the deer confirmed it to some degree. Perhaps rut made this misleading, and I’d have been in a better position up on the incline for a mature animal, but the travel paths and thermals, or lack thereof, favored the set up I found. If anyone can help me out with what deciding factors to use to determine what rules apply to the less “black and white” terrain features it would be greatly appreciated.‬


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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby greenhorndave » Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:11 pm

I don’t have any answers for you because I feel lost in some of the hills I’ve been in, but what I’ve seen is that not all of the properties are created equal.

Sometimes all the sign is where you expect it, other times it’s not. Are there little feaures or bluffs in areas not revealed on topos? Other little small transitions like you mentioned. These things can be great if they offer a deer distinct advantages to being there.

In some of those cases where the sign is not in the stereotypical areas, there’s often people sign. I’m thinking of one property in particular where the best bedding and sign was set up to nail the people pressure on the predominant winds and/or the easy access. They had a visual on the easy access from private and all the public had to come from upwind due to the way the property laid out, Unless you took a vey unorthodox way of access, but then risked bumping satellite deer and still getting picked off visually. In those cases when the pressure is high, you almost have to hunt the pressure and not the prototypical terrain features. I think of that rundown from James this year in the Kill Zone. Take a look at it, as he scored in an unconventional spot that made perfect sense for the deer, not for us humans.

Like I said, I’m interested in the responses too, but those are just my observations of being a relative rookie in hill country too.
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby Jackson Marsh » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:25 pm

Deer/bucks have tendencies not rules. Bottoms are hard to hunt in the hills but not always impossible. I follow the tendencies in the hills but do not to a letter. Sometimes slightly windward can be the spot to be. It just depends.
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby James » Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:45 pm

So many factors to consider based on your descriptions. It would be easier to study a hybrid topo/aerial to really give you the best answers.

Hunting the top 1/3 is the best way to start. Your wind will be cleaner and more manageable. However what do those too 1/3s look like? Are they all airplane woods with no high stem count areas? Typically you can count on finding some S facing slopes that will have some cover for bedding.

Are the food sources on the tops, bottoms or both? How are you accessing things? In dry conditions like we’ve had it’s easy to blow deer out from a long ways off if you’re not careful with your approach.

Some initial thought starters
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby greenhorndave » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:29 pm

A good podcast from Dan and Joe that dropped today right on this very topic...

viewtopic.php?f=295&t=60358
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby WIswampdweller20 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:52 am

greenhorndave wrote:I don’t have any answers for you because I feel lost in some of the hills I’ve been in, but what I’ve seen is that not all of the properties are created equal.

Sometimes all the sign is where you expect it, other times it’s not. Are there little feaures or bluffs in areas not revealed on topos? Other little small transitions like you mentioned. These things can be great if they offer a deer distinct advantages to being there.

In some of those cases where the sign is not in the stereotypical areas, there’s often people sign. I’m thinking of one property in particular where the best bedding and sign was set up to nail the people pressure on the predominant winds and/or the easy access. They had a visual on the easy access from private and all the public had to come from upwind due to the way the property laid out, Unless you took a vey unorthodox way of access, but then risked bumping satellite deer and still getting picked off visually. In those cases when the pressure is high, you almost have to hunt the pressure and not the prototypical terrain features. I think of that rundown from James this year in the Kill Zone. Take a look at it, as he scored in an unconventional spot that made perfect sense for the deer, not for us humans.

Like I said, I’m interested in the responses too, but those are just my observations of being a relative rookie in hill country too.



The people perspective is intriguing, after years of hunting exclusively public, I feel I’ve adopted an automatic accounting for this on more of a subconscious level, but I think you’re correct and it would be wise to make a more deliberate evaluation. Might have to print of a map and mark it up like the old days! Thanks!
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby WIswampdweller20 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:58 am

Jackson Marsh wrote:Deer/bucks have tendencies not rules. Bottoms are hard to hunt in the hills but not always impossible. I follow the tendencies in the hills but do not to a letter. Sometimes slightly windward can be the spot to be. It just depends.


Thanks! As much I know this to be true, I’m afflicted with one of those overly analytical brains. Own worst enemy. I have to feel
like my heads around it to at least a small degree or my confidence goes down the drain.
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby WIswampdweller20 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:14 am

James wrote:So many factors to consider based on your descriptions. It would be easier to study a hybrid topo/aerial to really give you the best answers.

Hunting the top 1/3 is the best way to start. Your wind will be cleaner and more manageable. However what do those too 1/3s look like? Are they all airplane woods with no high stem count areas? Typically you can count on finding some S facing slopes that will have some cover for bedding.

Are the food sources on the tops, bottoms or both? How are you accessing things? In dry conditions like we’ve had it’s easy to blow deer out from a long ways off if you’re not careful with your approach.

Some initial thought starters


Thanks James, I pm’d you a map. Hopefully we can keep the discussion going here and just reference it for anyone else interested. Wasn’t brave enough to post it for all to see. In this particular section, the very top 1/3 is a considerable distance away (better part of a mile) given the gradual slope and large deep terracing. As you can see from the map, it’s for lack of better terms a “feathery” section, but there are some more distinct elevation changes here and there. The big ridge is also off limits to hunting, so there’s that, but I’ve been on it and its predominantly hardwoods with rocky outcroppings. As for food, there are the hardwoods/edges and a bit of ag to the south east and fairly constant ag bordering to the west. Lots of dense vegetation in the meadows and draws surrounding it as well. I kept the milkweed flying throughout my approach when scouting and setting up where you can see the stand icon and thermals were not an issue I had a light but steady NW wind and despite the S facing slight incline on that funnel, my wind kept steadily to the southeast all day. I know that rut factors in as well as it was more of a traffic flow hunt, but would be very interested to know if it’s worthwhile in a patternable movement sense.
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby WIswampdweller20 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:14 am

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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby WIswampdweller20 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:51 am

greenhorndave wrote:A good podcast from Dan and Joe that dropped today right on this very topic...

viewtopic.php?f=295&t=60358



Thanks! Just listened- that’s right on time! I guess Dan hit the nail on the head for this topic with the comment about the vagueness of whitetail tendencies. Would seem I need to work on open mindedness. I do think that’s easier to do based on boots-on-the-ground experience, so I’m interested in hearing what others have to say.
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby brkissl82 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:46 pm

I also got my but handed to me in hill country this yr. I hunted a lot of leeward sides looking for cruisers. Do deer like to run long straight ridges or more finger type points? Also do cow pastures bother the deer?
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby brkissl82 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:48 pm

I also noticed the deer came up from the bottoms of the hills using 1 side of the cut or the other
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby brancher147 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:45 am

There is no set guidelines for hill country. Or anywhere. Local patterns and terrain/habitat/pressure are highly variable and affect how deer use the landscape. I just got back from a hill country trip to SE Ohio and must admit I went with a set guideline of what to look for and it took me two days to get the set guidelines out of my head and start picking up on what the deer were doing. Turns out there were multiple variables I had not taken into account. Biggest thing I learned is keep an open mind and don’t rush it-pay attention to small things and what the sign is telling you and don’t try to fit it into your planned expectations but take it for what it is.
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Re: Spinning my wheels in hill country…

Unread postby WIswampdweller20 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:27 am

brancher147 wrote:There is no set guidelines for hill country. Or anywhere. Local patterns and terrain/habitat/pressure are highly variable and affect how deer use the landscape. I just got back from a hill country trip to SE Ohio and must admit I went with a set guideline of what to look for and it took me two days to get the set guidelines out of my head and start picking up on what the deer were doing. Turns out there were multiple variables I had not taken into account. Biggest thing I learned is keep an open mind and don’t rush it-pay attention to small things and what the sign is telling you and don’t try to fit it into your planned expectations but take it for what it is.


Well said…sounds like the same boat for sure. I’m coming around to understand that open minded- follow the deer approach. I get so much info whirling and conflicting, my ears start to smoke and I’m ready to walk back to the truck and take up crocheting. To make matters even worse, I have buddies that pick the most random, unappealing spots and shoot giants. It can be maddening, but…you gotta love it.


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